Personal Attention at Barnard?

<p>Hi. I’m interested in Barnard, but I’m worried about how close of a relationship a Barnard student can have with her professors. At many small liberal arts colleges, students talk about how they know all of their professors and their professors know them - they are invited to dinner at professors’ homes and their professors are always willing to continue a discussion after class or offer extra help. This is really appealing to me, and it’s one of the main reasons I’m looking at small liberal arts colleges. </p>

<p>Do Barnard professors sound like this? From reading about Barnard and its close ties with Columbia, it seems like the student-professor relationship resembles the relationship one might expect at a large research University (Columbia) rather than a small liberal arts college where the professors are there to TEACH first, then research. </p>

<p>Anyway, I was hoping someone could clear this up for me. Is it harder at Barnard to establish close student-professor relationships than at other small liberal arts colleges? Do the professors make themselves available outside of class for further discussion and help? </p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>Oh, and class size. I was also wondering:
a) How big are the largest classes at Barnard College?
b) What is a typical Barnard class size?
c) What is the typical Columbia class size?</p>

<p>At both schools, are discussion based classes more common or lecture? How large are the discussion-based classes vs. lecture?
Thanks!</p>

<ol>
<li>personal contact: this is largely up to the student. The professors are accessible, but they will not seek the students. You are encouraged to seek them out. In the smaller classes contact is more intimate. the professors do get to know you .</li>
<li>Class size: the largest classes are the introductory classes and may be one to two hundred. The upper level classes are much smaller. The intro classes in languages and writing are all under twenty.</li>
</ol>

<p>I think my daughter's smallest class so far has been about 8 students; I think she had a discussion session in a larger class this past semester that was only 4 or 5 students. (These were both Columbia courses). Her largest class (at Barnard) was about 300 students. Her first year seminar in the spring had the typical 15 students, but was co-taught by two profs, so there was essentially a 1:7 ratio -- the 2 profs in question are quite accomplished and I have seen both featured & profiled in various articles and media. When I was visiting my d. last year I attended one class session with her - about 40 students -- and the prof made a point of introducing himself to me and chatting at the end of class; and I met and chatted with one of her seminar profs when we stopped by the office to pick up some materials my d. needed for a project. My d's advisor was a department head, and, because of some scheduling issues that had come up, gave my d. her home telephone number and spent several hours talking to her during my d's first week or so. </p>

<p>So I'd say that class sizes are all over the map. My d. doesn't socialize with her profs but I don't think she wants to -- my son attended a very small LAC his first 2 years and he didn't have dinner at prof's homes either, though he had frequent contact and was very friendly with one prof in particular. I think the whole "invited to dinner" thing may be more something that happens in small towns or isolated college communities where there is not much else to do, and where profs live very close to campus. </p>

<p>In sum, I was quite surprised last year at how approachable the profs were, but I think there is still a social line between student & prof. My d. has told me that she prefers the larger classes and that she does not like seminars -- she is a good auditory learner so I think she would prefer a well-planned and cohesive lecture.</p>

<p>You get excellent info about class size in advance of enrollment via the course enrollment system--that is, as you are signing up you can pretty much see how many others have already enrolled and if there are specific limits it will be noted-- so I do think you can tailor your course selection somewhat to your preferences.</p>

<p>According to my d, Barnard's faculty is very accessible. She was greeted by name by the head of the dance department after just the first few weeks of classes her first semester (and she is not a dance major; nor is she the best dancer there by any stretch...ummm, excuse the pun). Her major advisor (her major is neuroscience) has been very helpful and I do know that she did go to the apartment of one of her professors (a seminar class, I believe) along with the rest of her class for an end-of-semester thingey. </p>

<p>In short, I agree with Calmom and Mardad that the profs will be as accessible as you need them to be and that the dinner-at-your-prof's home is not done that often (trust me, you will want to do other things in NYC!!!), but it DOES happen....</p>

<p>Best to you in your college search!</p>

<p>My D's 15 person poetry class did have brunch at the prof's apt. for one of the sessions.</p>

<p>Although she does not socialize with her profs, her American Studies profs (her major) are extremely cordial and helpful.</p>

<p>My S is at Williams and he has not socialized with profs either.</p>

<p>Both schools are rigorous and both have a warm atmosphere, but I would say that neither fosters a "casual" relationship between students and profs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
At many small liberal arts colleges, students talk about how they know all of their professors and their professors know them - they are invited to dinner at professors' homes and their professors are always willing to continue a discussion after class or offer extra help. Do Barnard professors sound like this?

