<p>This topic was prompted by the discussion going on in the SAT scores thread. I too am very disappointed in our public school, even though it is rated "excellent" and is a blue ribbon school (makes me think of 4-H). I am frustrated because I have participated in school improvement committees, the PTA, etc. over the years, and educators listen to my concerns and then go blithely on their way following their state-imposed procedures, reluctant or unable to do anything innovative. I homeschooled my son for a time, but we were in a situation where he did his homeschooling in an isolated environment, and we eventually put him back in the public school system. Now we are located in the exurbs of a city where most homeschoolers are more conservative than we are, so we haven't pursued it here either. My question to the parents is, if you could design the perfect school for your child, what would it look like? I would eliminate standardized testing entirely. There would be no AP and no IB. I would hire teachers who are very talented and very excited about learning. They would be "facilitators" who provide the children with their expertise and the resources to learn and then encourage them to think and explore and create. The curriculum would be Great Books, classic, but with a huge creative component and lots of room for independent projects. I wish I could blow up the present education bureaucracy and put my system in place. What does your perfect school look like?</p>
<p>Interesting question. Our school district is finally meeting the needs of more advanced students so I have to say I'm thrilled they're up to 10 AP courses available, it used to be far fewer. We have terribly mediocre SAT scores (under 1000 combined) but the range goes up to 1600. At the other end, we have a fair number of students who are barely literate. I don't think they'd be served by a Great Books approach. It would be nice to have smaller classes and more individualization, but considering the amount of money the community is willing to pay divided by the number of pupils served, I'm fairly well satisified. I do feel it's the kids in the middle who are least served. Our schools have listened to parents to keep the more able students from leaving for private schools, and the special education kids get tremendous attention. I'm glad they do track all academic subjects now, they didn't always, and at the high school level that's ridiculous. As far as the physical plant, we could sure use a more spacious building with natural light, but the taxpayers won't go for it.</p>
<p>While I am very cynical about the public school system ever "reforming" itself, I do see several trends which give me hope. </p>
<p>One is the trend for more charter schools. These could focus more on specialized areas for a particular kind of student. Some could be more academic, some more trades oriented etc. </p>
<p>Another trend is for a home school/public school mix. Our school system offers a home school program where they will support a student learning at home and then also allow them to come in to the public school for certain classes if they like.</p>
<p>Another trend is distance/online learning. I think that this trend may grow. Excellent courses could be taught live online . Math lends itself to this possibility as does a few other subjects. I think it would be hard to teach biology online but other courses can be taught that way. My D took several online courses and generally enjoyed them. These were live courses with students all over the world. One was AP World History.</p>
<p>As for a perfect school. There isn't such a thing because every student is different. The quandary our public schools have is that they are forced to use a factory, one-size-fits-all system to teach a huge variety of learning styles and learning abilities.</p>
<p>I don't think there should be a foreign language requirement, either in high school or to apply to college. At the very least, I think students should have more choices than French [France=fading power in Europe] or Spanish. I could see more validity to learning Indian or some Chinese dialect, as India and China are probably the world's next two super powers. [And the US is like Rome, lol. I've got to read "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed"]<br>
I also think after sophomore year kids should be able to specialize and take basically all math/science or all social sciences courses.</p>
<p>Great idea about more choices of worth while - on a global scale - foreign languages - and they should start teaching them in kindergarten, too. Speaking here as an American, I believe the dearth of truly good foreign language education.</p>
<p>And of course, who wouldn't agree with your requirement, pattykk?
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I would hire teachers who are very talented and very excited about learning. They would be "facilitators" who provide the children with their expertise and the resources to learn and then encourage them to think and explore and create.
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</p>
<p>Blumini, while I live in a rural area with small public schools, I must say that our elementary school is very good (actually another Blue Ribbon school, lol) and it values learning foreign language at a young age and thus French is taught beginning in kindergarten. Due to such a strong beginning in French when young, my kids eventually skipped levels in French when in high school. Starting young is the way to go with a language.
Susan</p>
<p>Your children our truly fortunate to have had this foreign language opportunity! Good for your school district! My own started out in a private school that offered French and Spanish at kindergarten, too...unfortunately when she switched schools it all went down hill as their idea of middle school Spanish was truly pathetic...:( Hope springs eternal!</p>
<p>Why would you be excited that your child learned French? I consider my kid's years of French a waste of time.<br>
And I need to correct my last post: I don't think they speak "Indian" in India, but what they speak, I know not.</p>
<p>Agree with Blumini about starting foreign language instruction early in elementary school. Waiting until middle school is too late. There was a study done years ago and I seem to recall that the ability to learn language fluently or proficiently is greatly enhanced if one learns it before adolescence. So it seems to me to be a waste of time to have a language requirement at all, unless you treat it like math & reading and begin instruction early.</p>
<p>Heidi...first of all, French was the only foreign language taught at the elementary school level (starting in middle school, gr. 7, Spanish is the other option). So, for one thing, I am grateful that our elementary school has a philosophy of starting foreign language ITSELF at a young age. Most studies point to this being the best time to learn a foreign language. I was not emphasizing FRENCH per se. Nonetheless, I have nothing against French. I think what is important here is learning a second language. Yes, you could argue that Spanish might be the language to learn in the current world picture or here in the US. Then again, in our location, we are not an area where there is a Hispanic culture and in fact, we are an area close to French Quebec. But none of that is truly my personal reason, just commenting. When my kids got to seventh grade (when middle school commences here), we never considered switching to Spanish (some kids did) because they had already been immersed in studying French since kindergarten and so wanted to continue. While one might argue that Spanish could be more useful, I think the important thing is to be able to speak a second language. Often when one learns a foreign language like French, it is easier to pick up the next language like Spanish. Right now, however, that is not on my mind. </p>
<p>My oldest child loves French. It was perhaps her favorite class in high school, though not an area she wishes to major in. She skipped in high school in French and completed French V in 11th grade and then did a 2 on 1 indep. study in French 6 in senior year. She has opted to continue French in college (not required at her college) and has placed out of several levels. She would like to study abroad and also has an interest in traveling in France. She has been to France twice and found her ability with the language to come in handy, including a family stay where she found herself being the interpreter quite a bit. One trip she was on, she was the only kid or adult on the trip who had any proficiency with French and the group relied on her quite a bit. So, in her case, she has a passion for French, has used it so far, and has chosen to continue on the college level. My second child also excels at French. I don't know if she will continue in college as she is entering a specialized degree program. She hopes to study abroad and even if not in France, I think it might be handy to have knowledge of a European language when abroad. I have no qualms that my kids stuck with French. Their early learning in the language was beneficial and both accelerated in high school by skipping levels, in part due to the strength of coming out of an elementary school that had a strong start with French.
