Please Help a Torn Student between PRINCETON AND COLUMBIA ENGINEERING!

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
1

<p>Hi guys
I have checked many threads and websites but still can’t make up my mind!
I am an international student from Tunisia, so I would appreciate a diverse and tolerant campus!
I wonder how is the social life in both schools with no alcohol :p ?</p>

<p>Anyway, I was first leaning towards Princeton but since my likely letter, Columbia have been lavishing me with love: booklets poster and finally: that tempting offer:C.Davis Prescott scholar. I have been enticed by the study abroad and research opportunities! Ompared to Pton, CU seems to care more abt its admitted stdnts: many mails, detailed booklets and poster/pictures whereas Pton sent me the Seminars calendar and finaid info(are they always as stingy as that).</p>

<p>So I am planning to major in engineering: not certain but I want sth versatile and certainly hands-on with a pretty heavy-science/mathy course: Mech Eng perhaps with a minor in Financial engineerin!
I am BTW perplexed whether I should major in Financial engineering or Mech bcz I see myself in 10 years in some business jib but I so LOVE SCIENCE and hands-on experiments that make me thing that it is better to have an engineering expertise and then launch in the graduate stage(perhaps post-graduate) the business field! What do you think ?</p>

<p>Internships: I want a school that would offer me plenty chances of internship since my freshman year(summer ?) if possible! Internships in NYC seem limitless(don’t know about Princeton) (I heard that there are so man chances to have an internship in wall street for example ? )
Networks: Any ideas which school has a better network in the Business/Engineering filed ?</p>

<p>Entrepreneurship /Job perspectives(native country): I am from a developing country and would like the best expertise that enbales a job that won’t stay in the way of me getting back to home(government projects or pretty advanced scientific fields)</p>

<p>Research: I want a university that offers hands-on learning with olenty of research opportunities at the undergraduate level! Columbia has the URIP !(SO AMAZING) But I couldn’t access so uch information about Princeton’s undergrad research opp except this senior thesis that I didn’t understand very well and seems like a theoretical work)</p>

<p>Education: Ranking and many other factors hint that Princeton’s faculty and curriculum is better suited for engineering careers but Columbia has a larger proportion of its students studying ENg than Pton: 21% - 9% any ideas about the cons! Many people tell me Princeton isn’t the right place to study ENg since it is a Humanities schools and Columbia has better initiatives especially in the Business field!</p>

<p>Finaid: I got almost the same offer with some complication but Pton’s offer seems more generous (with 1k$)</p>

<p>Campus life: I never lived in a Big city and won’t be able to visit any college: so I don’t know what I want! I would like parties but not the kinda loud ones.! Pton has these eating clubs that some people appreciate and others don’t ? I think Princeton isn’t really that far from NYC (40mn car drive ) and would be accessible in weekends! But I Am EXCITED BY THE METROPOLITAN LIFE IN NYC (almost never travelled in my life!)</p>

<p>I am certainly going to Graduate school(MIT most probably/perhaps MBA later on)so the GPA deflation in Princeton might hurt my chances! But I want an environment that offers me more chances to excll and stand out!</p>

<p>So here are my preferences and thoughts!
What do you think ?
Please help me !!</p>

2

<p>Congratulations!
I just chose Princeton over Harvard, Yale, Columbia, and others; see my post on Harvard or Princeton thread yesterday for why. Unlike P, Columbia devotes more resources to grad students.
Of students accepted to Columbia and Princeton, 80% choose Princeton and 20% choose Columbia, which might be helpful to you while deciding.
To respond to your questions:
Princeton’s alumni network is incredibly loyal. It will be easy or easier to get an internship on Wall Street from Princeton.
Research: Princeton has the highest endowment per student ratio of any university in the world and funds more research than Columbia per student on average. Unlike at Columbia, Primceton forces all students to devote a substantial part of junior and senior years (with JPs and senior theses) to research.
Education: this year, 20% to 25% of the class will be BSE at Princeton.
Campus: Princeton is very close to NYC but retains a traditional college campus feel. It’s the best of both worlds; access to NYC and college.
Grad school: in 2005, the WSJ ranked colleges as feeders to prestigious grad programs. Princeton was third (almost tied with Yale). Columbia was much lower. Grade deflation has not hurt Princeton students’ admission rates to grad programs. HYP holds special cachet; it’s HYP or HYPS, not HYPC.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Engineering students represent about 20% of total students at Princeton, not 9%.</p>

