Performance v Ed Music Major

College Majors Music Major
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<p>I am a highschool student researching music school programs for the far, yet so close future haha. I have been told that my first decision should be choosing whether to pick a Music Ed focus or a Music Performance focus. If I am deciding to go straight for performance I might be able to look at some upper level conservatories. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of prestigous music schools that are great with Music Ed majors, however, my private instructors and music teachers have expressed that my skills for music are above the average student musician and I could probably get into some upper level conservatories that are extremely select and prestigious. </p>

<p>I believe I would be a great music teacher, education in other areas is my fall back if music fails me. However I do want to be able to get into a good opera program for my graduate training, as well as recieve strong performance skills in my undergrad work. Would Music Education supply training in Music Performance as well as education, and prepare me enough to get into a grad program for opera performance? Or should I stick with Performance and recieve the intense training? </p>

<p>Also is it possible to teach music without having a specific Music Ed Major, and if you could, what are some schools famous for music education as well as strong music performance departments, or music ed programs that are well known for their performance emphasis within the program?</p>

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<p>You could do a performance major for undergrad, then later if you decide you’d like to teach you could get a graduate degree in music ed, with certification. Also, one top level conservatory that offers both music performance and music ed is Eastman. Many performance majors end up adding the ed degree, and many ed students end up adding performance–especially in voice. At Eastman the voice music ed students are in the same studios as the performance majors, perform in the same ensembles and recitals, and have the same opportunities to audition for opera. There really is no separation between the two. Music Ed students are just busier, with the added education courses. If you get the double major at Eastman, you can apply for a tuition-free semester to do student teaching.</p>

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<p>Before deciding whether or not to study Music Ed, ask yourself how much you would enjoy making a career out of teaching K-12 students. If that really gets you excited, then you should certainly consider that field. If you are just looking at it as a backup plan if the performance option does not pan out, please reconsider. Directing a chorus of 7-year olds of whom half have not yet learned to match pitch, or trying to get a 13-year old boy to sing at all is not everyone’s cup of tea.</p>

<p>I have known too many teachers who were first and foremost frustrated performers. They quickly got tired of the grind and the politics involved and became bitter about the whole situation. That became evident in the classroom and was not at all fair to their students.</p>

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<p>D is at NYU as a vocal performance major. NYU just introduced a new program that gives her the option of getting her BM in vocal performance, followed by a MA in Music Ed all in 5 years. She would have had to start some of the ed sequence by jr year, but would have still taken all the same VP classes. She was intrigued by the program, but wanted to pursue a more business-oriented minor instead.</p>

<p>One of the biggest differences I see at NYU and have heard about at other programs as well, is based on who will be giving voice lessons. The Vocal Performance majors get the most experienced faculty members…the Music ed majors may find themselves with the newest voice teachers or grad students.</p>

<p>If D decides to teach…not an immediate goal…but a possiblility down the road…she will go back for a masters in Music Ed. There are many options in which the degree can be achieved in 1 year if you attend summer classes.</p>

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<p>Just remember this, the BMed degree generally certifies you to teach but you can also perform if you can play well enough. The BM performance degree certifies you to do nothing, and if you can play well enough then maybe you can get a job as a performer, of course if you are good enough you can perform without a college degree at all.</p>

<p>To me the ed degree seems like a no brainer, there is no down side to it. The difference between a performance degree and a ed degree is really just one semester of student teaching and about 5-6 ed classes, not that big of a deal, so why not? Sure, you could always go to grad school and get that ed degree, but you can always go to grad school to get that performance degree also.</p>

<p>The other huge advantage of the ed degree is that not only does it certify you to teach music k-12, it also qualifies you for a heck of a lot of private sector non-music jobs. Many great paying business jobs requires people who are able to train and give presentations, I cant imagine that there is a better major for honing teaching and presentation skills than education.</p>

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<p>Some things to consider…</p>

<p>Don’t go into Mus.Ed if you are only considering it as a fall-back if music “fails” you. (If anything, an inspiring, successful k-12 music teacher is anything but a “failed” musician…)</p>