[/quote]

Absolutely! My first-year seminar professor invited us all over for dessert at the end of the semester. And the rest of my professors were all very approachable and willing to help you out after class. That being said, few professors will try to learn your names when you're in a large class. You need to be proactive and go to office hours (I'm sure that's true at any school). I don't know much about professors at Columbia (I had all Barnard classes this semester), but my friends have enjoyed the classes they've had over there as well. I think it definitely depends on the professor. You're more likely, however, to find more approachable professors at Barnard.

[quote]
a) How big are the largest classes at Barnard College?
b) What is a typical Barnard class size?
c) What is the typical Columbia class size?

[/quote]

A. Intro classes are capped at 100-200.
B. It really varies. First-year English and first-year seminar are capped at 16. Most seminar classes are usually capped at around 15-20. As someone said, intro languages are all capped at 20 or less. However, intro classes are more like 100 and even intermediate are more like 50.
C. More likely to be bigger than a class at Barnard.

[quote]
At both schools, are discussion based classes more common or lecture? How large are the discussion-based classes vs. lecture?

[/quote]

Again it depends on the class. Classes that are under 20-30 will naturally be more discussion-based than a class of 50+ which will naturally be lecture-based. However, many lecture classes that are 100+ have discussion sections with a TA once a week in addition to the twice a week lecture.</p>

<p>I'm kind of confused about the whole Barnard-Columbia relationship and what that's like. So if a Barnard student can take any class she wants at Columbia, and vice versa, what's the point of having two separate schools? Barnard's classes wouldn't be all women. Also, is it true that Barnard students can choose to stay in Columbia's dorms? Once again, that part kind of confused me. Third and last question: Do Columbia and Barnard share extracurriculars? As in, do they share the same newspaper, sports teams, etc?</p>

<p>Parent here, but I can answer some of your questions.</p>

<p>First of all, Barnard has a different administration, advising system, and degree requirements, so one reason to maintain separate colleges is to provide students with a path to a strong liberal arts education without the rigid core of Columbia. (Admittedly, it would be nice if male students also had that option). I do know from both my kids that the relationship between administration & students can play a very significant part in the way the students view their education, and I know that my d. feels very positively about the Barnard administration, and has quite negative feelings about Columbia administration (likely echoing attitudes picked up from Columbia students). Also, even though there is overlap in course selection, major requirements can be different at each college. For example, Barnard students have senior research project or thesis for most majors; I do not know whether Columbia students typically have such requirements.
[quote]
Also, is it true that Barnard students can choose to stay in Columbia's dorms?

[/quote]
Only after the first year, and it isn't simply a matter of choice of dorms -- it is simply that for some (but not all) suite-style dorms, Barnard students can join Columbia groups for housing selection, and vice versa. There is a not a particular advantage to doing this, but it is more a way to accommodate friends who want to live together than a matter of selection into particular dorms.

[quote]
Do Columbia and Barnard share extracurriculars? As in, do they share the same newspaper, sports teams, etc?

[/quote]
Yes, definitely, but there are also some Barnard-specific ECs, though many are available to Columbia students as well. For example, Columbia has a radio station (WKCR) and Barnard also has a radio station. My d. has a radio program at the Barnard station (WBAR) -- but there are also some Columbia students with WBAR programs -- the stations are somewhat different and the process of getting involved is a little different.</p>

<p>I think personal attention at Barnard is largely what you make of it, but professors make themselves very available. There is a big range in class sizes... from 5-200 . It is pretty easy to ensure most of your classes are under thirty (with the exception of intro classes required for your major), though, and its more likely youll get to know profs in smaller classes. However, all of my professors this semester were very friendly and encouraged us to meet with them out of class. I took one Intro class that had about 200 people in it (this is unusual, but it is a very popular class) but the professor really urged students to email him and come to office hours. He even gave out his home phone number and told us we could call him any time. Im sure there are some unavailable teachers, too...but I have found all of my profs to be extremely friendly and inviting, even in a large intro class .</p>