I know what you would do. You would start in engineering and then back out if you didn’t like it.
What I understand this student to be wanting is not that or a place like Cal Poly SLO. Dartmouth offers the intellectual environment, peers with the range of interests, and a climate accepting of LGBTQ students that she is seeking. In this case, the 5th year might be a good thing. It gives her the time she needs without the pressure of a need to rush through things but gives her the in depth STEAM option if she needs it.
Just my 2 cents. She can hear us both and do what she wants.
It’s not the path or even the school per se that I’m objecting to. It’s that the 5th year is $81,000 and results in a lost year of salary. That’s a pretty big price difference given the other options. I actually like Dartmouth, a lot.
That’s a lot of schools OP! 25, 26? Good luck with it all! I think that your daughter will have many good choices. And I kind of understand the difficulty schools are having managing yield. If candidates apply to upwards of twenty schools it becomes quite difficult to judge plausibility of enrollment. Not a criticism to you OP; just finished reading the CWRU yield management thread with many interesting thoughts. Happy holidays!!!
If MIT defers most EA applicants, then it means that a deferred EA applicant is either borderline or (more likely) a clear reject (from MIT’s point of view) – the clear admit possibility is no longer possible. So, overall, an EA deferral from MIT suggests a much lower chance of admission than before.
This is different from colleges that only defer applicants they see as borderline while rejecting many more early applicants.
I get what you’re trying to say, and yes it probably applies to a lot of colleges - but, with MIT specifically it’s well known that they defer most of their EA applicants.
This information is not hidden in the common data set - they mention it openly in multiple blogs and they publish admission stats along with the EA decisions. So any student having spent some time on MIT’s site should know this going in.
I totally get what you are saying. Last spring our son applied to MIT for grad school. They sent out a wave of rejections before the acceptances came out. He was not in that wave. About 3-4 days later he was rejected, but we had the mindset of “at least he didn’t get rejected in the first wave”. Who knows if that meant anything or not. Sometimes you have to take the small victories.
Appreciate all the analyses, but like @tsbna44, our family views the deferrals to MIT and UChicago as a good thing. D is not looking at the CDS (I’m not actually either, just letting you all tell me what’s there ), but she knows Deferral likely = Rejection. But to not get rejected straight out was a huge relief. We might be wrong, but thought if she was completely unqualified, they would’ve just rejected her now. So, even though she knows she’s not at all likely going to either school, she was relieved to not be told no this month. Somehow it doesn’t sting as much if she can believe that she was viewed as someone who could handle their rigorous coursework, even if she’s not ultimately of the caliber they want.
I did read the yield protection thread about Case and although I do think she has a slightly better chance of eventually getting a yes from them, she’s not counting on it and also views it as a rejection being played out in slow motion. That one did sting because she really liked their approach and thought she had a chance.
D’s heard the advice to students to “love the school that loves you back” and is definitely feeling positive vibes toward WPI. We don’t know yet if that’s “the one” but she’s definitely feeling the love, and that’s a great feeling.
Yes, it’s a lot of schools, but the UC’s are a single application, so we consider that to be one app. And the CSU’s are also a single application, with no essays, so that too is one app for all campuses. It’s a lot more application fees, but no extra work other than clicking boxes.
So in the end she’ll have essentially 14 or 15 apps done (including Case with no supplemental essay), which I didn’t think is that much these days? Seeing her results so far, I’m glad she cast a wide net especially with the UCs and CSU’s being so hard to get into as a Comp Sci major.
Omg you guys are killing me I didn’t know we were adding to her list! Seriously, I do appreciate the suggestion, never actually considered the school. You’re right about the type of environment she’s seeking. Dartmouth sounds like it hits a lot of her wants, but she’d have to quickly sub it for another one of her remaining reach schools which I don’t think she’s up for.
In any event, I suspect the school would feel too rural/remote for her. I’ll share the suggestion and see her reaction (she might kill me for trying to add a school now so watch out for matricide headlines from California).
