Personal Experiences with the industry

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>I will be a junior in High School this year, and I want to pursue a career in musical theater. However, it is basically common knowledge that the musical theater industry is extremely difficult and that most of the time actors are unexmployed. Since many of you are parents of actors, and many of you are actors yourselves, I’d rather get answers from you rather than “hear” about it from others. </p>

<li>How hard is it to survive as an actor? </li>
<li>Do actors ever get to the point where they simply cannot pay their rent and have to go to a homeless shelter?</li>
<li>How hard is it to get work? I read that actors are unexmployed 99 percent of the time, so for how many months or years are actors usually employed?
4.and, how do they survive during their unexmployment? 5.What kinds of jobs can they get to help them survive?
I know that they can get jobs as waiters, but is there anything else that they can do? Like being voice teachers, etc?</li>
<li>Do most actors continue to take acting, dance classes?</li>
<li>Even when actors are employed, are their salaries sufficient?</li>
<li>Do you feel that getting a BFA in musical theater helps prepare and train you for the industry?</li>
<li>I’ve heard that it is easier for men to get jobs over women, is it true?</li>
</ol>

<p>I personally want to get into the MT program at CMU or Pennsylvania State University, but those are really tough programs.
I’ve sung all my life, and I do take private voice lessons and although I’m not the best singer out there, I’m still pretty good.
But I’ve never taken anything acting or dancing classes (I will start to take ballet and jazz classes soon), and I feel that my acting isn’t exactly where it should be.
Is it too late for me? Especially the dancing part, because don’t most people start at a very early age (ballet in particular)?</p>

<p>I also want to have some back-up colleges, in case I don’t get into the ones I audition for. What are some good back-up colleges for a BFA in MT that actually provide a good college experience and aren’t extremely small in size. I prefer mid-size to large colleges like CMU and Pennsylvania State, but other than that are there any others out there that can be considered back-ups?</p>

<p>At this point, although musical theater is my passion and I want to do it, I just don’t know if I could survive not having a job 99 percent of the time and living in poverty and barely surviving. </p>

<p>Thanks for any responses that you could give.</p>

2

<p>You have asked numerous questions and I hope you get responses. I am not an actor. I also cannot answer all of those questions in a post and the time it would take me. </p>

<p>I will address just one thing you mentioned. You seem to imply that if you do not get work performing on stage, but have a college degree (or maybe even without the college degree), it means living in a homeless shelter, and/or waiting tables, living in poverty or barely surviving. Let me just say that first of all, if you do go to college, a college degree should enable you to get a decent paying job and not be homeless, whether or not the job is performing on stage. Even if you major in MT, you should be equipped and qualified to do many sorts of jobs both related and unrelated to theater, without living in poverty. YES, the chances of making it on the professional theater stage are difficult, but it doesn't mean that someone with a degree in MT can ONLY be a performer. A person who earns a degree is an educated person and an education can take you places. Hopefully, most who earn a degree in MT, have a variety of skills sets they can use to do a variety of work in the theater industry, let alone unrelated work. For instance, I have a kid who is 18 and currently earning a BFA degree but she continues to be able to earn between $25-$50/hour at a variety of jobs related to musical theater besides performing....such as musically directing, being an accompanist, teaching, transcribing or arranging music, etc. (not counting work as a MT actress) So, she doesn't even have a degree yet but has skills all relating to MT that gets her quite decent paying jobs in this field not including work ON stage. I don't think she is unusual in this way. Others possess other skills that can get them work. I know MT is a difficult field and jobs are not steady, but if you have skills and an education, you should be able to get related theater work at the least, let alone a paying job outside the field, while of course striving to get work as a performer. Sorry to not help with all of your questions at this time.</p>

3

<p>Hi Claydavisdbc,</p>

<p>You have some very good questions. I have answered your questions based on my experiences. I am sure that you will get different responses from others. To help put my answers in context -- I graduated with a BFA in MT and lived in NY working as a performer in the 1990s. I since have gotten my MFA in directing and now teach in a Musical Theatre program at a University. </p>

