Debating is not allowed on CC so @Creekland and @aunt_bea will have to agree to disagree. It is up to the OP to decide if the pre-health advising at his/her college is adequate for his/her needs (although likely we all agree that he/she certainly should check it out if he/she hasn’t done so already).
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I definitely suggest that this very very young student get a job as a medical assistant or scribe in a doctor’s office or as a MA in a hospital. It is not only to get experience to get into medical school but to see what it is like to be a doctor now. This young person has graduated from college at only 20 suggesting that they have been advanced all along. Many young people choose medicine for unrealistic reasons and I would suggest experiencing it in it’s current state before applying to med school.
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One other thought for the OP. The elephant in the room is costs. If this student hopes to attend medical school in the future, it would be wise to keep schooling costs to a minimum prior to medical school. Getting a PA or MBA after getting a bachelors will very likely be very costly. PA programs have very little financial aid beyond loans. MBAs the same unless you happen to work for an employer who will pay the costs for an MBA. Regardless…a PA or MBA will not really aid in medical school admissions.
A CNA or Medical Assistant certification would be able to be done at a community college. Costs would be nominal, and would give this student the chance to have actual patient contact.
Male CNAs are very much in demand. It’s not easy work but it does pay, and gives experience working with patients.
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Is this a new thing? I personally know students that did GPA repair work and applied and at least one that was in a PhD program but dropped out with a terminal MS once he got into med school. Admittedly, this was many years ago. There are many post-bacc programs too that are not SMP. Can you please elaborate?
You missed feces and in many instances, every form of infectious body fluids. 
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@1dadinNC
SMPS are not a terribly new thing. SMPs have been around for at least 15 years, though there has been a proliferation of them lately. (For many colleges they are huge money-makers.)
GPA repair can be done outside a SMP by taking UL undergrad bio and chem electives at a 4 year college, but the key word here is undergrad.
AMCAS lists an applicant’s grad classes on a separate page/section that’s not part of an applicant’s undergrad academic record. Grad GPAs are also reported separately from undergrad GPAs. Adcomms like to compare apples to apples and typically only consider undergrad coursework/GPA when making interview and admission decisions because most med school applicants don’t have any graduate work. Additionally, adcomms know that grad classes have significant grade inflation (much higher than what’s seen in undergrad) and tend to discount non-thesis MS bio degrees and most other Master’s degrees for this reason.
The current thought w/r/t med school is that grad degree won’t help, but it can still hurt an applicant’s chances. A less than excellent grad GPA (<3.7 or 3.75) is usually be considered as black mark against an applicant.
Likewise nowadays an applicant leaving a grad degree program prior to completing it is considered a black mark. (If the applicant bailed on XX, how do we know they won’t quit med school also?) Many (most? all?) secondaries require an applicant to disclose if they are currently enrolled in a grad program, when they expect to graduate and explain their reasons for leaving if prior to completion.
Many of the GPA-enhancing, grad degree-granting, post-bacc programs you’re likely familiar with are actually SMPs–Georgetown, Tufts, Drexel, Temple, Eastern VA, Columbia, Loyola, BU, Cincinnati, Tulane, Case, etc.
(See a list of SMPs here: https://career.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/MorePostBacs.pdf)
To be fully transparent, all DO schools do include grad coursework when computing GPAs and making admission decisions. There are also a small number of MD schools (Wayne State, for example) that only consider an applicant’s most recent coursework regardless of level.
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Lets get back on topic…OP doesn’t seem to need/want GPA enhancing degrees.
Feel free to start a new thread on that topic if anyone wants to explore that in more depth.
Yeah not looking for GPA enhancing degree. Looking for options on what is best to do in the 1-2 years after undergrad while prepping for MCAT and getting clinical experience. Can any of you give some information on MPH programs too. He took SAT to get into Undergrad . What test/exam does he need to take to get into an MPH program.
He would need to take the GRE, but this may not pertain to all schools. You need to check.
I question why you/student would want to spend money on an MPH if the end goal is medical school, which is very costly.
Why not spend the time studying for the mcats, volunteering, shadowing etc…and maybe working part time in underserved communities?
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A masters in public health is a two year masters degree program.