<p>The extra required classes are a PITA if you do not TRULY want to be there. Those extra general education courses will eat into your time. Not saying it can’t be done…but from observing the Mus.Ed students at my own school, I have to say they are extraordinarily busy. This is normally a five-year degree and you will need to undergo teacher cert tests, etc…
Is it a handy degree? Yes. But the last thing kids need is a teacher who is only doing it because “it’s a job”. Second, if you go into k-12 teaching full time, do not expect to get a lot of practice hours or gigs in. Some will disagree with me on this, but as someone who is friends with a few music teachers and has some in the family, I can tell you the hours are long and the job is very demanding.</p>

<p>You don’t need a piece of paper to tell people you can perform. Only your abilities can determine that, regardless of undergrad or grad experience. Many musicians have undergrad degrees in non-music or non-Performance fields. In my humble opinion, if you love it enough, you will find a way to make music a huge part of your life and make things work, regardless of your degree. Which is another reason why considering such a rigorous thing as Mus.Ed degree as a backup plan seems a little silly to me.</p>

<p>Do look into all the different programs…if you want to go the Mus.Ed route, as has been said there are options available for joint degrees at different schools.</p>

<p>If you want to teach k-12, a Mus.Ed degree is a must. As I understand, it’s also pretty competitive. Don’t think a Mus.Ed is a sure-fire shot at an immediate job. Many public school teachers have their Masters +. </p>

<p>If you want to teach privately, a Mus.Ed degree is not needed. If you want to teach in a college, you’ll need your Doctorate.</p>

<p>I just want to reiterate that teaching in the K-12 system is a different sort of beast, and requires someone who has always wanted to be there. Can you imagine yourself standing alone before 30+ middle schoolers trying to get them to settle down and learn, or directing a choir from perhaps less than enthusiastic prepubescent kids? Putting up with the myriad imperfections of the public school system? I’ve also known many teachers who left to follow their hearts and get Performance degrees because they found out it wasn’t right for them, or became too frustrated with the way in which things were run…never to return to a K-12 classroom. Which is a crying shame for the kids, really, but also tells you that your degree does not have an iron grip on your future…</p>

<p>I used to be a Music Education Major because I, too, thought it would be easier to get a job, but after some serious thinking, I decided I didn’t want to go into such a large amount of debt for something I wasn’t totally invested in…nor did I wish to sit through all those non-music classes when I’d rather be practicing.</p>

<p>So, I switched to a BA in music, which in my opinion is handier for me personally than a BM undergrad in Performance. At my school I get to study with the same fine teacher who has the BM students in his studio, and I can elect to take all the same courses the Performance people do. In fact, at many schools there is little difference between a BM and a BA, aside from some more diverse courses on the BA’s part (which I like).</p>

<p>I plan to get my MM, but the BA at least will qualify me for a lot more than a BM might should I need to take on another job in the interim (likely). DMA holders with BAs have told me the academic emphasis that comes with a BA degree was looked upon favourably by their respective DMA programs (even those which focused on performance). Once again, it’s the audition that matters, not the type of degree.</p>

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<p>imagep,</p>

<p>There are downsides at some schools where the Music Ed majors may not get lessons with the best teachers or may not be allowed into the best ensembles, even if they are better than any of the performance majors.</p>

<p>In addition to the teaching and the 5-6 education classes, Music Ed majors often have very specific distribution requirements in Math, Sciences, Psych, Literature, History and various other classes that are not required of performance majors. Having to take these classes could be a big downside for some.</p>

<p>Also, Music Ed majors on the instrumental track are expected to learn how to play a lot of different instruments at a basic level. This can sometimes interfere with the development on your main instrument, for example playing brass instruments or oboe may be rough on a flute player’s embouchure or learning to play bass may not be best for a violinist.</p>

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<p>Another thing to consider is when do you want to begin your teaching career?</p>

<p>If you know that upon graduation from college that you want your next step to be into the classroom as a music teacher, then by all means pursue that Music Ed degree as an undergraduate.</p>

<p>However if there are other career paths you may want to pursue and you might not enter teaching for another 5 years or so, you better make sure that you will be able to grandfather your student teaching/ practicum and credits towards your certification.</p>

