<p>I've been accepted to both the University of Pittsburgh and Bucknell, but I can't decide which one I should go to. I'm going to be majoring in neuroscience. I got a nice amount of money from Pitt, but I feel like Bucknell might be the better school. Any advice?</p>
<p>I have experiences in the Neurosciences at Pitt, Penn, Miami, and UCSF, and hands down, 100%, Pitt is the place you want to be for Neuroscience for a ton of reasons. I’ll touch on a few here.</p>
<p>First, Pitt has one of the oldest undergraduate neuroscience programs in the country. They’ve been providing undergraduate teaching in research training in this field long before it became the trendy undergrad major that it is today. Pitt has a very well-polished program and is experienced in both its curriculum and in the facilitation of undergraduate research opportunities, that later of which is critical. Neuroscience at Pitt is itself a Department, not just a major run by a biology program.</p>
<p>However, one of the most important facts is that Pitt is one of the world’s leading biomedical research centers. Pitt is #5 nationally in the amount of research funding it receives from the National Institute of Health (NIH). NIH research support is the major mechanism by which academic bioscience and medical research is funded in the US, and the amount of funding is a direct reflection on both the quality and quantity of research activity at any one place. In this regard, Bucknell isn’t even remotely close to being on the map. Neuroscience is a research discipline. Most of your real learning of science will come in the laboratory, not in the classroom. And by laboratory, I do not mean a classroom laboratory: I mean a real research laboratory with a professor conducting original research to be published and in which you might be volunteering or doing independent research. The classroom is important for providing the background, but even that is greatly enhanced if it is reinforced by what you might be doing in a laboratory. Even if the catalogue of undergraduate neuroscience courses is similar at Bucknell (which I doubt because it just wouldn’t have the faculty resources to provide them), there is just no way small liberal arts schools can compare in the research aspect, and it is a critical one for any bioscience discipline. </p>
<p>An additional benefit of research at Pitt is that it has one of the nation’s leading medical research centers right on the undergrad campus. Therefore, not only is there a myriad of highly regarded laboratories and research opportunities to choose from, but it is as conveniently located as it could possibly be, and not many schools offer this convenience. </p>
<p>The other thing about the undergraduate program of the Department of Neuroscience at Pitt is that it is a component of the School of Arts & Sciences. This means that teaching is an important component for the faculty there. It is actually a pretty tight-knit group which not only has some internationally known neuroscientists, but all of them that I’ve known are extremely dedicated not only to teaching in the classroom, but encouraging and teaching students how to conduct real research. All of the neuroscience classes that I had at Pitt were among the best that I had at the school. That said, the Department falls under the umbrella of the Center for Neuroscience, which includes a wide-breadth and huge number of labs conducting neuroscience-related research throughout the university. That means you’ll be able to work in any number of labs that may conduct research that interests you, even those in the more research-intensive medical school.</p>
<p>If you want to continue on to become a scientist, your research experience will be your most important component of your education. It is also very beneficial if you decide to apply to medical or other professional health programs after undergrad. Bottom line, find a lab that interests you as early as you can and start working in it. That experience will be key, and an ultimate goal should also be to try to gain some sort of publication authorship by the time you graduate. You’ll have a significantly better chance of this at a school like Pitt. Really, if you want to do Neurosciences and stay in Pennsylvania, your two real choices are Pitt and UPenn in Philly.</p>
<p>wgm, very convincing…</p>
<p>how do I sign up?</p>
<p>wow that is very thorough, wgm. +1</p>
<p>** Pitt or Bucknell for undergrad neuro ? **</p>
<p>Pitt, definitely.</p>
<p>wgm, thank you – very informative post.</p>
<p>wgm,</p>
<p>Are there other schools that you would recommend over Pitt for neuroscience (research/ not psychology)?</p>
