Please help Undecided STEM (and Undecided about STEM) Girl’s college list

[tsbna44]

Yes, to me

Listen - the student is well rounded with a very high GPA, rigor, and a 1560 SAT.

My point - they’ve done well and “deserve” to apply. Not everyone who applies deserves to apply.

Many deferrals at many schools, including CWRU, will get in.

This student has worked their rear end off - and should have positivity about what they accomplished - is what I’m saying.

And the people on here are hard core. Short of going to a Gtown presentation where they say they reject no one early and defer everyone - kids don’t know so a deferral is good.

And I saw other posters say they know of MIT kids turned down early - so if that’s the case - again, deferral is good.

When sub 5% get in, of course it’s unlikely - but mentally, it’s still a feather in the cap so to speak.

I think @chrisntine has planned well (hence the great WPI offer with more to come)…and she’s managing her daughter’s expectations properly.

OK, time to move on.

[FreshCoastal]

I’ve seen this with my D22, too. Two of her EA schools have responded with “send us mid-year grades.” She’s mentally preparing that those will end up as rejections, but they don’t sting like the CWRU outright rejection did.

[mtmind]

@chrisntine

Ouch, I don’t think I’m playing games with my D. She’s not euphoric over the deferrals, just glad to have a gentler rejection than a big fat NO right before Christmas. She does not consider herself ultra qualified, just maybe not so completely underqualified that they didn’t reject her outright (which I imagine they did for some kids?).

A good attitude, but I’m not sure it makes sense to even consider it a “gentler rejection,” especially at CWRU. A deferral is not like a waitlist, which is usually much more of a “gentler rejection.” My guess is that at CWRU, her odds of admission are now similar to what they would have been had she applied RD. And given that she has extremely impressive credentials relative to the RD pool, those odds are probably still pretty good. Just my opinion, of course. Even at MIT, her odds may now be slightly lower, but the odds are pretty long either way, and at least she is still in the RD pool.

Anyway congratulations on your daughter’s admissions so far, and good luck on the rest! Personally, I’m rooting for Mudd. (I’ve no connection, I just really like their approach.)

[CateCAParent]

@mtmind

Personally, I’m rooting for Mudd.

Me, too.

[ucbalumnus]

@mtmind

A deferral is not like a waitlist, which is usually much more of a “gentler rejection.” My guess is that at CWRU, her odds of admission are now similar to what they would have been had she applied RD. And given that she has extremely impressive credentials relative to the RD pool, those odds are probably still pretty good.

However, if she appears “overqualified” for CWRU, that suggests that her chances after deferral depend heavily on how well she plays the “level of interest” game. Presumably, she needs to put more into the “level of interest” game at CWRU to have a chance of admission, since whatever interest she showed was not sufficient to convince CWRU that she was not applying there EA as a “safety” that she is unlikely to attend.

@mtmind

Even at MIT, her odds may now be slightly lower, but the odds are pretty long either way, and at least she is still in the RD pool.

If MIT defers most non-admitted EA applicants, that means that she is either in the probably-small borderline group or the probably-large clear-reject group (in the eyes of MIT admissions), and obviously not in the clear-admit group (who were admitted EA). Hence the odds of admission, long to begin with, are probably much longer now after EA deferral.

Note that MIT’s stated reason for offering EA is to split the admissions workload across a greater amount of time. This suggests that, of the deferred EA applicants, only the true borderline ones will get reviewed again in the RD phase, while most deferrals from EA are just rejections-in-waiting.

[mtmind]

@ucbalumnus

However, if she appears “overqualified” for CWRU, that suggests that her chances after deferral depend heavily on how well she plays the “level of interest” game. Presumably, she needs to put more into the “level of interest” game at CWRU to have a chance of admission, since whatever interest she showed was not sufficient to convince CWRU that she was not applying there EA as a “safety” that she is unlikely to attend.

Perhaps, but even if the decision did involve “level of interest,” those who apply RD also have to play the same game, and arguably having applied EA shows more interest that applying RD.

Also, I am not so sure that the deferrals of “overqualified” EA applicants are solely a result of these applicants not having shown sufficient interest. It could just as easily be that CWRU is using EA to try to target applicants with certain specific characteristics, and deferring most of the rest of the high grade, high test score kids for later consideration. It could be that CWRU wants to see whether these students are scooped up in ED at other institutions. Could be that they are trying to coax this kids to apply EDII. Could be something else; we really don’t know why these students were deferred.