<p>In some states you will only have a limited number of years to complete the certification process, without having to re-do testing/ or student teaching. In which case you would probably have to pursue your master’s anyway in order to teach.</p>

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<p>I was not aware of that - its something that we need to check out. At at least one of the schools that my son has applied for their website only lists one teacher for each instrument, so I assumed that everyone who declares a “primary” instrument would get the same instructor for that instrument. I can see how that may be an issue at some of the larger schools though. My S will be doing his first college audition this weekend (an all day event including placement testing), and the college is going to have tours and presentations, it will be a good opportunity for us to find out more about that issue.</p>

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<p>That may be at some schools, particularly conservatories, but at all 4 colleges my son applied for, all music majors have the same base “general education” requirements. And at all 4 colleges all music majors have identical “core music” requirements - the programs really do not deviate except for the concentration areas. I do understand that it could be an issue though at some colleges.</p>

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<p>I can see how that could be an issue also for people who only have an interest in one instrument. I totally understand the embouchure issue as I have seen my S struggling to get used to a new mouthpiece. But would it be boring to spend 4+++ years in college only learning once instrument?</p>

<p>In my sons case, one of the things that he is really excited about is the opportunity of taking classes in all instruments. He plays trumpet (primary instrument), piano, guitar and violin, and he feels that he is a better musician (overall) because he has taken lessons on more than one instrument. I would also think that being able to play more than one instrument would have some value in most any music career outside of the symphony field. </p>

<p>One of the things that I cant quite wrap my head around is that at three of the colleges he has applied at the class time that you are expected to learn “all brass” or “all woodwind” or all “string” instruments is just one two hour class, “repeatable once for credit”. Were talking just a couple of weeks on each instrument. Doesn’t seem to me that is enough time to even be on the “basic” level, let alone enough training to be able to adequate teach “all” instruments. But what do I know, I cant even play the radio.</p>

<p>Here’s my take on the music performance thing:</p>

<p>One reality that music majors need to realize is that although their first choice in careers may be as performers, jobs for performers are few and far between. They really need to face the reality that while there are certainly plenty of jobs in the music field to go around, most of the jobs are not in performance. Someone who only studies music and one instrument for 4+ year in college, if he turns out to not be one of the most amazing performers ever, has really limited his marketability in other music areas. </p>

<p>If I owned a music business, and I had a job for someone to work within the music field, but not as a performer, I would obviously prefer a music major to a non-music major for that job, but I would likely prefer someone with a more rounded music education over someone who was a performance major and who had very little skills other than performance. </p>

<p>I am not trying to be arguementative, but potential music majors need to step back from what they “want to do” and take a realistic view of where the jobs are. Most of us have something that we would love to do for a profession, but we end up doing something different because there just arent enough jobs in that field. </p>

<p>I know that people on this forum are “down” (in a negative way) on the idea of a “backup plan”, but it just seems logical, practical, and realistic, when you consider that their are far fewer performance jobs in the music field than their are “music related” jobs.</p>

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<p>As an undergrad, vocalist D had considered the music ed option. She was discouraged from this track by her teacher. (for many of the reasons already mentioned on previous posts)
She is about to finish her MM in performance and is currently teaching part time in a private middle school, as well as a well regarded performing arts school. In addition she has already received offers from her former high school and two other private schools. In our state, as well as many others, if she wants to teach she only needs to have her grad degree and pass a required test. I wouldn’t consider people on this forum as “down” on the idea of music ed, but I think that the collective experience here points to more than one path to a “backup plan.”</p>

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<p>The teacher issue is not only a concern at large schools. Sometimes the performance majors get the well-known faculty member on their instrument and the music ed majors get a grad student or possibly an adjunct who may not get listed on the web site because they may change from semester to semester. You have to watch out for this everywhere. It is very important to know who your principal applied teacher will be before sending in your deposit check. Some schools want you to commit before they tell you who your teacher will be. Best not to let them do that.</p>

<p>Sometimes, the distribution requirements are a condition set by the state for obtaining a teaching license in that state. Most times, the curriculum at the school will include any courses that are required by the state in which they are located, but maybe not always. You may find that additional classes would be required before obtaining a license from a different state. Again, something else to watch out for and realize that the requirements change from state to state.</p>