I guess my question is…why do you think another college degree after undergrad is a good idea for a medical school possible student.
From what I have seen…these kids get their bachelors degrees…then they volunteer with underserved populations, shadow docs, and work in things like EMS, CNA, Medical Assistant. And they spend the time prepping for the MCAT. They do not pursue other degrees at the same time. I’m sure there are students who do…but I don’t know any who did.
This my suggestion to get CNA certification and get a job as a CNA…where he will get hands on patient experience. He won’t get that with a MPH, MBA. MPH and MBA are full time courses of study.
Also…be prepared…you will be paying for all schooling beyond the bachelors degree. Not much funding for these other programs…including medical school…just loans, loans and more loans.
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Other things that med school hopefuls often participate in post college are Americorp and Teach for American. TFA requires a 2 year minimum commitment; Americorp requires 1 year.
Peace Corps is another activity that is looked on favorably by adcomms. Peace Corps requires a 28 month commitment.
All these activities show a commitment to be of service to others–a key component of a strong med school application.
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There are a very wide variety of MPH programs, including some 100% online programs. Some are prestigious; others are just a piece of paper.
A MPH isn’t a general degree. It requires the student to have a specific area of interest to focus in on. Some typical focuses are: mental health, global health & environment, women’s & reproductive health, epidemiology, biostatistics, healthcare policy, environmental health, infectious diseases & vaccinology, healthcare leadership, healthcare informatics, nutritional sciences, health behavior & education, food policy…
Entry into a MPH does not require an specific undergrad major (although a strong background in statistics and mathematics is strongly recommended). MPH applicants will need to take the GRE and write a statement of purpose. Some MPH programs require 2-5 years of prior public health experience.
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Here’s UR’s med school class profile for the class of 2025. Feel free to google and you can get several year’s worth of profiles showing it’s more or less a template. They look for the same types of things year in and year out. I doubt they’re the only med school looking for these attributes. As I tell students who want to head to med school, “Be someone the school can write about.”
From the link:
Most of you graduated with Latin Honors, including a large number who
were Summa or Magna Cum Laude. Additionally, many of your class graduated
Phi Beta Kappa, Phi Kappa Phi, Tau Beta Pi and or with other departmental, and
university or national honors society and recognitions. These awards show that
you’ve collectively had an incredible academic prowess and we are humbled
before your accomplishments. But in addition to these well-known awards, we
recognize that you have had even more profound accomplishments, many that
don’t come with certificates or applause, but still impacted the lives of
communities, organizations and people all around you. Congratulations.
Your desire to deeply and meaningfully work in marginalized communities
has led you to work in AmeriCorps, Teach for America and as Jesuit Service Corp
members. More than 50% of you worked or learned in an overseas setting. From
Sudan to Taipei, Japan to Bangalore, Greece to Nicaragua you have been impacted
by what life looks like outside the confines of your hometowns and you are wiser
for it. The University of Rochester celebrates your interest in a wide lens of
experiences and we hope an equal or greater number of you continue your global
reach in this phase of your transformation.
In order to be accepted to the University of Rochester, it is a must that you
have worked outside your comfort zone; your class has shown heart and passion
surpassing the average applicant. Many of you have worked with agencies in our
inner cities, refugee camps and prisons, reaching out to those who suffer the
greatest disparities in health care in our world. All of you have volunteered in
various outreach opportunities, alternative summer breaks, health care brigades and
other college or religious sponsored organizations and have made an impact on the
health and wellness of communities. If there is a hospital clinic or possibility to
help someone, someone in this room has volunteered in that opportunity and more
importantly, have LOVED working within it. The Class of 2025 you have reached
out to those people in need, regardless of pandemics, lock-downs, distance or
personal hardship encountered.
You have really unique interests and accomplishments that display heart and
soul to this class. To name just a few: you have built houses in Nicaragua, worked
in reforming criminal justice systems, accompanied those with terminal illness to
their deaths, joined teams for disaster relief, and supported housing insecurity and
homelessness. You have worked to distribute Covid 19 vaccines at your own peril,
been asylum advocates, led clinics such as Planned Parenthood and served our
LGBTQ community. You have served communities not only in English, but
Spanish, Chinese and Arabic. I am particularly proud of the overwhelming number
of people concerned about the marginalized in their communities, combatting
racism, sexism, misogynies, xenophobia, ableism and ageism; populations easily
ignored. This is a class overflowing with advocates and advocacy – the number of
people who have worked in community or as community organizers, in organized
politics or on committees to foster change is simply breathtaking. From intimate
partner violence, rape, suicide prevention, deportation and the bias against
marginalized populations, you are there for your communities twenty-four seven.