<ol>
<li>How hard is it to survive as an actor? </li>
</ol>

<p>I would be lying if I didn’t say it was difficult. There are far more talented people who want to make their lives as actors than there are jobs, so there is a lot of competition. Most actors starting out (and some for much of their career), have a “survival job”… waiting tables, working as an office temp, a hotel concierge, a nanny… to make ends meet. </p>

<ol>
<li>Do actors ever get to the point where they simply cannot pay their rent and have to go to a homeless shelter?</li>
</ol>

<p>I have never known this to be the case… as long as you are healthy you can work… however, very few actors (particularly those just starting out) support themselves on acting alone…. See “survival job”, above… </p>

<ol>
<li>How hard is it to get work? I read that actors are unexmployed 99 percent of the time, so for how many months or years are actors usually employed?</li>
</ol>

<p>Some people say that an actors main “job” is auditioning to get work, and that the work itself is the play time. There are no hard and fast rules as to how often any individual actor will work, or how log they may go in between jobs. There are also no guarantees that once you “make it big”, you will work steadily as an actor. I have one friend that after working non-stop as a performer on National Tours and Broadway for three years, didn’t work as a performer for two years after her Broadway show closed. She was auditioning, getting called back, but not booking work. I recall reading an article in Backstage (the trade paper for actors) about Doug Savant (currently on Desperate Housewives), who was on Melrose Place in the 1990s, and had such a difficult time booking work after Melrose Place ended that he went and got his real estate license and sold houses for a number of years before booking Desperate Housewives. There are other actors who pretty much go from job to job without much time off in between… who are in a Broadway show that runs for a very long time (think Cats, and Phantom of the Opera), or are on Soap Operas. Every actors experience in the business will be different. You have to REALLY love performing to live with the ups and downs of the business. </p>

<p>4.and, how do they survive during their unexmployment? </p>

<p>See “survival jobs” above. Many also collect unemployment insurance in between gigs. The lucky ones who have managed to save enough money on a job (or who book a big national commercial) can live off of that money… or, wisely invest for the future. </p>

<p>5.What kinds of jobs can they get to help them survive? I know that they can get jobs as waiters, but is there anything else that they can do? Like being voice teachers, etc?</p>

<p>Some are voice and dance teachers… I have a number of friends who are personal trainers… some others teach acting at studios around NYC. However, most of the teaching jobs will not come until a performer is in their thirties when they have more experience as performers themselves, or have gone to graduate school. Others also work as Stage Managers, readers at auditions, theatre technicians, etc... </p>

<ol>
<li>Do most actors continue to take acting, dance classes?</li>
</ol>

<p>Yes!!! This is a craft, and you must continuously stretch yourself in order to be your best and grow as a performer.</p>

<ol>
<li>Even when actors are employed, are their salaries sufficient?</li>
</ol>

<p>Sometimes, but not always – I had a friend years ago who was in the Fantasticks when it was as the Sullivan Street Theatre (where it ran for 30+ years in NYC). This person worked waiting tables during the day in order to make ends meet on the off- Broadway salary. Broadway Minimum is around $1300 per week now… but take into account that a studio apartment in Manhattan can cost close to that much, and the $1300 per week is not as exciting…. BUT, livable. Off-Broadway salaries are much less... and some Actors Equity contracts for working out of town pay as little as about $300 per week. </p>

<ol>
<li>Do you feel that getting a BFA in musical theater helps prepare and train you for the industry?</li>
</ol>

<p>Yes--- However, it is not necessary for success in the business. There are many different training paths to a career in performing. I have former students who graduated with a BA who work as much as their BFA counterparts… there are others who choose to forgo college and train at a two-year conservatory or piece together their training by taking classes at different studios around the city. What is needed to make it in the business is training, talent, hard work, and luck.</p>

<ol>
<li>I've heard that it is easier for men to get jobs over women, is it true?</li>
</ol>

<p>Yes and no –- There are fewer men competing for jobs, and there are sometimes more roles in a show for men than women…. Think Shakespeare… However, there is stiff competition regardless of gender. </p>

<p>Finally, As far as your question about schools – the common wisdom is that each auditioner needs a cross section of schools at which (s)he could be happy. Some auditioned, some non-auditioned…. Go to the big list (see Faq link at the top of the MT forum) for a list of schools that offered a degree in MT… some are auditioned, some non-auditioned…. Some are BFA, some are BA… start by looking at the schools in the states you are most interested in. </p>