<p>Some performance majors (and many teachers) take the view that there is only time for one instrument in a lifetime. They are not bored by spending all of their time on their chosen instrument. Others study a second or even third instrument picked to be compatible with their main instrument. The ones who would be bored by studying only one instrument have opportunity to pick up another. Music Ed majors on the instrumental track, however, have to learn to play many different instruments and some of them can hamper development on their primary instrument. Then there is the issue of finding time to practice them all. As you point out, being able to double or even triple is a good skill to have, but the instruments have to be chosen carefully and it is hard to find time to maintain mastery in more than one. I have heard lots of pit orchestras that were forced to use doublers because of economic constraints and it was usually pretty easy to tell when someone was not playing their primary instrument.</p>

<p>Concerning the practicality of a performance degree, might I suggest that you read [Peabody</a> Institute - Conservatory Admissions: What Can You Do With a Music Degree?](<a href=“http://peabody.jhu.edu/789]Peabody”>http://peabody.jhu.edu/789) if you have not already done so?</p>

<p>I will not dispute the need for a backup plan, but I do not think that plan should be music ed in most cases. I have seen too many people who have done just that and turned into the kind of music teacher that no child (or adult for that matter) should have.</p>

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<p>Just to point something out that seems like it was missed, the OP said “I believe I would be a great music teacher”.</p>

<p>I don’t know why anyone would want to discourage someone who thinks that they would be “great” as something from doing it. </p>

<p>The OP also said “my private instructors and music teachers have expressed that my skills for music are above the average student musician”. We don’t know how much “above average”. Half of all people are “above average”, thats really not telling us much.</p>

<p>Is it not possible that performance could be the backup plan and teaching could be the primary focus since the OP is more confident about his/her ability to teach than to perform? Would there be any harm in obtaining that music ed degree first since the OP expressed that he/she would be a great teacher and then going for the performance degree in graduate school?</p>

<p>The OP also asked if music ed majors recieved any performance training and I am not sure if anyone directly addressed that questions. From what I have seen, reviewing college catalogs and course descriptions, I believe the answer to that question to be “yes”. From what I have seen, all music majors have to take a certain amount of master classes or private lessons on their primary instrument, which I assume for the OP would be voice.</p>

<p>My best advice would be for the OP to spend a good bit of time on the websites of several colleges and/or conservatories looking at the curriculum. Most larger colleges will have a list of class requirements on their site and most will have a college catalog pdf which they can download. The college catalog will give course descriptions which is handy when the list of courses required for each major just has something like MUS-262 listed with no discription.</p>

<p>I just randomly googled “University of Minnesota Music” (which by the way is not one of the schools that my son is considering) and found this: </p>

<p><a href=“Music | College of Liberal Arts”>Music | College of Liberal Arts;

<p>Its pretty typical of music ed programs with a concentration in Voice, and is fairly well organized. The sections entitled “Applied” are the private/master lessons. There is approximately 1 years worth of classes (34 hrs) that are specific to the education part of the degree, and 12 hours of that is student teaching.</p>

<p>The only significant difference between the Music Ed Voice and the Music Performance Voice degrees is that the Performance degree has one more semester of the applied music class and several foreign language classes and foreign language dictation classes instead of the 34 hours of education classes. Personally, I wouldnt want to do the foreign lanquage classes but I am sure they would be invaluable in the OP’s desired field of Opera.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it’s so much that people here are “down” on music ed or on a backup plan. It’s more that we value music education so highly that we only want to encourage people who really want to work in that field to pursue it. No one wants a teacher who is only biding their time until their performance career takes off! (Mr Holland’s Opus aside.)</p>

<p>At one school D3 visited last year, the [only] teacher for her instrument explained in a group info session that performance majors were allotted hour long lessons, while music ed students were allotted half hour slots. (In fairness, she also said that she personally teaches everyone for an hour in defiance of university policy because she doesn’t believe that music ed people are less important.) So this is an issue worth investigating.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it is so much discouragement as it is wanting the student to be sure of what they are getting into. “I believe I would be a great music teacher” is all well and good, but only if the person saying that understands what it means. Students oftentimes do not see what goes on outside of the classroom in the world of teaching. They may not realize how hard it is to do what they see going on in the classroom day after day and year after year. If teaching really is plan A and the student is interested in teaching K-12 in a public school system, then by all means music ed is the way to go. In that case, the best option could be a public school in the state where they live or where they want to teach if that is different from where they live. If teaching is really plan B and the student has no idea of what the life of a music teacher is like, they need to do some serious research before spending four or five years and upwards of $200K earning a BME from a conservatory or private school.</p>