And @eyemgh thanks for the head’s up about the extra year for engineering. I did look briefly and don’t think CS requires the 5th year like the engineering major? We’d be prepared for an extra year of private school tuition wherever she lands, but ouch, that’s no fun knowing it’s definitely 5 years just to complete the degree. She loves the Rochester Take 5 extra year possibility, but that I believe would not be additional tuition if she got into that program (first she needs to get into the college!).
My issue with encouraging the euphoria of not being rejected is we saw up close an personal the completely false sense of what happens when you actually believe that it’s meaningful. One of my daughter’s classmates was deferred from Harvard and was over the moon that she wasn’t rejected as clearly she was ultra qualified and proceeded to apply RD to the rest of the Ivys and her state school. Anyone want to hazard a guess where she’s at now? Exactly.
I have zero interest in playing games with my kids. If a school defers most of their EA’s - I’m not going to pretend it’s some kind of win if they’re deferred and they should pat themselves on the back. I have much more respect for schools like Stanford where a deferral actually means something - instead of gaslighting their applicants. Especially as these schools won’t suffer the ramifications of an inflated view of the strength of their application. YMMV
Both my kids were accepted EA to Case - it’s a school that wants to know that you actually know them and want to go there. Demonstrated interest is huge. If it’s really at the top of her list, she needs to make sure they know it.
The thing I don’t understand about Case, assuming this is true - why not require a “Why Case?” essay? They make it so easy to apply as just an add on without knowing anything about the school.
Ouch, I don’t think I’m playing games with my D. She’s not euphoric over the deferrals, just glad to have a gentler rejection than a big fat NO right before Christmas. She does not consider herself ultra qualified, just maybe not so completely underqualified that they didn’t reject her outright (which I imagine they did for some kids?).
I’m not sure how else your D’s classmate was supposed to apply after the Harvard deferral other than RD to the remaining schools. And there should be no shame if she ended up at her state school, assuming that’s what we’re supposed to guess for where she ended up.
Not giving my D a pat on the back for the deferral, just a big hug. She knows she’s not in, I just don’t need to rub it in her face.
Thanks, unfortunately, I think the only other thing she can do now is ED II, which she’s not prepared to do. Besides being Undecided Girl, I wouldn’t let her apply ED to a school she hasn’t had a chance to visit yet.
She attended a regional info session, virtual sessions and had an interview, and will now write her letter of continued interest, which I suppose is the “why Case” essay that wasn’t requested before. But she just might not be what they want and, like the other deferrals, she’s moving forward on the assumption she won’t be getting in.
Keep the faith. Yes, find other options. But stay positive.
And your daughter should be proud of all her accomplishments…and deferrals. She’s worked hard, not everyone is even qualified to apply to these schools. Anyone can apply but it doesn’t mean they are qualified and your child has deserved this. She is extremely accomplished. And I suspect good news awaits, certainly at CWRU.
Yes, because you are prepared, she will find a wonderful home.
But no need for naysayers to minimize her accomplishments in the process so far.
Many schools defer. For my daughter ut was Miami. And she got in with the same merit EA applicants got. UGa is another that defers and admits.
So keep the candle burning brightly for your daughter …she’s earned it.
), but she knows Deferral likely = Rejection. But to not get rejected straight out was a huge relief. We might be wrong, but thought if she was completely unqualified, they would’ve just rejected her now. So, even though she knows she’s not at all likely going to either school, she was relieved to not be told no this month. Somehow it doesn’t sting as much if she can believe that she was viewed as someone who could handle their rigorous coursework, even if she’s not ultimately of the caliber they want.
Seriously, I do appreciate the suggestion, never actually considered the school. You’re right about the type of environment she’s seeking. Dartmouth sounds like it hits a lot of her wants, but she’d have to quickly sub it for another one of her remaining reach schools which I don’t think she’s up for.