Likewise, we don’t know how MIT makes its decision on who to defer and who to accept. It could be that they accept the cream of the cream, reject the “clear reject group” and hold everyone else for continued consideration.

[DadOfJerseyGirl]

@mtmind

It could be that they accept the cream of the cream, reject the “clear reject group” and hold everyone else for continued consideration.

That is in fact exactly what I’ve heard from people “in the know” about MIT’s decision process in the early round.

They are big about “shaping the class” - i.e. selecting applicants who meet certain desired criteria that they are looking for that year. This isn’t simply about URMs/first-gens; they’re looking to pick applicants with specific achievements or combination of talents/backgrounds. And as much as possible they want to make this decision looking at the entire application pool.

So anyone who’s not “the cream” or a recruited athlete, nor a “clear reject” is deferred from the EA round and will receive the same consideration in the RD round as any other RD applicant.

[CateCAParent]

@ucbalumnus

Hence the odds of admission, long to begin with, are probably much longer now after EA deferral.

The odds for an applicant doesn’t change over time. If they were deferred it meant their odds were long during EA, too. The long odds were just confirmed, is all. Maybe ED could change someone’s odds, but even then not much.

If MIT is cherry picking people and shaping a class, which no doubt it is, the chances are bleak no matter when you apply. If you have a spike, it might be better, but how much depends on how many other people share that spike. For 98% of the deferrals, it is really a rejection that hasn’t been revealed yet. Probably best to think about it that way and be pleasantly surprised if you win the lottery. But that doesn’t mean you can’t be pleasantly surprised that you weren’t outright rejected in EA, too.

[theloniusmonk]

@ucbalumnus

Presumably, she needs to put more into the “level of interest” game at CWRU to have a chance of admission,

OP says her D has attended sessions and had an interview, so apart from the LOCI, not sure what else Case is looking for. Expecting people to travel by air to a campus (pre-Covid or now) is unfair since most families can’t afford that.

[Dis3456]

I don’t know why I cannot figure out how to embed quotes anymore, but I wanted to comment on your post. I agree with you - I appreciate Stanford’s approach. Quite frankly, I didn’t have an opinion on the issue until my daughter was deferred by MIT. I find MIT’s approach incredibly inconsiderate. They defer 10,000 applicants to ultimately accept 200 of them. Those candidates are not all borderline. They should reject the ones who won’t be reconsidered in RD. Applicants are left wondering, “Am I borderline, or I am part of the polite rejects?” She applied early to have a decision, and now she won’t find out until March. She has moved on though.

[Pathnottaken]

100% on this. Going through that anticipation and build up twice for so many applicants is needless. I would recommend RD for MIT just to avoid that. It also gives them time to reflect on their essays. Write them over the summer before senior year since MIT’s are different, but wait to see how some of them play out if you use variations at other schools.

[1NJParent]

@Dis3456

I find MIT’s approach incredibly inconsiderate. They defer 10,000 applicants to ultimately accept 200 of them. Those candidates are not all borderline. They should reject the ones who won’t be reconsidered in RD.

MIT and Stanford have very different approaches to their early applications, even though most early applicants receive apparently little boost from both. Unless an early applicant has certain rare combination of attributes that MIT really wants (in academics, athletics, or demographics), MIT prefers to wait until it has the entire pool of applicants to make its decisions. Stanford (with its 45k+ applicants), on the other hand, prefers not to have to read a typical application twice, unless, of course, the applicant is really borderline, etc.

[advitha]

I discussed this with my D22. This is what she said, “Well, I’m now able to give updates through FUN which may not be possible in RD”

[Pathnottaken]

Most of those updates would have been in that window between the application and the RD deadline anyway.

We got the impression they wanted major accomplishments there.

Still not convinced it is worth the two rounds of anxiety but I get it.

[chrisntine]

True, but the EA updates get to be called “FUN”.

I’d tried to convince my D to submit MIT in regular instead of EA, but she wanted to do it early and in the end that worked out because she had way too many RD apps to complete over winter break. So like MIT, she spread out her apps between EA and RD. (Of course, if she’d listened to mom she would’ve had all essays done over the summer and could submit apps at her leisure).

She really doesn’t expect to get in with the deferral, and maybe it’s better this way – the expected rejection in spring won’t be as painful as the many other rejections she’ll also get at that time. As I said, she is happy with knowing she didn’t get the flat-out No from the start as it meant that she at least had the basic qualifications to do that level of work. If she applied RD and just gotten the rejection then, she’d never know if she was even basically qualified.