Your graciousness and innovative spirt is the essence of our progress. The
University of Rochester is a fertile ground for your ideas to take root, please don’t
lose the opportunity to harness the power of your collective classes’ talents and
skills to be innovators and collective sparks.
Oh… and the class of 2025’s your previous lives are fascinating. Many of
you are EMT trained, but you have also been NIH clinical research coordinators,
admissions officers, journalists, therapists, and case managers. Most of you have
had jobs and know the value of clocking in and clocking out, living paycheck to
paycheck as office workers, baristas, research coordinators, food service workers,
and nannies. Stop and think about the collective experiences you come here with.
Harness this talent and skill to improve our house of medicine. For those of you
who have worked part time, full time and sometimes, don’t forget the lessons these
jobs have given you, for they are true for your “job in medicine” - be on time, be
prepared, be respectful and be respected.
To relax you have enjoyed a wide variety of interests, many common, but
some less common. Your class has a true love for music and reading! We couldn’t
be happier. Additionally, this is a class of bakers – sourdough breads, cookies,
muffins, cakes, tarts… I officially christen this class the “sourdough starters”. As
per usual for the U of R, we have a remarkable, full symphony of musical talent.
Not just ‘quarantine talent” but professional talent – with two of your classmates
professionally trained in music theory and music performance. Your class talent
show has the potential to rival the Eastman School of Music and “On Call” our
medical school acapella group will not only have voice and singing available to it,
but beat box and musical theater to add to our repertoire. In a city that is home to
the Eastman School of Music, you have a unique opportunity to continue to play
and appreciate some of the best music in the world, I hope you take advantage of
it.
Now bizarrely, we have collected a class that almost universally loves
hiking, backpacking, rock climbing and trail running – the Adirondacks are just a
short drive away, and we hope you explore the Finger Lakes and the hills, home to
some beautiful countryside and sports in which to enjoy these passions. We have
four team members from D1 Varsity athletics in this class, Track and Field,
Synchronized Swimming, Cross Country and Skiing. We have multiple D3
athletics represented in Softball, Swimming, Track & Field, Soccer, Diving,
Squash, Alpine Skiing, and Ultimate Frisbee. We have an exceptional coterie of
club athletes representing martial arts, hockey, dance, sailing and fencing. Your
personal activities abound in sports such as soccer, dance, skiing, ice skating,
marathons, long distance running, power lifting and football. Please DON’T
STOP taking care of your body in the upcoming years, it is vital to your long-term
success.
All of you have shown deep a curiosity and a need to answer questions with
rigor and patience. The sacrifice of a Sunday football game and social events so
you could run a gel, or mine a data base in order to scratch the “itch of curiosity” is
a theme that is represented in the class of 2025. Impressively, 44 of you have spent
greater than a 1000 hours or more in your research endeavor. Most of you have
done your work in the natural sciences but also in anthropology, humanities,
archeology, and history. Helping us earn our name the liberal arts school of
medicine. You have not only engaged in clinical, lab and bench work, but also in
qualitative work. Your interest in science is vast, ranging from meditation research
to planetary health, archeology to how mRNA of vaccines affect populations, STI
research in Fijians to cell signaling; from molecular mechanisms of single
organisms to research in diseases that affect vast numbers of people such as
Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. You have spanned the range from micro to macro
inquiry. Regardless of the type of research, the universal theme in your class is
quality work. I personally resonate with those of you that spoke of research as a
lesson in humility and sometimes failure alongside the reality of so many of you
who whose labs have been canceled and closed and shuttered through this
pandemic; yet you have found a way to thrive. As research is a key pillar to our
institution’s mission, we want to encourage you to not STOP being curious, it is
this very attribute that will change the lives of your patients and the world around
you.