<p>Not in PA. Perhaps Penn, because it is an Ivy, but there is going to be a big price tag difference. Honestly, I think the undergrad experience for Neuro may be better at Pitt than Penn, but Penn is probably better for graduate school because of the prestige factor. Penn is #3 in NIH money after Harvard and John Hopkins. Any graduate PhD program in the biosciences will include free tuition and living expense stipends so you might want to consider saving money at the undergrad level. </p>
<p>In any case, the most important school for which ever step in your career you currently find yourself, is the last one you attended. One also doesn’t generally want to go to the same school for a graduate program. Either Pitt or Penn in this field is a great choice as far as training and it just depends which one you like better and which whether or not you want pay for the prestige of an Ivy League degree at the undergrad level. </p>
<p>Outside PA, there are many great choices for Neuro. When you investigate it, the two things to consider are the research prowess in this area, and the commitment the school has to the undergrad neuroscience component. Honestly, I don’t think it is a good idea to go to a neuro program at a school that just added it as a major because it is trendy, and this is happening at a lot of places these days. Those aren’t real neuroscience programs, and they won’t prepare students nearly as well for graduate school. Students in these programs will benefit greatly from doing short summer research programs at schools like Pitt and Penn with larger research programs, but these programs are way too short to follow through any actual project and thus the chance of of publishing anything as an undergrad in such a situation is extremely low. However, obviously, be aware that the culture of some of the major research schools make their faculty less worried about teaching than making sure their departments are flush with grant money, so you want to find a good middle ground. Both Penn and Pitt are good here. (BTW, Penn’s undergrad neuroscience program is called the Biological Basis of Behavior). Now, honestly, I mostly have direct experience with both undergrad programs at Penn and Pitt so I can’t speak specifically to the undergrad Neuroscience programs at other schools. I can tell you has good reputations for graduate level studies. </p>
<p>A simplistic way is to just list the top 10 NIH recipients and you’ll have a good idea of the bioscience faculty there:</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard (reputation for extremely stressful graduate programs and faculty positions)</li>
<li>John Hopkins</li>
<li>Penn</li>
<li>UCSF (only graduate schools)</li>
<li>Pitt</li>
<li>University of Washington</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Michigan</li>
<li>Washington University (St. Louis)</li>
</ol>
<p>All these in the NIH funding top 10 are excellent choices, and at the graduate level, they probably have a better traditional reputation than Pitt. Pitt is sort of the neuveau riche school in bioscience research among these other blue bloods. Also, the usual suspects are going to be good as well: Columbia, Yale, Stanford, Chicago etc, but I’m not familiar with their undergrad neuroscience components to directly comment on how they run them.</p>
<p>Oh, and I do think for undergrads, there is a distinct advantage to schools that have their medical centers on or near their undergrad campus. Both Pitt and Penn have that. It just makes things so much easier to find a good research lab that you like, and be able to run in and out of the lab in between classes and the other social aspects of the undergraduate experience.</p>
<p>Awesome, thanks so much! So academically-speaking, it sounds like pitt is the better choice for neuroscience. </p>
<p>Does anybody know how Pitt and Bucknell compare in other ways? For example, the student body at Bucknell sounds like it might consist of a lot of upper-middle-class an upper-class preppy white kids and that doesn’t really appeal to me. Plus Lewisburg is known as a small town with not much to do outside of the campus. However, the professors are supposed to be really great and the class size is fairly small. At Pitt I’m especially worried about the class sizes and whether or not the professors care enough to see their students as people and not just numbers. I’m used to being a fairly big fish in a fairly small pond and, although I don’t know much about it, I’m afraid that I might be overwhelmed by the Univerisity of Pittsburgh. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>I think part of why Pitt is so strong in neuroscience is because of the Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, which is right on campus. In 2005, Pitt’s medical school ranked #1 in NIH grants for psychiatry with Penn at #2 ([The</a> Official Ranking of US Psychiatry Departments](<a href=“http://www.residentphysician.com/Psychiatry_rankings.htm]The”>http://www.residentphysician.com/Psychiatry_rankings.htm)). </p>
