<p>That may (or may not...I have no clue) be true, but it wasn't a point I was ever trying to argue. And I don't think anyone, myself included, is trying to suggest that Philosophy is the World's Greatest Degree...just that it's not a totally worthless one.</p>
<p>To each, his own :)</p>
<p>Having recently read a number of posts in this forum, I can't help but feel that some of the comments that have been made are entirely misplaced.</p>
<p>I don't claim to be an authority regarding the relative "worth" of college degrees, but as one who has worked full-time for almost two years now, I can assure you all that most employers could care less about what your college major was, especially for entry-level jobs. </p>
<p>Now, let's be clear: For those of you considering a career in medicine or technology, advanced quantitative skills are essential. This requires training in appropriate fields.</p>
<p>But for business, law, or education? Please.</p>
<p>I know there are those who find this observation hard to swallow; after all, economists tend to earn more than, say, philosophers. But are the baccalaureates to blame for this? Isn't the economist BY NATURE more inclined to make tons of money than "transcendent" intellectual? </p>
<p>For those of you considering a major in Philosophy, just do well in school and you'll be fine. Employers DO value work ethic. This also holds true with business, law, and graduate schools.</p>
<p>Philosophy is just like any other humanities major when it comes to job finding (except teaching philosophy of course), but for grad school it is often considered a great major because philosophy tends to hone intellectual skills much greater than say econ, psych, history, cultural studies, etc, while it is not as numerical as strictly mathmatics.</p>
<p>A philosophy degree hopefully teaches the person to think critically, apply theory and knowledge, understand multiple side of issues, and be able to validate opinion without simple faith backed arguments. These are things business degrees cannot do.</p>
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is trying to suggest that Philosophy is the World's Greatest Degree...just that it's not a totally worthless one.
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<p>It is a totally worthless degree if all you can do with it is go to grad school because there aren't any careers out there that ask for a bachelor's in philosophy.</p>
<p>I understand the points regarding philosophy being good preparation for grad school, but economics already fills that role.</p>
<p>shut up. you have to be the most closed-minded person I've ever heard of.</p>
<p>I'm close-minded because me and just about everyone else you'll meet realizes that a bachelor's in philosophy is a worthless degree?</p>
<p>Go ahead and get that degree if you want. But if you tell me to shut up while you're taking my order at Burger King, your supervisor will hear about it.</p>
<p>I never once said I'm majoring in philosophy. I'm not Student615. I'm a math/physics major who is all for philosophy. I'm gonna be your supervisor someday.</p>
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I'm a math/physics major who is all for philosophy. I'm gonna be your supervisor someday.
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<p>Hahahahaha! If you are all for philosophy, then why isn't it your major, hmm?</p>
<p>Last I checked, they aren't hiring physics majors with no real estate experience to run real estate development companies, which is the field I'm already working in. Sounds to me like you're barely out of high school.</p>
<p>Unless you get a MBA down the road you probably won't be anyone's supervisor in the business world.</p>
<p>"It is a totally worthless degree if all you can do with it is go to grad school because there aren't any careers out there that ask for a bachelor's in philosophy.</p>
<p>I understand the points regarding philosophy being good preparation for grad school, but economics already fills that role."</p>
<p>Economics. So explain what jobs specifically it prepares you for.</p>
<p>And, are jobs all about making money?
Does money make you feel you have worth? Or does intelligence make you feel you have worth?</p>
<p>You are stupid. Flat out!</p>
<p>well, most degrees are trying to train you to think like them. you probably won't remember the formulas, the things you've read, or most things unless you're continuously doing them. but the working world is too different from the academic world. you should get specific training in the field you're interested in. but until you're sure, it's fine to do something general. </p>
<p>majoring in philosophy is better than trying to find a job right out of high school. it's a good major and teaches you to think logically, clearly, and with reason. but no one is going to pay you to just think. but most philosophers value thinking over material things, or finding the truth, so it's fine to them. it discusses the issues other classes don't, ie: what is the meaning of life?, does God exist, among various interesting topics. this major may not help you find a job directly, but it can help you satisfy your craving of knowledge on important things no one else cares to talk about. and since philosophers value knowledge so much, most planned to further their education anyway, thus going to grad school. but even if they did try to find a job with only that degree, i don't see how an entry level position answering phones and filing is too different from a philosophy major and an English major. </p>
<p>btw, how does an econ degree prepare you for the lsat?</p>
<p>"Hahahahaha! If you are all for philosophy, then why isn't it your major, hmm?"
