<p>Hello. I have some questions about graduate school, mainly what are my chances of getting in and how many programs should I apply to.</p>
<p>Here is some info on me: I am a senior psychology major, sociology minor getting a B.A. this May. I have a 3.8 GPA and GRE scores around the 50% (I plan to retake it this fall). I have had two research jobs over the past year and have three posters and two papers up for approval right now. I will be attending/presenting at my first conference this fall before applications are due. I also have some clinical experience through two volunteer jobs (suicide prevention and crisis line)</p>
<p>I am applying to PhD programs for clinical psych, and possibly some for counseling, as a backup plan if I don't get into a clinical program. I am looking mainly at state schools and schools in the West: CO, AZ, OR, WA, etc. I was wondering how many programs I should apply for and how do I look compared to other prospective students. Also, is applying for counseling programs as well a good "back up"? Lastly, in terms of LOR, is it alright if they are not from professors, but from the people I do research/clinical jobs with? I feel like I am much closer to my supervisors than I am to my professors. Please let me know your thoughts! :)</p>
<p>Given that clinical is so competitive, it is not uncommon for people to apply to 12-15 PhD programs. I think most people apply to between 7 and 12, though.</p>
<p>How you look compared to other applicants really depends on the programs you’re applying to. Some Western states have top psychology programs (most of the UCs, CU-Boulder, UW-Seattle, Oregon, Arizona) while others are more mid-ranked (Arizona State, UNM, probably others). At the top psychology programs, a 50th percentile GRE score probably isn’t high enough. At some of the mid-ranked ones, 50th percentile might be more acceptable but still, perhaps, below their regular accepted students. Another thing is that it sounds like you only have one year of research experience (“two research jobs over the past year”). Most successful clinical applicants have 2+, MANY will have taken 2-3 years post-college to work as a lab manager or research assistant in a psychology or related lab to get even more experience.</p>
<p>Your GPA is fine - right in the ballpark of what most successful clinical applicants will have. Two papers coming up after just one year of research is interesting, but still really good if they are in any stage that’s close enough to actually put them on your CV.</p>
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<p>If those people have PhDs in psychology or a very closely related field and can speak to your potential to succeed in a PhD program in psychology, then one, perhaps two recommendations should come from them. You should still get one, or perhaps two, recommendations from professors in your department. Anyone who writes you a recommendation for a clinical program should have a PhD - preferably in psychology, but it’s okay if it’s in a closely related field if that professor knows you really well and is prepared to write a stunning LoR for you. Remember, the grad committee is most interested in hearing your potential to succeed in a clinical psych PhD program. The people best poised to comment on that are people who have at least completed a PhD in psych themselves.</p>
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<p>Well, that kind of depends on you. Counseling psych programs are a bit less competitive than clinical psychology programs. Broadly speaking, counseling psych focuses a little more on normal developmental trajectories while clinical psych focuses more on psychopathology. But that’s not 100% true - many counseling psychologists treat people with psychopathology, and many clinical psychologists choose to mainly treat relatively mentally healthy folk. If you go to an APA-accredited program, you can still be licensed as a psychologist and still treat mentally ill people, and most states don’t make much of a distinction between counseling and clinical psychologists.</p>
<p>If your goal is to do therapy with mentally ill people, then you need to pick counseling programs that offer training in that and have that as a focus.</p>
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<p>That said, is there a reason that you are limiting yourself to public schools in the West? Especially for a field as competitive as clinical psychology, you really shouldn’t limit yourself geographically unless you have very specific reasons to do so (i.e., caring for sick or elderly relatives). Also, you shouldn’t select graduate programs by geography or university type, anyway. Clinical psych programs should be selected by</p>
<p>1) APA-accreditation
2) Research interests. Are there professors there doing research that’s interesting to you? Can you work with professors there in their labs? Even if you want to practice, most clinical psych PhD programs will expect you to complete some research during grad school, including a dissertation.
