<p>No doubt. We’ve spent a lot of time scouring the course offerings. She’s also is keen on the possibility of double majoring or majoring and double minoring. I suppose that’s one of the big draws of an LAC for her. She loves the freedom they offer along with the ability to make a lot of independent choices. </p>
<p>One of her favorite secondary majors and/or minors is the Leadership program offered at Richmond.</p>
<p>Adding to the possible limited course offerings of LACs, be sure to try and find out if courses listed are offered every year. Many smaller colleges are having to cut back to every other year for some courses due to financial constraints and this can sometimes be difficult for scheduling. </p>
<p>Consortium schools can help somewhat, but the benefits are often ‘over advertised’ IMO. D1 is at one now where all campus’ are together and students can reach them by walking (in others shuttles are often necessary and so add to the time factor in taking a class at a different campus), but there are still constraints that prevent taking courses at the other schools from being seamless: lack of priority in registration, requirement to take major courses only at home school, etc. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but good to know all of the details and toning down the hype.</p>
<p>From having kids who have attended a LAC, mid sized private (5k) and large public, I think some of the advantages of larger size are more course offerings and more sections available for the classes/labs.</p>
<p>I’m a real fan of the LAC, but yes, one does have to make sure that the courses of interest are offered in plentitude for those students who want to go for a doctorate. None of the ones we’ve visited and considered were a problem for those kids interested in them, but some of the colleges considered, not true LACs, not be good schools of choice for someone looking to be, say a classics major, and some other disciplines if they wanted to go deep and are into the study. You can usually tell if this is an issue by looking at the number of majors in the various disciplines. A school with a lot of business, ed, and other non liberal arts majors is often a tip off. </p>
<p>Elon comes to mind as a school that is on the upswing, and at one time, at least was a school that would make me hesitate for those students who truly wanted a liberal arts degree. The emphasis and pure volume of business majors, to me, was an indicator of where the school emphasis was. This might have changed.</p>
<p>We are visiting Elon in June. I will let you know what I think when we return. Obviously, after visiting W&L and Richmond, we have a pretty good idea what the Liberal Arts model should look like!</p>
<p>“She’s also is keen on the possibility of double majoring or majoring and double minoring. I suppose that’s one of the big draws of an LAC for her”</p>
<p>That option should be available at most schls… Does she think that’s only a Lac option? Many schls that are generous with AP credits will be easy to double major and minor in.</p>
<p>I guess she drank the LAC cool aid…she just loved the idea of the freedom to explore your interests. If you’ve been to any LAC tours you’ve heard the LAC discussion. They do make it sound pretty good!</p>
<p>Also, she’s dead set on studying abroad and every LAC makes that sound like an easy process…</p>
<p>Let us know. Elon has undergone a lot of changes since then, nearly 15 years ago when I looked at it. </p>
<p>I drank the LAC kool aid too.</p>
<p>Study abroad and exploring interests are easy everywhere, that’s not LAC exclusive. Unless you’re an engineering major, choices and study abroad are easy.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how the idea that you can only get a liberal arts education at a LAC came about. Maybe because at some schools you need to choose a College within the university, but even then, most have broad GE requirements and all have a College of LS&A or the equivalent, which covers a broad range of subjects.</p>
<p>D1 who attended a large public and mid-sized private arguably had a broader educational experience as a premed English major than D2, a Bio major at a LAC. Unless a kid is attending a tech school, art school, or other discipline specific institution, the breadth of their education is less defined by the type/size of school than their own interests and inclinations.</p>
<p>I haven’t known any kids with a problem studying abroad who attend large publics or smaller privates. It seems like field of interest (eg. engineering or premed) can be more limiting to study abroad that the type/size of school.</p>
<p>I’m quite sure that is all true. Studying abroad is a point of emphasis during the LAC presentations. The AdCom doing the presentation brings it up and gives impressive stats on the percentage of kids who study abroad. They make it seem like its a part of the experience like going to the dining hall. At the few mid-size schools we’ve been to, it only comes up if someone in the audience asks and then it is addressed as a possibility only. </p>
<p>Let me say, I don’t have a huge sample set. Just 3 mid-size unis and two very impressive LAC’s.</p>
<p>The key attribute of a LAC is no graduate students/programs. At universities with graduate students, the professors are naturally more focused on them, whereas at LACs their engagement with students is strictly at the undergrad level.</p>
<p>Which you must admit is very appealing to an incoming freshman and their parents…</p>
<p>It’s certainly appealing to me and my family …</p>
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<p>Hi, BigDaddy, I feel for you. I felt the same way. But income is always going to be a deciding factor. Unless you have so much money that there are never any limits. Personally I’ve never met anyone in that position.</p>
<p>This college search and selection process stinks because it’s like going into a shop for a prom dress. There are only approximate prices on the dresses. You decide what you want, and then are told by the cashier how much it will put you back. Unfortunately, if you’ve chosen the wrong dress you’re out of time to find another one. </p>
<p>You’re 100% right, you don’t know what the merit aid situation is going to be like. It changes year to year, and we got bit by reductions in aid across the board in a couple of the schools D applied to. Or the stats went (way) up for merit aid.</p>
<p>But there’s a lot of wisdom on this board, and a lot of tips about what schools to look at. We had a lot of difficulty finding a financial safety my D loved. Never did find one. Fortunately we pushed very hard on SAT prep and D got many merit awards. She chose the state flagship, the first school she saw and the one she liked best throughout the process. If I’d known then, when we started, what I do now, I would’ve skipped the search and just gone with State U from the get-go. But hindsight is always 20-20.</p>
<p>One of the comments I most appreciated reading out here was that the process is an opportunity to teach our kids about financial limits. There’s no time like the present to learn about living within one’s means. It’s a critical life lesson, better learned sooner, than later.</p>
<p>Ok, now you’ve stressed me out!! My D’s prom is in two weeks and she doesn’t have a dress yet!! Only kidding…that’s my W’s problem. I don’t ask how much the dress will cost because I don’t want to know.</p>
<p>Also, I’d be ok with the finaid process if it was handled like any other consumer product. I don’t want to start an argument or worse a philosophical discussion. Just seems like college scholarship $ should be based on merit.</p>
<p>*The key attribute of a LAC is no graduate students/programs. At universities with graduate students, the professors are naturally more focused on them, whereas at LACs their engagement with students is strictly at the undergrad level.