<p>Princeton’s engineering school is more highly regarded than Columbia’s. As an example here are the undergraduate engineering rankings:</p>

<p>USNWR Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs Rankings
11. Princeton
20. Columbia</p>

4

<p>And overall US News rankings:

  1. Princeton
  2. Tied Harvard
  3. Yale
  4. Columbia</p>
5

<p>USNWR Undergraduate Engineering Rankings</p>

<p>Aerospace
8. Princeton
NR. Columbia</p>

<p>Chemical
8. Princeton
19. Columbia</p>

<p>Computer
13. Princeton
NR. Columbia</p>

<p>Electrical
11. Princeton
NR. Columbia</p>

<p>Mechanical
12. Princeton
NR. Columbia</p>

<p>Biomedical
19. Columbia
Princeton’s Biomedical is in ChE., which is ranked 8th</p>

<p>Industrial
13. Columbia
NR. Princeton</p>

6

<p>It is difficult to define diversity. You will find that Princeton is a very diverse campus and students respect each other. I do not know their criteria but this site ranked Princeton as having a more diverse campus than Columbia. [The</a> 25 Most Diverse Schools - The Daily Beast](<a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/09/12/the-25-most-diverse-schools.all.html]The”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/09/12/the-25-most-diverse-schools.all.html) </p>

<p>Being named a C. Davis Prescott scholar is a nice honor for you. However, Princeton treats each and every student as an honor student. Princeton attracts many of the best scholars from around the world. At Princeton you do not need to be named an XYZ or ZYX honor student to conduct research or to meet with famous professors. Each and every student has that opportunity. </p>

<p>Many students choose Princeton over Columbia because after they visit both universities they fall in love with Princeton and feel that Columbia campus is too small and too crowded. Columbia has about 194 square feet per student. Princeton has about 1,400 square feet per student. Princeton sells itself. Columbia sells the university with booklets, mail, and pictures. </p>

<p>Living in Manhattan has advantages and disadvantages. I have lived in Manhattan. It is noisy, crowded, and there is always something to do. Columbia students frequently socialize off campus. While the Columbia campus is safe some of the surrounding areas are not safe to walk around at night by yourself. Princeton social life is campus oriented and the entire area is very safe.</p>

<p>At Princeton both mechanical engineering and financial engineering are concentrations in the engineering school. By taking the appropriate prerequisites you can defer choosing between the two concentrations. Also, you could concentrate in mechanical engineering and take financial engineering courses. While Columbia is very good Princeton is ranked as having the better masters program in Financial Engineering. <a href=“https://www.quantnet.com/mfe-programs-rankings/[/url]”>https://www.quantnet.com/mfe-programs-rankings/&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>It is difficult to say which university has more internships; however, it is easy to say that Princeton alumni are more loyal to the university and are more involved with the university. Many internship opportunities are available with Princeton alumni in NYC and around the country. Princeton has study abroad at universities such as Oxford.</p>

<p>Independent research is part of a Princeton education. The thesis can be theoretical but most projects in the engineering field are practical. Here is a video of a MAE practical thesis where two seniors built a new type of camera. [VIDEO:</a> Senior thesis is a new kind of Steadicam ?*Princeton Engineering](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/engineering/video/player/?id=517]VIDEO:”>http://www.princeton.edu/engineering/video/player/?id=517) </p>