Susan</p>
<p>soozievt</p>
<p>My friends that live in Montreal (English speaking) send their children to French grammar schools, even though they are not required to by law, because (I believe) the child's grandmother speaks English as a first language. In this way the children learn French at school and English at home. When they get to high school age they switch to the English schools (mostly private). These children are truly bilingual.</p>
<p>I find that the Calvert School in Baltimore to be a great model for K-8 education. And anyone can order their homeschooling kits which have been used and are still used widely for a top grade, thorough run through grammar school. </p>
<p>I've not tried to revamp the schools as I find that even small victories in changing things are had to come by. Even ideas that have no downside other than changing the status quo and knocking out those doing that way, do not readily get used. I am jumping on S's prepschool and the little ones' elemenatry school as we speak, and they drag their feet and come up with every absurd answer under the sun. They don't want to change.</p>
<p>I'm probably the world's biggest advocate for homeschooling who has never been able to homeschool. The problem for most of us is that there is no one to stay home, we need the school for a babysitter. I think JVD is describing an almost perfect school situation. Kids need to write more, and do less busywork. They need room to grow at their own pace and clear expectations. This fits so well into the thread about boys and second children. My son would love learning so much more if he wasn't in school, if he didn't have to "perform". He can learn just fine, he can help at home and learn to do so many things; he can't keep up with his assignments unless reminded, he doesn't care what grades he makes, and he needs different incentives to practice his skills (math andwriting,especially). He needs some vocational education, both for confidence building and to explore careers. He needs responsiblities that he can fulfill - real things like he gets in Boy Scouts (if you don't check the food box, the raccoons steal your supper) not did you remember to cut that article our of the papaer and leave on the teacher's desk?</p>
<p>A word about foreign languages...</p>
<p>Someone once told me that there were literally hundreds of languages spoken in India. One positive (maybe the only one?) legacy of British colonialism was that the people of India had a common language (English). A teacher of Gaelic once told her class, when students were lamenting that the British had nearly wiped out the Irish native tongue, that they had at least given them the chance to air their complaints in a language the world understood. </p>
<p>I cannot believe that anyone anywhere considers any language unworthy of study. Close your mind if you insist, but to say that studying French is a waste of time makes me choke on my Freedom fries. Schools can only offer the languages they find qualified teachers for.</p>
<p>I would change the tenure system so that a teacher couldn't get it for 5 years and (SOMEHOW) make it easier to kick out badly perfoming teachers. I would like to make parents more accountable for students misbehavior or find a way to get those kids that disrupt class out of class. Our middle school seems to paint all the kids with the same "bad kids" paintbrush. Five kids start a food fight in the lunchroom, all the kids get assigned seats. One kid breaks stuff in a lab, no more labs.</p>
<p>As to languages, I like the idea of languages being taught early but we had that in our school district and it didn't work. We had Spanish starting in 1st grade 3 days a week. This happened until 5th grade and they started middle school. Unfortunately, we had a very bad Spanish teacher in my kids school, they learned NOTHING except to dislike Spanish and to think learning any foreign language would probably not be fun. That program just died when the teacher left the district. In middle school (6th grade) kids can choose between French, German and Spanish. That's also 3 days a week and after three years they take a test to see if they're ready for the second official year of their chosen language (Spanish II, French II, etc.) in 9th grade. Parents are starting to really question of this watered down instruction and many would like it taught 5 days a week in 8th grade.</p>
<p>Just FYI, the official national language of India is Hindi, which has evolved from, and is based on Sanskrit; There are 18 official languages in India, and each probably has many dozen dialects, plus there are some states that have their own language, and tribes with their own lang.
Many Indians are bi-lingual, some speaking English + Hindi, and some Hindi + another dialect, yet others, Hindi + their state language.</p>
<p>Kathie, like you, I never liked the system where if one kid does something wrong, everyone in the class has to "pay". Lots of resentment can swell in that system. </p>
<p>But now that I read your examples....thought you might "like" this one from my daughter's ninth grade Honors English class....The teacher had something against yawning in class. If someone yawned (which for the record, I don't see as misbehaving!), the ENTIRE class had to run a mile outside. My D hated that (though she is an athlete) and in fact, sometimes had on Birkenstocks or clogs, not suitable for running. Well, don't get me started on this teacher but I thought I'd leave ya with one example.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion ;-).
Susan</p>
<p>I would like for there to be no more 'Group Projects', cause I have had it up to here with the slacker kids who pull down the group grade, and the teachers who say "well, that's life".</p>
<p>Chocoholic, people in South India speak English and their own language - Tamil, Telugu, Kannara and Malayali..if you're Indian ignore.</p>
<p>yup, that's why i said some people speak English + state language.
:)</p>