<p>GOOD LUCK!!! :)</p>

4

<p>Kat...you are a godsend on the forum! You have so much to offer. All the answers above are very apt, and I thank you for taking the time to help this student in this way. Thank you for your contributions to the forum. It is so helpful having professionals from this field participate here, including college faculty members like yourself.</p>

5

<p>I personally know two performers. </p>

<p>One studied social work at a four-year university. He auditioned for MT work and did quite well. He indicates that the work ethic and exposure to one show carried him through so that directors and choreographers wanted to work with him on another show. He used his social work degree to pick up temp work in between shows. He is in his mid 40's now and has moved back to the LA area to take a full-time social work job. The lifestyle was not appealing to him as much at this stage of life. </p>

<p>The other performer I know is young. He graduated last year from a two year conservatory. He worked in a national show for very young children and then returned to LA. It seems his projections of how he would be "embraced by NYC" were not substantiated on this national tour. He learned a great deal with this exposure to the business and returned more realistic. His parents have told him that they cannot support him any longer. He's sharing an apartment with another actor, is working (retail jobs), and has enrolled in community college. At this point he continues to audition for shows, but has said he may want to pursue law enforcement. I think the lesson with this example is that this guy's employment status has not changed since high school. He has not developed or tapped into any of the MT skills to secure work at a higer wage. A four-year degree may have helped in this area, but it's also somewhat dependent on the individual (like SoozieVt's daughter who doesn't have a degree but is working for more than minimum wage).</p>

6

<p>Hi, I'm a rising senior and I've been performing professionally for almost ten years. I hope I can help (since I'm near your age range I might have some good input answerign the questions I can....I hope!)</p>

<ol>
<li>How hard is it to get work? I read that actors are unexmployed 99 percent of the time, so for how many months or years are actors usually employed?
It's hard because it's so out of your control. The people who are constantly employed are people who are needed by producers and the creative team at that moment. In no way am I implying that luck is the only factor, but sometimes you just are not the type. Height, age, LOOK is very important to specific shows. So,w hile you might not be right for one project, you could be perfect for another. This is something I've seen dozens of times - it's annoying, but a fact.
4.and, how do they survive during their unexmployment? 5.What kinds of jobs can they get to help them survive?
I know that they can get jobs as waiters, but is there anything else that they can do? Like being voice teachers, etc?
A lot of my adult performing friends teach either voice or dance. In no way is this the only option (and waitressing). I have friends with real estate liscenses, their own businesses, etc. The only part that can get in the way of a normal job is last minute auditions, performing schedules, and taking time away. Self-employment is very helpful.</li>
<li>Do most actors continue to take acting, dance classes?
Absolutely. I'd be very surprised to find more than a few actors who do nothing.</li>
<li>I've heard that it is easier for men to get jobs over women, is it true?
Again, it's all about the project.</li>
</ol>

7

<p>I forgot to write in my post above... that if pursuing a career in the performing arts is your passion, don't let the fact that it can be difficult journey discourage you. We all spend a lot of time working at a job over the course of our lives. I am a firm believer that life is better if you enjoy what you do. Making a decision to study MT in college does not mean that you have to be a performer for the rest of your life. Theatre training can prepare a person for many careers. If performing is your dream job, train, work hard, and go for it, you may dscover later on that the lifestyle is not the one you want to live, but you will not know unless you give it a go. I have many friends who worked professionally as performers and then made the decision to pursue something different... none of them regret the fact that they started out as performers, and they continue to use what they learned and experienced during their performance careers. </p>

<p>PS.. thank Soozie. I learn a lot from reading the board, and I am happy when I may be able to offer something that can be of help to someone else.</p>