For other kids, I can see it hurting too much to have the hope/anxiety play out twice. For my D, the pain of rejection is not doubled, but spread out, maybe 3/4 now, 1/4 later.

[chrisntine]

Great attitude.

[LostInTheShuffle]

@1NJParent

@Dis3456

I find MIT’s approach incredibly inconsiderate. They defer 10,000 applicants to ultimately accept 200 of them. Those candidates are not all borderline. They should reject the ones who won’t be reconsidered in RD.

MIT and Stanford have very different approaches to their early applications, even though most early applicants receive apparently little boost from both. Unless an early applicant has certain rare combination of attributes that MIT really wants (in academics, athletics, or demographics), MIT prefers to wait until it has the entire pool of applicants to make its decisions. Stanford (with its 45k+ applicants), on the other hand, prefers not to have to read a typical application twice, unless, of course, the applicant is really borderline, etc.

My D22 was on the receiving end of a Stanford REA rejection last month. It stung but she said that she’d rather know sooner than to be strung along until spring. I guess to each her own.

[advitha]

I could never do that somehow. To D, MIT is her first and top choice. She would be ready to do REA or ED if they have one. But this deferral has made her to spread out her interest to other T20s as well. Lets see, I’m sure some of our CC kids will get in through RD after deferral. Lot of them have great credentials.

[chrisntine]

Just as D is starting to recover from the exhaustion of college apps, I’m about to push her to submit applications for CSU Honors programs.

Between her 2 acceptances so far, D strongly prefers WPI to Sac State. But since we haven’t yet visited WPI, I want to prepare for the possibility that she changes her mind and decides to stay in-state.

But she is so burned out from apps, school work and activities, and I just want her to enjoy her senior year. So I’m trying to determine which CSU’s Honors programs would give such a markedly better experience for her than attending without a special program to make it worth the extra effort to apply.

I’m hoping @gumbysmom and others can help me determine (1) which Honors programs allow applications before being admitted to the campus and (2) what benefits they provide that would significantly improve her experience? This is what I’ve gathered so far:

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
-Applying: can only apply if “conditionally admitted” to campus
-Benefits: special curriculum, small classes, mentorships, research opportunities, private Honors spaces, Honors housing

Cal Poly Pomona
-Applying: D not yet admitted but invited to apply (due Mar 1) (can also apply as sophomore)
-Benefits: special classes, internship & research opportunities, priority registration

CSULB
-Applying: apply only after admitted to campus?
-Benefits: special classes, advising, smaller classes, Honors housing (if available), priority registration

Sacramento State
-Applying: D was admitted and invited to apply (due Feb 1)
-Benefits: special curriculum, study abroad, internship & research encouraged, small class sizes, extracurriculars

San Diego State
-Applying: can apply before admitted to campus (due Feb 1)
-Benefits: special curriculum, study abroad required, Honors housing

San Jose State
-no Honors College(?), but can graduate with departmental Honors

Also – we’re just hoping she gets into the UC’s but if she does, the honors programs at the UC’s don’t have open applications like the CSU’s, right? From what I could tell, they seem to be decided with the admissions applications, or apply by invitation or apply later when attending. Just want to make sure she’s not supposed to be working on more apps right now!

As always, thanks for your help!

[Gumbymom]

The biggest draw for the CSU Honors college is the priority registration. That said, here are some questions I would ask about the Honors college:

1. Special Curriculum: Are there additional classes beyond the major curriculum that are requirements for the Honors college?

2. Study Abroad: If required, does the Honors college student get additional financial aid incentive to offset costs?

3. Research: Is this an interest to the student and again are Honors students given priority over other students interested in the research opportunities.

4. Internships: Making connections with the professors/alumni, I think is extremely important so this would be a huge benefit but there are other ways to network and achieve the same goal.

Overall, my younger son opted not to do the Honors college at SDSU since his CS major was very demanding, planned on joining a Fraternity plus the additional Honors college courses were not to his liking.

I believe if the Honors college’s benefits outweigh the cons, then it something to consider. I also know many friends whom students started off in the Honors college, found it more work than anticipated and after Sophomore year dropped it since they did not need priority registration but on the flip side, others that very good experiences.

UC’s require an invite or the applicant is automatically admitted into the Honors colleges as a Freshman, however as stated a student can apply in later terms.