You’ve gotten some good responses on this already, I just reviewed the sample BS in CS at Cal Poly plan and it looks like there will be a decent amount of theory with the hands-on. I actually only see one hands-on CS class freshman year, which is their Into to Computing class, the other two are Fundamentals of CS (algorithms) and Discrete Structures, both are more theory than hands-on classes. The software engineering curriculum looks more hands-on than the CS curriculum.
As for UCSC, they do have more theory courses, some of that is because they require more Math classes (ucbalumnus pointed this out as well). They also combine theory and programming projects in some of their classes like you would find in a typical CS class (say AI), at least from the course descriptions. :-).
Still undecided. He was leaning WPI, maybe still is leaning WPI, but really isn’t sure. He’s concerned about the programming (he loves that Pitt has a class where you get to try a little bit of all the engineering disciplines before you pick one) and WPI doesn’t really have that. I asked on the WPI parents facebook page about that, and the parents who responded kept telling me (a) it’s not important because you can change your major anytime if you choose wrong, and (b) the introductory classes are all similar.
Comment (a) doesn’t help - it doesn’t matter if switching majors is easy, my kid wants to see what the engineering options look and feel like before committing, because he doesn’t like the feeling of not knowing what his options are. Comment (b) though, has more validity - if everyone has to take similar intro courses, that might well give him enough experience to make an informed choice without the general overview class.
I am concerned about the suicides, but it doesn’t seem to phase him. Two of the big plusses, in my mind, re: WPI was the friendly/happy students, and the fact that it seems like the college wants you to succeed and to support you in that (ie no weed-out courses, ability to make a class NR if you get below a C, strong office of disability services). If the students aren’t happy, and the college isn’t supporting them in some way, then that’s a pretty big hit. But I can’t tell if that’s a valid hit specific to WPI, or if it’s more - the pandemic has been awful, kids everywhere are struggling, this is really really sad, but not a product of WPI specifically. And I just can’t tell.
Thank you @ucbalumnus@teleia@theloniusmonk@advitha for explaining the theory vs. hands-on aspects of a CS curriculum. Your feedback is so helpful! D’s no longer interesting in the other engineering majors so I feel less concerned that she needs to pick either theory or hands-on as it sounds like she should be able to get both in CS, which I think she prefers.
@advitha - D doesn’t know if she’d rather go to industry or academia, so we’re hoping any of these programs could prepare her for both?
Thank you @theloniusmonk for reviewing the CS plans at SLO and UCSC! I had no idea, and really neither does D, how to assess whether classes will truly be more hands-on or theory, or whether a program offers enough depth in the major. @advitha and others before have said we should be looking at whether the course offerings are exhaustive enough, but we really don’t know how to assess that.
I guess we’re assuming based on their reputations and general feedback on CC that Pitt and WPI’s coursework offerings are also strong and suitable for D’s interests. All she’s been able to do is look at the course catalogs and say “ooh yes, that looks cool!” reading titles and class descriptions, without knowing really what each class would be like or if there’s sufficient depth to a program.
Only SLO is ABET accredited in CS (as well as SE), but I recall others said earlier that ABET wasn’t required for CS (although to me it would still signal that the program was pretty solid). Other than that, we’ve really had no idea how to gauge the quality of the CS programs on our own.
If it were me, I’d pick Pitt too! I feel it’s right for her in so many ways (She wouldn’t want to switch to Engineering but one of the Dietrich Arts/Sciences majors, which looks doable).
And thank you @tsbna44@teleia for your feedback-- glad to hear Pitt is well regarded out here in California too. I really loved the school but while D loved what they were doing at SCI, likes that it seemed flexible enough to try and switch into one of their many offerings, she just didn’t feel she belonged at the campus. She really liked everyone she met at Pitt, but we went the day after our WPI visit, where she really felt she found her people.
My D did a similar sleepaway at a different location and she agrees that the UCSC campus does feel like a summer camp more than a traditional school. She really likes the kids there and all the majors she’s interested in are there, but I think it’s falling toward the bottom of her remaining four due to the campus feeling a bit too forest-ey and isolating, plus her concern with the huge class sizes and difficulty taking classes outside her major.
Thank you for all the links and info! We saw the new building under construction, but I didn’t think it was going to be used for the Engineering College, where SE/CS is housed?
And wow, the food choices so far seem the best of D’s options (except of course Pitt but it’s in a city so I wont’ hold that against SLO ).
Yeah, D would probably want to skip Chick-fil-A, but more than that, I think we’re concerned about SLO’s reputation of being less welcoming to students of color. I’m not sure that reputation is accurate and the students we know there say they haven’t had any concerns.
It’s actually more diverse than WPI but it somehow felt less so walking around campus, but maybe I was expecting more from the California school. D also said she felt more connected to the WPI kids even though they were mostly white, so I guess nerdy vibe can overcome racial/ethnic diversity needs for her.
D still has not been able to connect with current SLO students in SE/CS and I think if she got the fun nerdy vibe she gets from the WPI kids it would win her over. She only met a few admitted CS students when we visited and they were what I’d call introverted nerds, whereas D and the WPI kids we met were fun, extroverted nerds, if that makes sense?! I do think she’ll find “her people” at SLO (or Pitt or UCSC), it just would help if she was as sure of that as I am.
Ah, yes, that’s frustrating if the response is that you can easily change majors (which itself is great of course). I guess the point (b) though to me means they all take the same common intro courses (like certain math classes maybe?), but that might not mean they’re introductions to the meat of what each major really does? So that doesn’t really help.