<p>Since the number of engineering students at Princeton is small compared to MIT many non engineers think of Princeton as a liberal arts university. The London based Times ranks Princeton as having the third best engineering school in the world after MIT and Cal Tech. Columbia is not ranked in the top 50. [Top</a> Universities for Engineering & Technology 2011-2012](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/engineering-and-it.html]Top”>Subject Ranking 2011-12: Engineering & Technology | Times Higher Education (THE)) Similarly Princeton is ranked as number five in Arts and Humanities; Columbia is not ranked in the top 50. [Top</a> Universities for Arts & Humanities 2011-2012](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/arts-and-humanities.html]Top”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/arts-and-humanities.html) </p>

<p>Grade deflation is an overblown concern. The Wall Street Journal did an analysis that showed that more Princeton students were accepted into the best grad schools than Columbia students. </p>

<p>Good luck in your decision.</p>

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<p>@PtonAlumnus:
Could you point me to the article in the Wall Street Journal?</p>

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<p>The link to the article no longer works. The WSJ may have taken down the article or it may now require a subscription to the WSJ. The link was: <a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights; </p>

<p>Here is a re-posting of the original article: <a href=“InPathWays - Discover latest hot new trending topic, insights, analysis”>InPathWays - Discover latest hot new trending topic, insights, analysis;
This article has Princeton ranked #3 and Columbia ranked #11. </p>

<p>It is easy to question aspects of the WSJ ranking. My point is simply that the best graduate programs understand grade deflation at Princeton and take the deflated grades into account for grad school acceptance.</p>

9

<p>“Pton sent me the Seminars calendar and finaid info”</p>

<p>I’ll be going to Princeton next year and I also received a folder with bumper stickers, pamphlets, pictures, etc. with my mailed acceptance letter, plus they offer a complimentary T-shirt on the admitted students page. I didn’t receive much after that (besides the seminars booklet and the financial aid info that you mentioned), and I don’t know what Colombia’s been sending you - but what more were you looking for? </p>

<p>In any case, I’m a humanities person, so I can’t speak to the engineering program (although it looks like a bunch of other people have already highly recommended that), but factors that made me choose Princeton include:</p>

<p>Campus: The campus is gorgeous, open, and roomy - and there seems to be a lot of activity going on. Colombia’s campus was decent, but New York is crazy loud and overwhelming and the campus seems small comparatively.</p>

<p>Location: I think someone else already said this, but it’s in a college town while still maintaining easy access to NYC and Philadelphia. I personally find New York too big and crowded to be appealing as someplace to live, but I’m really excited that I’ll be able to visit it periodically!</p>

<p>The People: The students were friendly, loyal to their school, spirited, fun, and talented. I like the idea that I will be surrounding myself with a bunch of incredible people. The graduate program is small, so the professors’ focus is on US :slight_smile: I’ve actually already received an email from the Dean of the Anthropology department (which I listed as an interest on my application), and another professor at the Woodrow Wilson school was very receptive when I emailed her to ask about one of the seminars. Having that kind of attention as a rising freshman feels incredible, and based on my conversations with other students who’ve been admitted to Ivies, is unique to Princeton.</p>

<p>The Academics: Princeton is one of the best universities in America, if not THE best. Colombia is also a very strong academic school, but within America as someone else already mentioned the big three are Harvard, Yale, and Princeton; MIT and Stanford are also sometimes included as equally prestigious. It’s hard to say no to the opportunity to attend school here.</p>

<p>Hope that helps; good luck with your choice!</p>

10

<p>About the TIMES ranking! Is it credible: I mean the rd in the world at enginering ?</p>

11

<p>Each ranking uses different criteria. You are wise to question any single ranking. However, every ranking I have seen ranks Princeton’s engineering departments ahead of the respective Columbia department. If you want another perspective look at the USNWR Undergraduate Engineering Rankings. The National Research Council ranked US academic departments to show important characteristics of the best departments. The purpose was to help universities identify how they could improve their departments. The study is very long, very academic, and does not easily condense into sound bites. Ptongrad2000 made an effort to summarize the conclusions of the National Research Council See: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1006939-princeton-2010-national-research-council-nrc-rankings-news-item.html?highlight=National+Research+Council[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1006939-princeton-2010-national-research-council-nrc-rankings-news-item.html?highlight=National+Research+Council&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Princeton’s small size relative to MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, etc. artificially lowers the perceived rank of Princeton. Many of the published rankings rank by the number of outstanding researchers in the various disciplines within each department. A university with 100 professors in a department will have more esteemed researchers than a university with 40 professors. However, your undergraduate instruction may be better in the lower ranked department with 40 professors. </p>