8

<p>clay, you've asked a lot of questions and you've received a lot of answers. The issue of whether you can support yourself as an actor is a tricky one, and as others have said, it varies actor to actor, show to show. If you are lucky enough to be cast, your salary will, as an Equity member, be determined by where you'll be working. Off-Broadway minimum salaries are dependent on the size of the house and will range from $506 - 890. Broadway minimum is now $1509 (same for national tours) with increments for covering additional roles, being an u/s, a full or partial swing, a dance captain, etc. Do actors live on these minimum salaries? Of course, but the thing you have to remember is that very few actors are employed even 50 weeks a year, unlike most other professions. So, if you're in a long-running show, you're very fortunate. People wonder why some actors stay in long-running Broadway shows for such a long time, well, if they understood the business, they'd know the answer!</p>

<p>I've told this story about a family friend before on this forum, but I"ll repeat it for you. This talented young man was cast in a tour of a long-running Broadway show at a very young age. He stayed with the tour until the tour ended, then joined the Broadway cast where he remained for several years. Through the years of his Broadway time, he continued to audition for all shows where he thought he'd have the chance of being cast. Last year, he finally was cast in a new Broadway show so he left his longterm (and dependable) paycheck to join the new show. The new show closed in three weeks. He's been out of work since then. Very very few actors are continuously employed, even big theatre stars like Adam Pascal, Idina Menzel, Lea Salonga, the Foster siblings, Raul Esparza, Manoel Felciano, Norbert Leo Butz, and the list is endless.</p>

<p>I say all this as the parent of a working actor whom I have always given my utmost support and encouragement. I just think it's important that those going into this business know the realities of what life as an actor will be like. It's a constant battle, emotionally and financially.</p>

9

<p>Plus...I am not THAT familiar with being a member of the Actors' Equity, but I do have several hours towards my card and once you get one they help you out a little bit ;)</p>

<p>I know that they make it a lot easier to audition during the main auditioning seasons and require its members to receive so much as their salary (however, if you are auditioning for a show at a lesser known venue, this can work AGAINST you since they can pay somebody else for less.). They also provide things such as work rules, health, pensions, tax assistance. So they have the actors' backs :)</p>

<p>Just a little info and something to look forward to. Please correct me if some of my facts aren't straight.</p>

<p>Oh, and p.s. It's not too late for you, especially being a junior (I'm a senior...rgh). Enroll yourself in classes if you can, make sure you'll be gettng good training. As you'll see all over the boards, they look for potential in dancing. So don't worry so much about that, just show that it's your passion and do your best. That's the BEST you can, which is what they expect. Sounds like a deal to me.</p>

10

<p>Jay -- you facts are correct for the most part. </p>

<p>AEA membership doesn't necessarily make it easier to audition though... although it does make it easier to audition for AEA work (which is higher paying, allows you to earn weeks to pension and health insurance, offers protections, etc...), AEA prohibits members from doing for non-AEA theatre work. Sometimes when you are young this can get in the way of entry level work... much of which is non-AEA... </p>

<p>I am an AEA member, and wish that more work was under AEA jurisdiction... but a lot of jobs for actors starting out are not.... so while AEA is eventually something that professional actors want to obtain, it is not always the best first step to pursue for young actors just starting out. </p>

<p>For information on AEA membership go to: <a href="http://www.actorsequity.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.actorsequity.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

11

<p>clay:</p>

<p>My two cents:</p>

<ol>
<li>How hard is it to survive as an actor? </li>
</ol>

<p>I got a BA in physics and English lit, but had about 40 semester hours in theater and spent almost all my free time in the theater department doing mainstage shows, black box shows, showcases, and directorial workshops for grad students and the like. I went to a theater conference and hit the jackpot, being hired into a LORT B+ theater that did repertory. The repertory was important, since there were a number of itinerant directors who came through. One of them hired me for a show at the Alaska Rep, where I met another director who hired me into ACT. This sort of snowball effect kept up so that I went three years without having to take another job. That's when I got out so that my marriage wouldn't fall apart.</p>

<p>I can assure you that, had I stayed in the business, I would have hit a dry spell and would have needed another job. I can also assure you that my experience was unusual. Most people my age were struggling because they were up for roles for young people, and there are more young people auditioning before the inevitable weed out.</p>

<ol>
<li>Do actors ever get to the point where they simply cannot pay their rent and have to go to a homeless shelter?</li>
</ol>