<p>As I have pointed out, I believe there are potential drawbacks for someone who is mostly interested in performance starting out with a music ed degree: the possibility of having worse teachers, the possibility of participating in worse ensembles, the near certainty of having less time to practice their primary instrument, and the likelihood having to use electives to take state-mandated courses for which they have little interest or aptitude.</p>

<p>I think that the music ed major is perfect for some students and very wrong for others. Saying that it has no downside may well be true for your child, but it is not true for everyone.</p>

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<p>Stradmom,</p>

<p>I understand and fully respect that many posters want to make sure that only the “best” music students study music. But what I dont get is why anyone would want to discourage someone from studying music ed (which the OP clearly stated) when that person is fully confident about their ability to teach, and possibly less confident in their performance skills.</p>

<p>What I get out of the OP’s post was that “I know that I can be a great teacher, and my music teacher thinks I could be a great performer, so which way should I go”. I would think that anyone who is that confident in their ability to teach SHOULD teach. The OP did refer to teaching as a backup plan, but I truely felt like the OP was being pushed into performance by his/her teacher even though that was not a field in which the OP was as confident in.</p>

<p>Personally, I would think that the CC community would be more encouraging as to what people are confident in, rather than steering them into something that they are not so confident about.</p>

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<p>Bassdad…agree!</p>

<p>All music majors tend to need to take the same core music classes, and then have a concentration. For music ed majors, they then take the additional education classes and education requirements plus a practicum. Music ed is essentially similar to a double major. (Music + Ed)</p>

<p>But that is not the only way to go. As a performance major who came into college with AP credits, D has been able to pursue two minors in addition to her music requirements as long as she takes 18 credits per semester.</p>

<p>This has allowed her to take a minor in the Business of Entertainment, Media and Technology which offers her marketing, music business, film, theatre and producing classes. Additionally, she is taking an English minor.</p>

<p>These classes have made her marketable if she chooses to go the music/ theatre/ film business route. Today she actually had an interview for a paid-internship with a major entertainment company with offices in LA and NY. Turns out the woman who interviewed her had a BFA in musical theatre.</p>

<p>So, imagep, there are many ways to make yourself more marketable as a music performance major. Yes, D would love to sing and if a great opportunity becomes available, she will be there. But she would also love a marketing or producing job in entertainment. And at a later time, she may choose to teach. </p>

<p>But if she were to pursue ed as an undergraduate, she would need to start teaching upon graduation or soon thereafter to get her certification. Since that is not in her immediate plans, but other options may be, it would not be to her advantage to take ed classes as an undergrad in lieu of business classes.</p>

<p>So music ed for undergrad music majors is NOT a no brainer at all. There are many others avenues one can take. Personally, since D is at NYU, I would rather she use the opportunity and take advantage of business classes with Stern professors (who teach similar classes as part of NYU’s MBA program of the same name), rather than fill up her schedule with undergrad ed classes, when she would need to duplicate many of them in grad school anyway if she chooses to teach.</p>

<p>.</p>

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<p>imagep, you misunderstand me. I am not at all saying “only the best music students should study music.” What I am saying is that only people who really want to teach K-12 should pursue music education and that those who don’t want to do that should not do so. If the OP really wants to be a music teacher, go for it! We need more dedicated music teachers in the public/private schools!</p>

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<p>USkool,</p>

<p>Your D did exactly what seems to be perfect for her. Apparently she has plans other than teaching and she pursued an education path that allows her several different opportunties. Thats exactly what I am talking about. She didn’t put all her education eggs in one basket. There are a heck of a lot of people on this forum who would have told her that she shouldnt waste her time on those minors and should have spent all that time practicing her primary instrument.</p>