<p>For example, I remember a article from the Civil Engineering Department. The small number of faculty, less than 20, relegates the department is some rankings to lower than expected. However, a ranking done by the important research papers per faculty member ranked the department as best in the country. [I did not find the link.] A large university will cover more aspects of CE. However, nearly all the professors you have at Princeton will be considered among the best in their field. Which is more important to you?</p>

<p>You wrote that “Internships in NYC seem limitless (don’t know about Princeton)” perhaps implying that Columbia would provide an advantage. Job opportunities depend on your major, the economy, your activities in college, your personality, how well you interview, etc. I would hesitate to give general advice on which university will give more opportunities. However, a university professor found that if you want to work at the elite law firms, investment banks, and consultancy firms are only looking for recruits from the “top 5,” Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and Wharton. See: [Want</a> A Great Job? Don’t Go To Second-Tier Schools Like Columbia And MIT - Business Insider](<a href=“http://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-princeton-and-yale-2011-1]Want”>Want a Great Job? Don't Go to Second-Tier Schools Like Columbia and MIT) </p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

12

<p>Thank you PtonAlumnus!
You’re doing a phenomenal job here!
I am strongly leaning towards Princeton right now!
Your comment about the ranking makes sense! Therefore, i guess Princeton has one of the great undergraduate engineering programs in the world!</p>

13

<p>Thank you Ghastn,</p>

<p>Princeton is committed to exposing all students to an international viewpoint. Princeton showed me how to obtain a summer job in a foreign country. The experience was very valuable in enabling me to see the U.S. from a foreigner’s perspective. Your attendance at Princeton will help all the U.S. citizens understand your culture in a manner that a textbook could never provide. Your description of the motivation of Mohamed Bouazizi and the start of the Arab spring will be an important education of your fellow students. </p>

<p>The Davis International Center can be one important resource to assist you in making a smooth transition to Princeton. They can help on visa questions, explain practical issues such as banking, transportation, and clothing. The center can help you find a host family. They can help you understand how to contact a religious adviser. Please visit [Davis</a> IC Home -*Davis International Center](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/intlctr/davis-ic-home/]Davis”>http://www.princeton.edu/intlctr/davis-ic-home/) </p>

<p>If you are a Muslim you should know that Sohaib Nazeer Sultan is the Muslim Life Coordinator at Princeton. [Princeton</a> Muslim Students Association](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/~msa/chaplain.html]Princeton”>Princeton Muslim Students Association) </p>

<p>Welcome aboard Tiger!</p>

14

<p>[Yale</a> University Bulletin | School of Medicine 2011?2012 | Enrollment for 2010?2011](<a href=“Welcome | Office of the University Printer”>Welcome | Office of the University Printer)
About 10 Yale college graduates enters Yale Medical School. Only 1-2 spaces are available for Princeton graduates. There are more Columbia Grad than Princeton grads. </p>

<p>[Are</a> my chances for admission to a Columbia graduate school greater if I attend Columbia as an undergraduate? | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/are-my-chances-admission-columbia-graduate-school-greater-if-i-attend-columbia-undergraduate]Are”>Columbia University Authentication)
14 Columbia undergraduates matriculated at the Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons, the largest undergraduate cohort in the school’s entering class. At Columbia Law School, 50 students matriculated, which was also the largest cohort of students in the entering class.</p>

<p>At Columbia Med Only 2-3 spaces are available for Princeton graduates. At Columbia Law only 5-10 space quota for Princeton. </p>

<p>From Princeton only 22 students enter law school somewhere, which is less than half the number of Columbia undergrads at Columbia Law !</p>

<p>It seems like each top med, law business schools has very limited spaces for Princeton graduates, and unlimited quota for applicants from their own undergraduate school.</p>

