<p>"The Ivies, Tufts, Wellesley and others give NO merit aid...period, not even to their best musicians or athletes on the undergrad level."</p>
<p>The kid two houses down plays ball for Amherst (baby Ivy) they reached down 150 SAT points for him and put together a "preferential package". So much for, "no merit aid period". He can't dance.. but he can pitch. Julliard stays on the list. Let's deal with academic merit please. Looking forward to reading YOUR list. -OP</p>
<p>Ngale - I was pleased when I saw the topic title because I think this is a helpful approach. If it requires a little tweaking, fine. I think I know what we are talking about here. Can a kid with good grades and SAT scores get a discount off list price? Yes, the % discount will vary from school to school and will depend on how good is good and how high is high. That is what we will be looking and hoping for! My son will be applying to several colleges that cost $45k/year. If we can get $15k... or even $10k off that price, I will be THRILLED!! :)</p>
<p>Hi NJres. Yes! That would be terrific to get a 10 or 15K discount PER YEAR. Make sure it is not a one time grant for a single year that may not be renewed or that is based on the need to continually post a relatively high GPA. Enrollment counselors use all data available to get a feel for how deep in debt you may choose to go. Not unlike a car salesman they know that often times a one time, nominal discount, will be enough to push you over the edge. I'm hearing about kids being pulled from thier dream schools because without CONTINUED aid it became unaffordable. Sad.</p>
<p>"Make sure it is not a one time grant for a single year that may not be renewed or that is based on the need to continually post a relatively high GPA."</p>
<p>I have heard of this too. I must say that my son did not get any offers like that. He was offered merit awards from 5 schools, and none were for less than the 4 years (provided requirements were met-this is also why many kids leave-they do not meet the requirements).</p>
<p>Hey Bethel, you said, "I don't know how productive or useful this thread is... My DD was offered significant merit aid from Gettysburg and Union and the same goes for my DS at Lafayette."</p>
<p>What does "significant" mean? Significant for you may still be unaffordable for most families. Please don't be shy about posting how much was offered, folks do it all the time here. Let's not build false hope based on vague terms. From what I've learned if your D or S was offered big bucks from Union, Lafayette, and to a limited extent Gettysburg, they must have Ivy like stats because these places tend to be pretty tight fist-ed. Let's get stats and monetary amounts out there. Don't be shy. What you put out my be very helpful to fellow posters looking at these three top notch schools. Congrats on having such bright kids.</p>
<p>Nightingale,
Just to clarify your post on the first page, there is no Dickinson College in NJ (I live in NJ). There is a school called Farleigh Dickinson University. The Dickinson College I was referring to is in Carlisle, PA.</p>
<p>Thanks for the list, Nightingale. Newer CC parents like myself are extremely thankful. I've been distressed to learn how little merit $$$ is available at many top schools, hence my screen name. As our kids narrow down a list of schools to reach for, it is so helpful to be realistic about chances for $$$. Not many schools look so great if the price tag is $190,000. Or even $100,000. I'd be very interested in a quantitative definition of "significant." With clear disclosure of how much was awarded for merit, need, or special talent.</p>
<p>Another question for you all: Which schools offer merit aid for their students who perform exceptionally well once they are in college? Many schools only offer merit aid to incoming freshman, and at the top universities one has to have invented or discovered something in order to even be considered in the running for merit aid. Those of us from small town America are often completely overlooked, yet our kids can be successful, too, once they become a part of an intellectually challenging evironment that perhaps was not available to them in h.s.</p>
<p>Lehigh was very upfront about stating that their merit awards were for freshman year only and are used to entice what they consider to be desireable students to attend. This was at a large info session and the speaker was the assistant dean of admissions.</p>
<p>My daughters school only offers need based- for some students- even paying your EFC is a huge chunk- however for exceptionally qualified students ( who have need) there are other scholarships( in addition to school aid) after freshman year that are available that can cover parent/student contribution</p>
<p>I think that often a family wants to brag about a scholarship offer, when it is actually financial aid. This leads to confusion & disappointment when merit-based aid turns out to be non-existent for other kids who apply. </p>