When I was browsing the WPI catalog I found this class called " FY 1800. DISCOVERING MAJORS AND CAREERS" which I thought my D would like and might help your son. It’s not the same as an introductory survey of all the engineering options, but may be sufficient?: Interdisciplinary Programs | Worcester Polytechnic Institute
I too am still concerned about the suicides and while the pandemic hit all schools it did seem disproportionate to WPI and it’s been so heartbreaking, But I saw on reddit the students seem to be feeling positive about the changes that are happening: https://www.reddit.com/r/WPI/comments/u7m9up/progress_update_address_root_causes_of_the_mental/
The spotlight on mental health right now can only help and I’m hopeful things will improve for all the kids going forward.
Truth is - there’s probably many on your list your daughter will be happy at.
You’ve done beyond great analysis over the last many months - but in the end, she’ll have to pick one - and then go with it - know it will be great even if there are bumps - like homesickness.
It’s not a question of the exact right one - there might be three or five. Narrow best you can, go with it, breathe, and get pumped.
All our kids have to let multiple schools they love go for the one they choose - and it will be great.
In other words, there’s more than one school - whether Pitt or WPI or UCSC or another - they’re all the right choice
At this point go with best fit. We also reiterated to our kids that they could always transfer if it wasn’t working. There’s no point of being miserable. It’s not where you start, but where you finish.
Of course they knew that transferring meant our in-state flagships. Not their top choice so there was some motivation to make it work. S20’s first visit to his college was move-in day. Because of Covid it was drop-off and goodbye. We were concerned but he’s done well.
“Only SLO is ABET accredited in CS (as well as SE), but I recall others said earlier that ABET wasn’t required for CS (although to me it would still signal that the program was pretty solid).”
I wouldn’t worry about ABET for CS. Here’s Stanford’s view, which is pretty much accepted elsewhere:
“Like the CS department, the EE department is no longer ABET accredited. While such accreditation is useful in certain disciplines such as civil engineering, it has no practical significance whatsoever in computer science.”
Do update us on what she ended up choosing finally. Good luck to her and you (you are so awesome, have done an extensive study and analysis on her college fit)
Yes, we think it’s down to fit now, as she has all great options. We’ve talked about how there is no perfect school, she will be able to make any of her options a great experience. And since she’s aware of each school’s potential issues that may come up she will go in with open eyes and ready to tackle them. I don’t want her to go in with one leg out the door, but we also assured her if things didn’t fit after all, she could look into transferring or taking time off, etc.
Although she hasn’t articulated it, I’m pretty sure it’s down to WPI and SLO. I think her heart is at WPI and even though it doesn’t offer the full breadth of options she’d want for non-STEM interests, I think there is enough flexibility that she can find her path there. So unless she decides the distance and winters will be too much, I’m guessing that will be her pick. If not WPI, I think SLO would be next based on her excitement about the SE/CS programming and the profs she met.
Of course, she is still Undecided Girl and keeps flip-flopping so I don’t really know until the SIR is in! I told her she needs to commit by Saturday so we don’t have a portal crash trying on deadline day. But I hope she decides earlier because I really want her to transition into excitement about signing up for housing, etc.
@chrisntine - thanks for the link to the reddit threat, that was hugely informative!
I think my son is leaning towards WPI as well, but still not decided. If that’s where they both end up, I’m glad to know that I might have a research buddy for the random things that parents research!
Yes, thank you, WPI definitely seems to have the most small classes, although SLO seems to have much smaller classes than UCSC (which seems smaller than a lot of other UC’s!).
I had D review her original list of what she wanted in a college to see how it’s evolved and to help her make a final decision. She now is down to WPI and SLO.
I think she’s getting nervous about the intensity of WPI and feels overall that SLO is a safer choice since it’s close to home and the quarter system seems to suit a majority of students fine. But she’s still excited by WPI and I could see her wanting to take a risk on something totally different.
She’s been chatting with kids at both schools so that is helping her both answer questions and get more of the vibe of students at each school.
Oh I did a fun experiment with D yesterday. I took screenshots of Niche reviewers’ descriptions of the students for UCSC, SLO, Pitt and WPI, then had her pick which students she’d want to go to school with and also guess which schools were being described.
She liked the last description (academically & socially balanced) best, which was SLO! If she’s still undecided by Saturday, I may use these results to make the decision for her!
ps: Correct answers – Pitt, WPI, UCSC, SLO.
I thought they were obvious, but her guess was WPI, SLO, UCSC, Pitt!
That’s a great idea! I will use it for my D26 if she is having a hard time making a decision! (BTW, I pretty much got them right–UCSC seems so obvious!).
Just remember- you’re down to three or four. There’s no right answer.
She might be happy at all of them. So the analysis is great, but at some point there has to be - where do I feel best?
It may be the right one - it may not be. You won’t know til she’s there - but it could very well be she’ll love her time at any and all of the finalists. And even at some she took off the list.
That’s her problem, she’s still not sure. Which is great I think because it means she can be happy at any of her remaining choices (and yes, probably some she cut too!).
I’ve suggested she “live with” a school for a day – ie tell herself “I’m going to WPI” andlive with it for a day, see how she feels about it. Then try SLO, etc.
So I think in the end if she’s still undecided, I may pick SLO for her. I’ve already threatened to do a CC poll to have you all decide for her.
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