<p>It is kind of hard to talk about the strengths of the undergrad neuroscience departments with only statistics for the medical and graduate schools, but if research is the OP’s career goal, I think Pitt would be the better choice.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Intro classes at Pitt are big. My intro bio, chem, and psych classes at Pitt all were around 250 people, but our recitations (required meeting time for the class where you go over info and problems) consisted of fewer people (20 in my chem recitation). I’m pretty sure large intro classes are the case at most schools. As you progress to higher level courses, the classes should get significantly smaller.</p>
<p>Percent of Classes under 20 students
Pittsburg = 45%
Bucknell = 55%</p>
<p>Percent of Classes over 49 students:
Pittsburg = 16%
Bucknell = 3%</p>
<p>Average Class Size
Pittsburg = 22 students
Bucknell = 18 students</p>
<p>Percent Graduating in 6 years
Pittsburg = 76%
Bucknell = 88%</p>
<p>A couple of things. Pitt and Bucknell are very different kinds of schools. Bucknell is a small private rural liberal arts school with no grad programs. Pitt is a mid-sized national public urban research university with graduate programs that are larger than you’d typically find for the size of the undergraduate population. If you aren’t comfortable in a larger urban research school type of setting, than you should consider other options. You just don’t want to be miserable for four years: that will do you no good no mater what your interests are. Remember that you’ll never get a chance to relive your undergraduate experience. Visits are a must if the atmosphere is an issue for you. Don’t be afraid to call up the Department of Neuroscience and specifically ask if it is possible to meet with someone to discuss any questions and concerns.</p>
<p>The intro classes are big at Pitt in comparison to Bucknell, as was mentioned above, but this is nowhere near the size of intro classes at a place like PSU where they can be over 500 to even 1000. Recitations are designed to keep you from getting lost in the crowd, but there are still certain expectation that you show some self-initiative. That said, I never had a professor that wasn’t willing to meet with a student. As you progress through your major, the classes get smaller and smaller. If you join a lab, you definitely won’t get lost. As I mentioned, the Department of Neuroscience is a tight knit group a few blocks from the med campus in Crawford Hall across from the Cathedral of Learning. If you are a Neuro major, you’ll be taken care of. As I mentioned, call them up and ask if there is someone who can advise you about their program.</p>
<p>As far as Pitt Neuroscience being good because of WPIC, it certainly doesn’t hurt to have excellent psychology as there is some research overlap in the neurosciences, but the Center for Neuroscience, which serves as the umbrella, isn’t really due to clinical psych. CNUP consists of faculty from the Dept. Neurobiology, Dept. of Neurology, Psychiatry, the Center for the Neurobasis of Cognition, and the Department of Neuroscience. Of course there are professors from many other departments too, including bioengineering and even math. There is just a ton of neuroscience at Pitt. Neuroscience is really a major strength of the research being done there, but the quality isn’t due to any one component, but rather the breadth.</p>
<p>As an interesting anecdote, I just had a conversation with a faculty member on the admission committee for Penn’s graduate Neuroscience program and this person was bemoaning the fact they lost one of the best candidates that they brought in to interview, who also had offers from Harvard, to Pitt. This candidate decided to do his graduate work at Pitt where he is a undergrad neuroscience major working in the lab I used to work in.</p>
<p>Here are some links:
Pitt Department of Neuroscience: [Department</a> of Neuroscience | University of Pittsburgh](<a href=“http://www.neuroscience.pitt.edu/]Department”>http://www.neuroscience.pitt.edu/)
Training faculty in the CNUP: [Training</a> Faculty](<a href=“http://cnup.neurobio.pitt.edu/people/faculty.aspx?by=x1]Training”>http://cnup.neurobio.pitt.edu/people/faculty.aspx?by=x1) </p>
<p>BTW, yes, I should disclaim that I have a BS and PhD in Neuroscience and did my undergrad at Pitt.</p>
<p>I have a BSChE from a college that combines the research capabilities of Pittsburg with the smaller undersgraduate school attention of Bucknell, and although I prefer the smaller undergraduate schools I would be split in deciding between these two, Pittsburg and Bucknell in the area desired…</p>
<p>oh and JohnAdams12, Pittsburgh has an h in it… lol I just had to point that out because you misspelled it multiple times.</p>
<p>wgmcp101, you said you went to Pitt for undergrad neuroscience. Do you know anything about the networking for job opportunities after graduation? Or getting into grad schools? Ideally I’d like to do degenerative brain disorder research (especially Alzheimer’s), so I’m not really sure what I’m going to be doing after graduation. If there were great job connections, that would be really great.</p>