Because I like math and physics more? Now we have even more than one reason to believe that you are entirely closed-minded. First because you don't believe a degree in philosophy has any use, and second that you believe anything we're not majoring in is something we're entirely not interested in.</p>
<p>Real estate. sounds...fun. you must be a really deep thinker. just kidding; we have plenty of evidence that you aren't.</p>
<p>Who cares if I'm a college freshman? We obviously see from your posts that maturity isn't something that necessarily comes with age.</p>
<p>4321234: I like what you're getting at, but I also think that your post highlights a lot of stereotypes about philosophy and the students who major in it.</p>
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...but no one is going to pay you to just think.
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Okay, so this one isn't actually a stereotype, but a story. I lived with someone this past summer whose profession actually is "Philosopher." She was a professor, and is still technically employed by a university, but NSF has now contracted her full-time and is basically hiring her "to think." Kind of cool, even if perhaps abnormal :p</p>
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...but most philosophers value thinking over material things, or finding the truth, so it's fine to them.
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<p>There's no reason to believe that philosophy students (or "philosophers" in general) are "more intellectual than thou," to recycle a phrase used elsewhere around these boards. Yes, there are certain qualities that you'll be more likely to see in philosophy students than in students of many other subjects (particularly, but not exclusively non-liberal arts subject). Most of us, though, are not sitting with our heads in the clouds, claiming that we'll be happy going homeless and hungry as long as we're allowed to think. Plenty just, y'know...enjoy (and/or are particularly good at) the subject! Sure, I do think that this "truth above all else" description applies to a very few Phil majors/professors, but "most" is (in my experience) quite misleading. </p>
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...it discusses the issues other classes don't, ie: what is the meaning of life?, does God exist, among various interesting topics. this major may not help you find a job directly, but it can help you satisfy your craving of knowledge on important things no one else cares to talk about.
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<p>Big, big (and very common) misconception here! Many people perceive philosophy as sort of irrelevant...'floating on a higher plane' or what have you. And you're certainly correct that some branches of the subject do focus on questions such as those you pose (although I don't know if I'd categorize them as things that people don't want to talk about...no small amount of blood has been shed over whether and which God exists). Many philosophy classes are taught in a sort of detached way...very theoretical, abstract, lots of "thought experiments" and hypotheticals...and that's fun in its own way, I think. Some students find it very frustrating. But what many people don't realize is that philosophy can (and arguably should) be very practical and applied! There was only one professor at my college who taught super-applied philosophy, and her students' reactions were often split: half were miserable b/c they felt like they weren't actually getting philosophy in the class, but half were in Heaven because philosophy was finally interesting and relevant for them. </p>
<p>It's easy to say that philosophy will help you "satisfy your craving of knowledge on important things no one else cares to talk about," but go sit in on a course like Contemporary Moral Issues. It's a common philosophy course, and it deals with the stuff that everyone wants to talk about. Just an obvious example, though...philosophy can be applied in plenty of other ways: political philosophy, phil of science, phil of mathematics, ethics and morality, epistemology, aesthetics, punishment theory, neuroscience, and so forth. There are whole courses devoted to "The God Problem" or "Ethics of the Beginning and End of Life." There's a lot more to the study of philosophy than just the writings of dead guys. In some cases, it can be surprisingly modern and important, even "cutting edge."</p>
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...and since philosophers value knowledge so much, most planned to further their education anyway, thus going to grad school.
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<p>Meh. This certainly might be true some years at some schools (as it might be in many subjects), but it's not necessarily the case. Six Philosophy majors in my college's class of '07. Three are currently enrolled in any type of grad school, and only one of those is studying Philosophy. I know 1-2 other people (at all, not just in my school or class) who are planning on that route. The others are all across the board in terms of their plans. None of the recent grads I know are unemployed or even working in random "couldn't find any other job" jobs.</p>
<p>Anyway, 4321234, I really do agree with the point you were going after. But I do think that philosophy suffers from a lot of stereotypes, so please forgive me for weighing in at your expense!</p>
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First because you don't believe a degree in philosophy has any use
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<p>Find me some really good careers that specifically ask for a bachelor's in philosophy. In fact, the careers you can get with a philosophy degree you can get with any other degree.</p>
<p>It's a good degree for law school preparation but I think it's too risky to major in it in case you decide later on your don't like law.</p>
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second that you believe anything we're not majoring in is something we're entirely not interested in.
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<p>There's a difference between that and defending it when you're not even majoring in it. Obviously philosophy can't be that good if you decided not to major in it. Even you have seen the light.</p>
<p>I might be close-minded, but at least I didn't spend $30,000+ for a almost unmarketable degree.</p>
<p>Formidable, I'm not even trying to argue against you at this point, but I'm no longer sure I understand your argument. First, you claimed that a philosophy degree is worthless. Now, you claim that "the careers you can get with a philosophy degree you can get with any other degree."</p>
<p>So you're obviously willing to admit that philosophy majors are employable. The course of study might be superfluous, then, in your eyes, but that's different than being worthless. </p>
<p>To me, "worthless" (in this context) implies "you're gonna be living in a cardboard box." But your last post just suggests that when I get to my office, the guy on my left might be an Econ major and the guy on my right might be an English major. I don't see the issue.</p>
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Now, you claim that "the careers you can get with a philosophy degree you can get with any other degree."