<p>There's no need for that. Prostitution will keep you off the streets ;-).</p>

<ol>
<li>How hard is it to get work? I read that actors are unexmployed 99 percent of the time, so for how many months or years are actors usually employed?
4.and, how do they survive during their unexmployment? 5.What kinds of jobs can they get to help them survive?</li>
</ol>

<p>It's hard until you begin to make contacts. I still do voice over and on-camera work, and I have people who just call me up. I rarely audition anymore. I probably clear about $20,000/year doing the occasional VO or industrial. My day rate of on-camera work is $1,500, and my VO rate is $400 for the half day.</p>

<p>It takes a while to reach this point, however, and I can assure you that it will be difficult until then. It is easier to get a job as a player in the NFL than as a performer in a B'Way musical.</p>

<p>If you're lucky, you'll get a long-running, national commercial that will pay the rent for some time. But everyone wants one of those. Note that some theaters have resident companies, and if you get hired into one of those, you're set for a good while.</p>

<p>You already know about the waiter jobs. Some other jobs I've known people to have are temp paralegal, temp X-ray technician, bellhop (good pay at the right place), substitute teaching (highly recommended but you'll need a license), writer of children's books, copy editor, freelance reporter, and day laborer. Temp word processor used to be a good gig, but that job is pretty much gone.</p>

<ol>
<li>Do most actors continue to take acting, dance classes?</li>
</ol>

<p>Oh, you betcha! I take 'em just for fun, but I also learn a lot. </p>

<ol>
<li>Even when actors are employed, are their salaries sufficient?</li>
</ol>

<p>It's not a great living unless you're doing a lot of TV and/or film work. Even if you get a long-running B'Way show, you'll begin to hate your job as you're doing the same thing seven times a week, over and over and over again. I met a guy who'd been with "Cats" for four years. He was a mess.</p>

<ol>
<li>Do you feel that getting a BFA in musical theater helps prepare and train you for the industry?</li>
</ol>

<p>A lot of disagreement, here. If you want to do only musical theater, a program that develops your voice and dancing is very helpful, I think. Acting is very important to me, but doesn't seem as important to people who cast MT. My impression is that the best acting teachers are not at the MT programs. They're at places like Juilliard, ACT, etc.</p>

<p>Personally, I think every musical actor should aspire to being able to cross over into straight theater, but I think that the MT form tends to teach acting habits that reduce chances of getting straight theater work.</p>

<ol>
<li>I've heard that it is easier for men to get jobs over women, is it true?</li>
</ol>

<p>Yes. There are more roles for men, there are fewer men trying for those roles, and my personal experience tells me that young male actors tend not to be as good, overall, as young female actresses. So, for males, the competition isn't quite as stiff.</p>

12

<p>just to add -
i got my equity card when i was 8 - it stopped me from a lot of community theater, etc opportunities. i had to get permission for school shows</p>

13

<p>About the Equity card.</p>

<p>I've known so many people who got that thing too early. There was a time when just about the only way to get one was to be cast in an Equity role, but you generally had to be Equity to get cast in an Equity role. In other words, you had to be so right for a part that a theater would make you Equity, or you had to work for them so long in non-Equity parts (difficult to do) that they took pity on you.</p>

<p>I knew one guy who produced a one-time, one-man-show in NY, called up Equity to get a contract to cast an Equity actor, then cast himself. He wasn't ready. I don't think he got much work after that.</p>

<p>Before getting your card, do a very critical self-evaluation and have others you trust do the same for you. Your level of competition will increase dramatically one you have that card. In addition, there are some markets where it's almost impossible to work with a card, because the roles available are de facto unavailable.</p>

14

<p>Another consideration re: getting the Equity card is that many of the current national tours are non-Equity. These tours are often the first professional job that kids get straight out of college. Many even take a leave of absence from college to do these tours. They would be unavailable to any actor who already has an Equity card. Having the opportunity to get your card as a young actor is something which should be given very thoughtful consideration, as tempting as it may be.</p>

15

<p>Thanks alwaysamom. I didn't know that.</p>

16

<p>thanks for all your responses!</p>

17

<p>I feel I just have to respond here - yes there are ups and downs to getting the Equity card in terms of what work is left for you - I haven't experienced the "no card" side to my career, so I'm not in the best position to answer, but being a part of Equity is a pleasure. EPAs give members all the benefits, and it is not tough to find auditions. I was cast in a Broadway show when I was younger, so joining Equity was a necessity - I didn't have a choice. If I had to go back, though, I wouldn't change it.</p>