<p>jbeanerie, Pitt is excellent in Alzheimer’s. It’s where “The Pittsburgh Compound” was developed to assess the amount of beta-amyloid in PET imaging. You want to check out the Pitt ADRC ([ADRC</a> - Alzheimer Disease Research Center - University of Pittsburgh](<a href=“Dr. William Klunk and Dr. Oscar Lopez take part in Brain Day 2017 at the University of Pittsburgh’s Brain Institute | Alzheimer's Disease Research Center”>http://www.adrc.pitt.edu/)). Before you even get to Pitt, look over the faculty lists in the ARDC and CNUP and see if someone’s research strikes your interest. Then email them and tell them you are interested in volunteering in their lab (and why) and when you’ll be starting at Pitt. Popular labs can fill up, so volunteering early in your career can give you a jump on getting a foot in the door. Don’t be offended if a lab doesn’t have space for you, it happens, but most are happy to take volunteers. It also give you a trial to see if you like the research before you start an independent study project.</p>
<p>BTW, neurodegenerative diseases is the field I’m in, mostly concentrating in HIV-associated dementias. Smaller schools will have little to no neurodegenerative disease research because they can’t afford to in vivo animal experiments or the more expensive primary cell tissue culturing. They also have no post-docs and few or no grad students. They just don’t have the facilities and resources. Most of the smaller schools that have biology will dabble in botany or fly genetics, cell lines, or something like that. </p>
<p>One of the most important things in picking a lab is to pick one where you have a genuine interest in the research that they are doing. The other critical criteria is that the Principal Investigator is a good person and the lab seems like a good environment to work in. You don’t want to end up in a lab where everyone is miserable no matter how prestigious or interesting it is, trust me. </p>
<p>As far as networking for a science job, that networking will take place mostly by the contacts you make in lab, including the PI, etc. For grad school, the letters of recommendation are going to come from the people that supervise your work (like a post-doc), the PI, and maybe some lecturers of your classes. The bigger the name, the more weight it might carry in a grad admission committee at a particular school, and that is another advantage of going to Pitt. As far as industry jobs, Bio and Pharma science are actually young and very small industries, where most people know each other. The more well connected the PI is, the better. Professors in science at smaller liberal arts schools like Bucknell are not known or connected because they aren’t doing the research. That doesn’t at all mean that you won’t be successfully able to get into a graduate program, but again, I just don’t feel there is one single advantage of Bucknell over a school like Penn or Pitt for preparing you for a career in science…all things being equal…that is with the caveat that you don’t mind the larger urban setting of those types of schools.</p>
<p>Wow, thank you so much!</p>
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<p>there is one enormous advantage: at selective liberal arts colleges the faculty, while expected to be actively involved in research, are there for YOU, the undergraduate. and all the available data make it abundantly clear that these somehow ‘disadvantaged’ lac graduates still get into great graduate programs at incredible rates. year after year. its a miracle!</p>
<p>thats not to take away anything from what pitt can offer. but when more (in absolute numbers) bucknell graduates are getting into the biological and biomedical sciences program at harvard than pitt or psu, wisconsin, johns hopkins, chicago, columbia, washu–well, graduates of all but 12 schools in the country–the school is clearly doing something other than pounding out research very, very well.</p>
<p>" bucknell graduates are getting into the biological and biomedical sciences program at harvard "</p>
<p>Seriously? What does that completely miscellaneous factoid mean? There are many reasons students, post-docs, and even faculty don’t necessarily want to end up in Harvard bioscience labs. It’s ultra-competitive, collaboration-crushing reputation is a big one. Personally, I can think of a dozen schools I rather work at first. Preferentially, however, you should be picking a grad school based on a lab if you can figure out what kind of research you want to pursue.</p>
<p>Seriously, don’t take anyone’s word for it on a anonymous message board, even mine. Be skeptical, and check things out for yourself. Be proactive, that is probably the best advice.</p>