15

<p>ghastn–you should know that youpika is a well known ■■■■■ who has posted misleading and inaccurate statements about Princeton under numerous names over the past few years (german car and jomjom among them). He/she always shows up this time of year and my speculation is that he/she was denied admittance to Princeton and is trying to get revenge.</p>

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<p>This is a tough choice.</p>

<p>Columbia actually outranks Princeton in engineering. Neither is among the very top schools.</p>

<p>USNews</p>

<p>[Best</a> Engineering School Rankings | Engineering Program Rankings | US News](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings)</p>

<h1>15</h1>

<p>Columbia University (Fu Foundation)
New York, NY</p>

<h1>16</h1>

<p>University of California–Los Angeles (Samueli)
Los Angeles, CA </p>

<h1>17</h1>

<p>University of Wisconsin–Madison
Madison, WI</p>

<h1>18</h1>

<p>University of Maryland–College Park (Clark)
College Park, MD</p>

<h1>19</h1>

<p>Harvard University
Cambridge, MA</p>

<h1>19</h1>

<p>Northwestern University (McCormick)
Evanston, IL</p>

<h1>21</h1>

<p>Princeton University
Princeton, NJ</p>

17

<p>^You just gave the graduate school ranking.
I am not sure where to find engineering undergraduate rankings, but it would probably be a lower number assuming that undergraduates are its first priority.</p>

18

<p>Here are undergraduate rankings–Princeton is #11 and Columbia is #20:</p>

<h1>1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology</h1>

<h1>2 Stanford, CA</h1>

<h1>3 University of California–Berkeley</h1>

<h1>4 California Institute of Technology</h1>

<h1>5 Georgia Institute of Technology</h1>

<h1>6 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign</h1>

<h1>6 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor</h1>

<h1>8 Carnegie Mellon University</h1>

<h1>9 Cornell University</h1>

<h1>9 Purdue University–West Lafayette</h1>

<h1>11 Princeton University</h1>

<h1>11 University of Texas–Austin</h1>

<h1>13 Northwestern University</h1>

<h1>13 University of Wisconsin–Madison</h1>

<h1>15 Johns Hopkins University</h1>

<h1>15 Virginia Tech</h1>

<h1>17 Pennsylvania State University–University Park</h1>

<h1>17 Rice University</h1>

<h1>17 Texas A&M University–College</h1>

<h1>20 Columbia University</h1>

<h1>20 University of California–San Diego</h1>

<h1>20 University of Washington</h1>

19

<p>I would say that both schools are great. Rankings??? An engineering degree from either institution is an accomplishment. Really, an engineering degree from most places is an accomplishment…the engineering students have to spend MUCH more time on school than students of most other majors. My advice is to go to the school you like best and enjoy it!</p>

20

<p>Columbia Engineering offers integrated BS/MS degree. Some courses are simultaneously counted for both BS and MS degree. If you plan wisely, you can get both BS and graduate degree in 4 years. </p>

<p>At graduate level Columbia is ranked 15th(2nd best among Ivys) and Princeton is not even top 20. </p>

<h1>1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology</h1>

<h1>2 Stanford University</h1>

<h1>3 University of California–Berkeley</h1>

<h1>4 Georgia Institute of Technolog</h1>

<h1>5 California Institute of Technology</h1>

<h1>5 University of Illinois–Urbana</h1>

<h1>7 Carnegie Mellon University</h1>

<h1>8 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor</h1>

<h1>8 University of Texas–Austin</h1>

<h1>10 Cornell University Ithaca, NY</h1>

<h1>10 Purdue University–West Lafayette</h1>

<h1>12 Texas A&M University–College Station</h1>

<h1>12 University of Southern California</h1>

<h1>14 University of California–San Diego</h1>

<h1>15 Columbia University</h1>

<h1>16 University of California–Los Angeles</h1>

<h1>17 University of Wisconsin-</h1>

<h1>18 University of Maryland–College Park</h1>

<h1>19 Harvard University Cambridge, MA</h1>

<h1>19 Northwestern University (McCormick)</h1>