18

<p>bwayfan:</p>

<p>I agree that AEA membership had benefits, not the least of which was being teased by non-AEA members about the Equity cot. But I have to tell you, I know so many actors who got that card before they were ready for it. They just weren't good enough to compete, day in and day out, against more experienced and better-trained colleagues. It's like an athlete going from college to the pros too early, and having a once-promising career, basically, end.</p>

<p>Personally, I think Equity should not require cards for children, but require that Equity productions treat children as though they are union members, extending all benefits to them. To me, requiring that card is almost child abuse.</p>

19

<p>This is an important thread. I appreciate reading others' experiences.</p>

<p>Our S has approached it this way: got a B.A. with double major in Theater/Dance and Music. Moved to NYC, first living and working as a part-time nanny (!) to older elementary students, 20 hrs./week. This solved his apartment/job issue in the first year. Employer gave him: living quarters, metro card (all transpo needs taken care of), dinner, and cell phone
as job necessities. In his free time, he auditioned and performed in off-off-broadway shows; also found work acting in the films of film students in undergrad and grad programs. He worked DAILY as an actor. If he wasn't performing, he was rehearsing; and in-between auditioned or handled emails related to getting the next show scheduled. In that first year, as one show went down, the next came up. He had an agent but found 99% of these roles himself. Most of the acting jobs didn't pay, but he was free to act in the plays he found interesting since the nanny job met his financial needs.</p>

<p>The second year, he moved into a shared apartment and continued. From some of the plays in the first year, he had developed a network of people so that when 2 new theater companies (troupes) began, he was invited in. Since he didn't have the nanny job, he assembled several different jobs to meet his financial needs. He taught a foreign language several times weekly; tutors SAT's; works infrequently but for great pay as an actor for a nonprofit that does anti-bullying plays in the public schools; and if he needs more that month, he goes into a bar with his camera and photographs patrons for a fee. He's the only person I know who goes into a bar and comes out richer. Again, he acts STEADILY and constantly. He has never come close to starving, but is very resourceful and hardworking. Does not dwell a moment if he doesn't get a part, just keeps auditioning until he does get a part. Simple as that. Recently, he was cast in a role in the Fringe Festival for off-broadway, so that's a step up. He'll rehearse it concurrently with a Shakespeare role to follow immediately.</p>

<p>He's been called back a few times to a national touring company and if that comes in, it will be how he gets his Actors Equity card. Until then, he has plenty of acting opportunity in NYC as a non-equity actor. Equity will come in its own right moment.
Lately, many of his plays are "equity showcase" which means he gets to act on the same stage as equity actors. This is very good for his development, to work with them. </p>

<p>He tracks his progress by the quality of shows he's in, not how much he earns from them. As long as he has these part-time jobs, he is an actor who doesn't starve and that's all he wants for now. </p>

<p>He mentioned that there's a difference for gender re: roles. For men, onstage,
most parts are for around ages 25-35, but for women it starts younger as many roles are written for the ingenue, so 18-25.</p>

20

<p>It's definately a job for young people. I can't imagine trying to support a family on it. My D was cast in a Bdwy show when she was 7, and every one of the actors in it auditioned during the day for whatever they could get. Commercials, V/O...whatever. The salary is low compared to on-camera work. There is a large amount of overhead, also, like headshots, lessons, travel, transportation, agent, etc. Over the years we have met many people who were "hot" for a time, and then they cooled off and couldn't book. Some were people who had done major movies and starred in sitcoms. It's a very very fickle business. If you look on the IBDB, you can see that most actors don't do more than one or two Bdwy shows. We did it as a hobby, and always looked at it that way. We have lots of great memories from her career. But doing it for a living seems to be very hard.
As for equity, I decided not to have my daughter join. It was a good decision, because there have been many things since then that she couldn't have done if she had been a member.
Don't let all this discourage you. It's all very exciting and a huge amount of fun. Just be realistic and know that chances are you'll probably need to work in other jobs to get by.</p>