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<p>It's worthless if not only are there no specialized careers for it, you can't get a career with it that you can't get with any other degree. A degree in another field will open more doors for you anyway.</p>
<p>What's the point of spending all that money on a degree if you would have had far, far more opportunities with another degree? Just about any other liberal arts degree is better.</p>
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So you're obviously willing to admit that philosophy majors are employable.
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</p>
<p>If you consider lower-tier careers without considering grad school "employable," sure. But you can get these careers with just about any other degree AND if you major in something else, more doors are open for you.</p>
<p>You're entitled to your opinions, but they certainly don't match up with my own experience. And when I disagree, I disagree in part because all of the philosophy majors I know are doing just fine. I don't know of anyone who, once he decided which path he wanted to pursue, found himself hindered by a philosophy degree. Perhaps the people you've known have given you cause to believe differently.</p>
<p>Do you have evidence, either statistical or anecdotal, for your claims? It seems you're just relying on stereotypes, which is common, but still a bit unfair.</p>
<p>My dad went crazy when I declared my philosophy major. Crazy! His comment years before, when I'd first tossed the idea about, had been "What? Don't you want to eat?" And his favorite joke while I was in college was "How do you get a philosophy major off your doorstep? Pay for the pizza!" He was, as you suggest, upset (in part) that he was spending so much money for me to get what he perceived as a worthless degree. But after actually hearing about my classes, speaking with my professors and classmates, seeing the work I was doing, hearing my various internship and career plans, and getting past his prejudice by researching my degree, he really changed his tune (and trust me, this man is all about practicality). He didn't change his mind just because I enjoyed the topic (in fact, he's always loved philosophy). He changed it because he realized that he had been mistaken.</p>
<p>So just to be clear, I really do know your position. I heard it on a daily basis for a good long while. But I would like to know why you hold it, aside from just personal misconceptions.</p>
<p>As a side note, it's worth mentioning that not everyone views an undergraduate experience as a means to one particular career. If all I'd wanted was a degree, I could have gotten one--any, philosophy included--for a heck of a lot cheaper than I did. The money wasn't spent in blind pursuit of a piece of paper. Of course, I do think that employability is a practical concern, and I always kept it in mind, but I also don't feel like I spent thousands of dollars per year for a philosophy degree. Doesn't change any big points...just a clarification based on a few of the above posts.</p>
<p>"What's the point of spending all that money on a degree if you would have had far, far more opportunities with another degree? Just about any other liberal arts degree is better."
Did you ever bother to think that maybe there are some people out there who go to college to learn how to think, not to get a job?</p>
<p>And please, name a better liberal arts degree and give me a reason why they are better (concrete detail please).</p>
<p>Student615, what is your career now? Were you the one planning to go to law school? </p>
<p>ok, so i got a little stereotypical. i am aware that there are philosophy professors who do get paid to think, but i heard grad school for philosophy is ridiculously difficult, and my philosophy professor said, if you're lucky, you can start out with $40,000 as a phil professor, compared to $100,000+ as an MBA. obviously, philosophers aren't after money, but they won't starve by practicing it. even socrates' friends were willing to chip in money for him when he couldn't afford it. lol. </p>
<p>i think formidable is just concerned with philosophers being able to be in high social positions or make lots of money as a sole philosopher. but if you're after money, don't be a philosopher. </p>
<p>"It's worthless if not only are there no specialized careers for it, you can't get a career with it that you can't get with any other degree. A degree in another field will open more doors for you anyway."</p>
<p>so a philosophy degree is the same as any other liberal arts degree, but if they enjoy philosophy, i don't see what's wrong with majoring in it. econ is a liberal arts too.</p>
<p>4321234: I agree with you there. If your goal in life is to make lots of money and you're not 100% positive that you'll follow a philosophy-friendly path, then as majors go, it's probably not your most risk-free option :p</p>
<p>And yes...currently on a gap year, then law. No need for more details in the thread, but feel free to PM.</p>
<p>4321234: While it is true the respective salaries for a profsesor and an MBA (top tier schools only) are very different, keep in mind where you'll me making that money. One of the things very few people on this board seem to realize is that $150,000 in NY is not that much money in terms of purchasing power while $40,000-50,000 in a mid-size city can buy you a pretty decent middle-class life. Just food for thought!</p>