For many of you, medicine is a family business, about 35 of you have
parents that have served in medicine in some capacity. But for a large number of
you, you have had no immediate family in medicine. Your family is in IT, work in
department stores, drive for UBER, are adventure outfitters, business owners, gig
workers, PhD researchers, custodial workers, care assistants, artists, lawyers,
teachers, sales specialists, counselors, and the unsung hero of all jobs – the
homemaker. Some of you have raised yourself alone either physically or
psychologically. As you can see, many of you have had absolutely no family in
which to model your future medical aspirations. However, for all of you, someone
in your family has been your inspiration, either family you were born to or family
you joined, because they were there supporting you, believing in you and
reminding you of the power of your potential. Please remember to celebrate with
them, they deserve a massive thank you and a giant warm hug.
It is remarkable and inspiring to see all that you have achieved in such a
short period of time and, for many of you, against all odds. Class of 2025, you are
the children of the pandemic, you have achieved success despite cancellations and
confusion; you will be remembered not only for your minds and abilities but your
flexibility. While things may not be “normal”, you are learning lessons that will
help you thrive in the variety of environments of the future. Regardless of how you
arrived here, you have excelled and surpassed every milestone set before you.
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If you are interest in Peace Corps…read here. Also, it can take a year from application to a placement appointment. So…plan ahead.
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Thank you so much.
We started looking into MPH program requirements . He is working as a part time student worker at a hospital - answering the phone for appointments , reminder calls , scanning , faxing etc and checking weights and heights of patients . I wonder if that counts as public health experience.
No, that’s not public health experience.
Nor is it clinical experience for med school applications.
Public health is the science of protecting and improving the health of people and their communities. This work is achieved by promoting healthy lifestyles, researching disease and injury prevention, and detecting, preventing and responding to infectious diseases. Overall, public health is concerned with protecting the health of entire populations. These populations can be as small as a local neighborhood, or as big as an entire country or region of the world.
What is Public Health? | CDC Foundation
See also: What is public health?
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If I may be blunt, everyone here is telling you including some very wise/experienced posters that a Masters/PA degree is a bad idea. But for whatever reason, that suggestion is not to your liking. Maybe you can tell us why exactly that is versus everything else that has been recommended to you?
No it’s doesn’t count as public health experience. See post above by @WayOutWestMom
Please, please explain why you don’t think it’s a good idea to get a CNA, or EMS certification, or Medical Assistant…or something that will give this young student some hands on patient contact? That is what he needs.
He doesn’t need a PA, MBA or MPH…unless he wants to work in those fields.
If he wants to be a doctor, none of these will be advantageous when he applies to medical school…but hands on patient contact as a CNA (for example) would show that he understands hands on patient contact.
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Here are some example of public health work (done by actual students I know)
–teaching nutrition and healthy eating habits to Spanish-speaking immigrant farm-workers as part of a diabetes prevention program
– developing a self-sustaining community garden in a neighborhood that doesn’t have access to fresh produce. Holding cooking classes to teach people how to cook/use those vegetables and incorporate them into their daily diet
–setting up a needle exchange program in rural community which has a high rate of IV drug use. Setting up includes developing sustaining funding for the program from the state government
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Please listen.
If your student wants to apply to medical school, they will need to prep for the MCAT. Do not underestimate how time consuming and important this is.
Once they receive their MCAT score and know their sGPA and GPA from undergrad, they will need to research the medical school options appropriate. Most medical school students apply to 20 or more medical schools…some a combination of MD and DO schools.
If your kid gets a request for a secondary from any medical school, your kid will need to complete that secondary and they are all individual….meaning one for each medical school. And the window for completion is a short one.
The student should also be getting direct hands on patient experience and volunteering with an underserved population in some way. They should also be shadowing doctors…perhaps one long term shadowing, and also some time spent with doctors in different disciplines.
During this time, it is my opinion that this student should not be pursuing an advanced degree program in another field like MPH, MBA or PA unless they plan to work in one of those fields.
Please also, don’t underestimate the costs associated with applying to and attending medical school. There are application fees, and addition fees associated with the secondaries. For each medical school. And the cost to attend medical school is staggering…and primarily funded with loans, loans and more loans for the aspiring doctor.
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