<p>I have absolutely no disagreement to the path that your D took, its exactly the type of thing that I am suggesting that music students do, and exactly the type of thing that I am suggesting the the CC enourage people to do, rather than “poo pooing” anyone who suggests a curiculum which may contain a “backup plan”.</p>

<p>Now granted I probably shouldnt have suggested that the music ed thing is a “no brainer” as there are lots of different ways that the potential music performance majors can hedge their educational bets a little, and it is obvious that your D made a good choice in doing that. What I probably should had suggested was that having extending curriculum beyond performance is a “no brainer”, especially for someone like the OP who apparently had some concerns about being a performance major.</p>

<p>By the way, my S also loves to play his instruments, and if he were to be offered the opportunity to do so at a livable salary I am sure that he would jump on the opportunity to do so. But like your D, he is realistic about the job market. Teaching middle or high school is by no way a “fall back” plan though, it is more like an alternative plan, one that is only feasable with an ed degree. </p>

<p>Most college athletes have hopes that they will one day make the pros. Most college athletes are realistic enough though to earn a degree in a subject, even if it is physical ed, that will provide them with more realistic job opportunities in case a career as a pro athlete doesnt work out. I cant imagine any CC member suggesting to a college football player that they shouldn’t take any PITA classes because all they need to do is to practice football.</p>

<p>The OP suggested that he/she would be satisfied or even happy to be a music teacher. If he/she had suggested that composition or music management would have made the OP happy if the OP couldn’t make it as a performer, then I would have suggested that being a composition or music management major would be a “no brainer”.</p>

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<p>[Rice</a> University | News & Media](<a href=“http://www.media.rice.edu/media/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=15117]Rice”>http://www.media.rice.edu/media/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=15117)
A nice article about cello studies at Rice</p>

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<p>

Imagep, an undergraduate degree is not really the place, in a BM, or a BA, at least (perhaps short of engineering) where one is actually in any way “qualifying” for a job per se. I think if more people spent time pursuing their vocations/callings instead of where they “think” the “jobs” will be, they’d find their lives more satisfying. Typically, the skills gleaned during the pursuit of any undergrad degree are transferable and a spring board to next steps, via experience or professional accreditation.</p>

<p>OP, it should be clear to you by now that music performance is in fact a vocation, and not something that should be undertaken if in your heart you can picture yourself being truly happy at anything else or if you are super-attached to material success in conventional terms. At the same time, do not sell out your dreams before you’ve even begun to pursue them – if you do end up pursing a performing career you absolutely must be of an “unstoppable” mind set – and hedging bets is not really the internal message you need to develop. If you have a conservatory-level talent, it is a gift that needs to be nurtured by the best mentors you can find. You will not necessarily find those types of mentors in an average BME program. That does not mean that you HAVE to nurture that talent just because you have it. But realize you will be unequivocally trading off that higher level of performance instruction and diluting your time and access to same by entering a BME undergrad. That may or may not affect your success in terms of accessing a Masters program in opera (but I am not familiar with opera, and perhaps it matters not since the voice needs time to mature.)</p>

<p>If you truly believe you’d be an excellent music teacher and that you are not merely trying to rationalize your “odds” in performance in terms of a fall back, shadow a k12 music teacher for a few weeks and ask your HS to count that as co-op. If you have strong relative or perfect pitch, a highly trained ear, or any proclivity to migraines it would be a good time to find out if you can actually stand 8 - 10 hours of atonality :wink: Also, take opportunities if you haven’t already to conduct your orchestra at school. My son pitch hit for his conductor periodically (both in wind symphony and jazz band) and was able to determine through this experience almost immediately that he was interested in neither music ed nor conducting in the k12 system. He would come home with terrible headaches due to, in his case, a condition of “superhearing”.</p>

<p>I liked the suggestion of the NYU parent/program where one can take a qualifying masters after a performance degree. That to me sounds preferable to staring in ED and then pursuing a performance masters, but I could be all wet on that. </p>

<p>Good luck in your search. Please do shadow some professionals on both sides of the coin, and try to spend some time speaking with each.
Cheers!</p>

<p>PS For familiar posters, yes, it’s me K, with a slight name change due to the apparent google-ability of my former handle ;)</p>