*</p>
<p>In theory that’s correct. However that wrongly suggests that non-LAC profs teaching undergrads are distinterested and unavailable. That certainly has not been what my kids experienced. My kids’ profs know their students’ names, host dinners/holiday parties at their homes, let them know about research opps, etc. </p>
<p>To suggest that these profs are essentially looking past the undergrads and focusing on grad students is not the case at all. besides, at many larger univ, many of the undergrad profs aren’t teaching any grad classes at all. And, of the ones that do, the classes are combo classes (upper division undergrad 4XX /grad classes 5XX designations), so the profs’ interests include both groups of students.</p>
<p>Having gone to a school with world class graduate programs and research, it was very clear where the focus was. Big difference between that and most LACs I know. My first two years, I never saw a professor except at the front of the room doing the class lecture. You were assigned a time for recitation once a week and the class was broken down into sections for that, so you got to know your grad student who would go over the homework and answer questions. </p>
<p>Now those who were truly the cream would go right to the top and the research opportunities and the level of knowledge one could get in one’s field was as GOOD AS IT GOT. Truly, truly world class, and not something you are likely to get at a school where all the kids are UGs, though there are top researchers in certain fields working at LACs too. Several of my former classmates have been on the short list for the Nobel Prize and they will all attribute their accomplishments to the opportunities they got at top facilities at that early age. But they are some of the most most unusually brilliant minds of our generation. So, yes, if you have a student who truly can soar with the eagles, that is a consideration. But getting a research position or opportunity is highly competitive. Where the LACs and smaller schools shine, is that you don’t have to be at that level and compete with the top minds in your field to get some opportunities. I truly believe that a lot of very bright students were stampeded over at some of these schools where it is so difficult to get any of the best opportunities.</p>
<p>This is one of the argument I give even for the smaller private schools vs the large excellent publics. It can be a rough world in those big schools like Jefferson, Styuvessant, etc. For a given kid, certain opportunities are more likely for them at a smaller school. Just like if you have a kid who loves basketball, is an excellent basketball player, going to a big public school with the nation’s top teams and players may do nothing for him as he would be sitting on the bench if he’s lucky, in the stands most likely WATCHING the stars at play. </p>
<p>These are, of course, generalities. But if you are looking at the chances for direct access to certain things, the odds can be daunting when you have a kid in a school where thousands are competing for the same thing vs at a small school where they try to accommodate everyone.</p>
<p>That’s definetly the feeling we’ve gotten so far in regards to the LAC model. For us, the emphasis and opportunities available at the LAC’s and to an extent, the small unis is very appealing.</p>
<p>One of my kids is just a space cadet when it comes to jumping on opportunities and a scatter brain to boot. That he went to a very good LAC with small classes where most of the professors were proactive in getting the most out of the students and working with them side by side, gave him opportunities he just would not have experienced at a large school. Heck, he would have had trouble graduating in 4 years if he had to compete to get certain classes, as he was just not wired that way. His freshman year roommate had a breakdown of sorts, one year and when he missed two days in a row of a class, the prof was right there looking for him. The support from classmates and the school made a tremendous difference in his being able to get back on track. </p>
<p>My other son, who went to a state school, was visiting his brother. He could not believe the way everyone knew each other, and the support they gave each other. They all knew who he was within a day or two, and they would know where his brother was at given times of the day. They would go to support him when he was playing in a game. The profs had dinners at their house for their students, and knew all of them well. Now, the one who went to the larger school, actually was in a very small department and got a lot of attention (maybe too much) from the profs and others there, but the school as a whole did not work that way at all because of the sheer size. There were more Political Science, Psychology and Philosophy majors graduating than the rest of the majors combined and when you saw that they numbered in the thousands, it’s pretty clear that there is no way that they could get the experiences and personal attention an LAC can give for, say 50 at most in a discipline.</p>
<p>cpt…I think what you’ve described was very typical of when we went to college. Profs in Ivory Towers and that sort of thing. Things have changed at many univs. At many schools, profs know their students, they’ll hang out at the campus Starbucks chatting, they’ll eat in the dining halls, etc. </p>
<p>I agree that many of the profs at my UC in the late 70s didn’t hardly know who I was (especially for lower division). Things have changed at many univs.</p>