3) Orientation. Most PhD programs in this field are scientist-practitioner programs, which means that they blend scientific training (research) with clinical training (practicing with clients, classes in counseling technique, etc.). But even most departments that call themselves have s-p have different amounts of each. Top programs like UCLA and CU-Boulder are going to be more focused on research. More mid-ranked programs may be more of a mix, more practitioner - or more research.</p>
<p>And there are some programs that consider themselves clinical science programs, The University of Arizona, University of Southern California, UCLA, UC-Berkeley, and the University of Oregon are Western universities that are accredited by the Psychological Clinical Science Accreditation System, which means that they wish to be recognized as schools that “promote science-centered education” and “graduate psychological clinical scientists who generate new knowledge relating to mental and behavioral health problems.” Put another way, they are going to be primarily focused on research, and their goal is going to be to get most of their students to go onto academic research careers. If you want to be a practitioner and open up your own practice or work at a hospital - and spend most of your career doing client services and therapy - you might be unhappy at one of these programs.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for your response! That was very helpful! In terms of wanting to stay in the West, its just because my parents, siblings and grand parents all live in the West, throughout CA, New Mexico, and Colorado. I am open to other schools, but I would just prefer to be close to my family. I realize the GRE score needs work, so I signed up for a two month GRE prep class that starts in two weeks. They promise to raise each section by ten points, which would put me in the 160-165 range. In terms of GPA, I have 3.8 overall and 4.0 for psych, so I hope that helps me even if my GRE scores are a little low.</p>
<p>In terms of research, I have had a once a week but do work on the side research position (unpaid of course) through the university since January, working on a health psychology study. Starting June 1 I began a research assistant position (unpaid again) at a center for addiction here in the city. I do about 15-20 hrs of work there, with a post doc. My research through the university is with a professor who has a PhD. I also was thinking the director of the crisis line I work for as one of my LoR, she has a PhD in counseling. Also, I am an officer for Psi Chi, and our faculty member in charge of Psi Chi has a PhD in clinical psych, so he may be a good option. </p>
<p>In terms of graduate school, I would be looking into doing research involving addiction and substance abuse. I am specifically interested in addiction in women and even more specific in pregnant women, but I realize it will be VERY hard to find a school to match my research interests. The post doc I work with has some colleagues at universities that he thinks I should apply to, middle of nowhere schools in Missouri or Alabama, places I’ve never been and never saw myself living in. I keep debating whether or not I should apply to these places.</p>
<p>My applications are due Dec 1 and I’m taking my GRE (again) on October 27. So right now I’m trying to have a clear idea of how many and which schools to apply to. I am from the Northeast originally, from Pittsburgh, but like I said all my family is out west now and I am also getting my undergrad out west. If you have any suggestions of schools/programs/professors I should look into that would be greatly appreciated. If my research experience is lacking do you have any advice on how to be more impressive? Other than waiting another year to apply. Any other advice or suggestions you have are greatly appreciated! Thank you so much for your help! :)</p>
<p>I totally understand this! You want to be close to your family I did, too, and I think that’s not uncommon. Just remember, though, that the more flexibility you give yourself on this side (the on-the-grind, low-level graduate school + postdoc side) the more jobs you will be open to on the other side. What I mean by that is - the more prestigious/reputable your doctoral program is, generally speaking the better jobs you can compete for. If that’s something that’s on your radar, it’s just something to think about.</p>
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<p>Yes, if you just started in January, this is a challenge area in your application. Most of your serious competition will have had more research experience - starting between second semester sophomore year and first semester junior year at the latest. And like I said, many clinical applicants these days take some time post-college. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t apply for PhD programs - I think you should. Just be aware that this is an area that you could probably work on strengthening in the case that you don’t get in where you would like (and by that I mean you would work on research for 2015-2016 while applying again). In the mean time, just make sure that your research statement is really strong. You want to send the impression that you know what you’re talking about and that you already have a good grip on your interests.</p>
<p>The best people to get letters from are people who have supervised you in research or who have taught you in classes, since you want people who can comment on your readiness to do an academic program. The crisis line <em>could</em> potentially work, since it’s relevant to clinical work, but if you have 2 strong research supervisors and a third professor you took a class with that could also be a strong letter, I would choose those. I wouldn’t do the professor who has supervised Psi Chi, since your activities in Psi Chi aren’t necessarily a good reflection of the tasks that you will do in grad school (well, primarily anyway).</p>
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<p>We have similar interests! I do research on substance use, but in a different population. I don’t think it will be all that hard to find a school that matches your interests - ‘addiction in women’ is a very broad area, and I think you can find quite a few who do research in that area. You may want to look at programs that also have a health subfield in the same department (like UCLA) or at universities that also have a school of public health.</p>
<p>For example, take a look at Yale, as there are some people in the department of epidemiology there who do some stuff with drug use and STI prevention with young women and how it affects reproductive health (Jeannette Ickovics, who has a joint appointment with psychology, and Trace Kershaw both come to mind). Another place that comes to mind is UNC-Chapel Hill; their school of public health as a department of maternal and child health and I know they have a focus on drug and alcohol use during pregnancy. There are also a couple of people in clinical psych who do that there.</p>
<p>That said, YES, you should apply to any place where your interests match that will get you to go your goals. I am currently doing a postdoc in a place I had never been before and never saw myself living - a small college town. I actually really like it here. The people are nice and it’s a really pretty town with enough to do without being distracting. Remember that a PhD is only 5-6 years; you won’t have to commit to living there forever. Yes, you shouldn’t go to a place you think you’ll be miserable in, but there’s no harm in applying. Most clinical programs involve interviews so you can visit the place ahead of time, and if you absolutely hate it you can just decline.</p>
<p>Missouri is a good suggestion - they have an NIAAA-funded alcohol and addictions training program (<a href=“http://alcoholresearch.missouri.edu/”>http://alcoholresearch.missouri.edu/</a>) and there are a couple of faculty members there who do alcohol and drug research. Your postdoc probably has some really good advice, because as a postdoc I know that I could rattle off the top of my head several programs that might be interesting to an undergrad in my area (and know people at a few of those places).</p>
I did, too, and I think that’s not uncommon. Just remember, though, that the more flexibility you give yourself on this side (the on-the-grind, low-level graduate school + postdoc side) the more jobs you will be open to on the other side. What I mean by that is - the more prestigious/reputable your doctoral program is, generally speaking the better jobs you can compete for. If that’s something that’s on your radar, it’s just something to think about.</p>