<p>This causes a great deal of anger here in NJ at the high school level. Kids can get financial aid for private high schools, but tell friends & neighbors that the kid was "recruited for (fill in the sport.)" Also, top students can get academic scholarships to the boys Catholic high schools. Public school families, who are sick of being trounced in sports by the elite Catholics, cry foul & claim recruiting is going on if these top students happen to be top athletes, too. In fact, the academic scholarship requirements are pretty cut-and-dry. Earn a top score on an admissions exam or a seperate scholarship exam.</p>
<p>Vassar only gives need based FA. However, it is possible to get "merit aid" within the need based FA. It is not unusual for some schools to have "merit" awards or endowed scholarships that are based on need. </p>
<p>For example Bryn Mawr and Mount Holyoke both offer leadership scholarship/awards ranging from 40,000 to 100,000 over the course of 4years. </p>
<p>The financial aid package would usually list the scholarship given or simply state that the scholarship would be a ________ college/university general scholarship.</p>
<p>It is also confusing as to what colleges classify as "need-based" vs. "merit". I've been studying the CDS (common data set) for the colleges currently on my daughter's list. Right now, I'm trying to determine her chances for aid at these schools using the CDS data. As a very simple exercise, I'm dividing the # of Freshman, by the number receiving non-need based aid to determine the percentage of the incoming class who actually receive merit aid, and then compare the average dollar amounts given. I also compare her "stats" to those accepted, to see if she falls in the top 25% (assuming the likelihood of receiving some of the merit $ is higher). It is interesting. </p>
<p>What I find more interesting, however, is that many colleges who give little or no merit aid, also seem to give very generous need-based aid. Looking at Tufts, for example (not the CDS, but rather just their own fact list), I noticed that 40% of the need-based scholarship recipients had family incomes above $90,000!!! (if I'm reading it correctly). Obviously I don't know the whole financial picture of these families, and I realize that it depends on their other debt, cost-of-living locations, etc. However, I typically don't consider this family income as qualifying for need. On the other hand, I could not find the average dollar amounts given. It could be lots of token awards. </p>
<p>So, I'm just as confused as ever ;-). Our original intent was to discourage her from applying to colleges that give no merit aid. Now, while we will still encourage her to apply to a couple of financial safeties (i.e. our state schools), I think we will be including some of the others as well, and just see what happens.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What I find more interesting, however, is that many colleges who give little or no merit aid, also seem to give very generous need-based aid.
[/quote]
I'm in a small minority on CC but I prefer schools that do NOT give merit aid ... why? ... because schools have limited bucks for aid and if they are giving a lot of merit they have less bucks for need based aid. We'll never be privy to the inner workings of a school but I believe you if research which schools offer needs blind admissions (or close), a commitment to fund 100% of the student's need above the EFC (or close), and typical or better definitions of the EFC that schools that do all 3 of these typically do not give merit aid (or give very little merit aid) ... and I do not believe that is a coincidence at all.</p>
<p>IF a family has an income of $90,000, but Tufts is $45,000 a year- that still seems to indicate that there would be some need there.
Perhaps not much, but I don't expect families to pay half their before tax income on school expenses, especially not if there are other dependents/expenses</p>
<p>kjofkw -
here is the link to U of Chicago's financial aid page, and is consistant with our experience. My son's aid was a bit lower than average for our bracket, but we have a small family and no other children in school. Remember that finaid will consist of a grant, loan, and possibly work-study component (if you qualify). </p>
<p>Please be aware that colleges don't really care what your debt is - they look at income and assets. 'Assets' are handled differently by various school - so you may need to dig deeper than collegeboard's EFC calculator. Also, don't be like me and forget to add 401 contributions back into income when you are doing the estimate. Duh!</p>
<p>Yes it is possible for a family with an income of 90,000 to get some generous need based FA. However, the school would be looking at other factors such as :</p>
<p>amount of home equity
if family is self employed
age of the parents
number of children in college
monies paid for secondary education
health care expenses
care of elderly parents /family members
some sort of hardship.</p>