Please Help Us Edit Short List for Combined Science and CS Focus

College Search & Selection
1

<p>We'd really appreciate any suggestions regarding schools our son is visiting this summer and thinking about applying to in the fall. </p>

<p>Here is his background:
- GPA - 4.0UW/4.5W; SAT 2000 (re-taking & working hard to raise to 2100-2200)
- Strong HS/class load - 8 APs; 4 yr language, 6 yr math, 5 yr science, 4 yr social science...)
- Strong EC's w/some leadership, varsity sport, etc - ~4 on scale of 1-5
- CA resident - no hooks; financial aid unlikely for state schools, possible for top privates if admitted</p>

<p>Criteria for college selection:
- May double major in a life/physical science (bio, chem, environmental science, etc) & computer science
- Major unsure, so prefers a school that is not too science-only focused just in case
- Seeking academically challenging school w/active social scene, D1 fball/bball a plus
- prefers west coast, midwest or east coast
- does not like hard core urban environments; prefers mid-size to larger schools</p>

<p>Current schools on the radar:
- Reach - UCLA, North Carolina, Cornell, Dartmouth, Northwestern
- Target - UCSD, Middlebury (maybe reach and too small/rural)
- Safety - UCSB(financial safety as well), Wisconsin, Washington</p>

<p>Does not like UCB (too urban), Duke/BC (vibe not right), MIT (too urban, too intense), Michigan/UIUC (cost), USC (urban/wrong vibe), UCD (too rural/isolated) </p>

<p>Have visited all the UCs, Duke, UNC, MIT, BC
Have not yet seen UW-Seattle, Wisc., Cornell, NU, Dartmouth, Middlebury, Cornell, Michigan</p>

<p>HYPSM seem out of reach and seems he'd be out of his league there anyway. We know Cornell, Dartmouth and Middlebury may be a little isolated for him and do not have the active fball/bball scene in general, but they are attractive for other reasons, and we'll be in the area anyway for a quick visit. </p>

<p>Any suggestions on schools to add to the list or drop from the list much appreciated!</p>

2

<p>Regarding cost and financial aid, check the net price calculator on each school’s web site.</p>

<p>For out of state publics with out of state list prices similar to or lower than UC in state, look at Minnesota, Virginia Tech, NCSU, and Stony Brook as potential safety candidates. Also, the Alabama campuses in Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, and Huntsville will offer big money for high test scores.</p>

<p>A caution about Washington is that if he is not directly admitted to the CS major as a freshman, getting into the major later is said to be very difficult. Check the Washington forum.</p>

<p>Middlebury is somewhat limited in CS, math, and physics, based on catalog listings (and some of the small selection of courses are offered only once every two years). Some other smaller colleges may have a stronger emphasis on sciences, such as Swarthmore, Carleton, and Bucknell (also Harvey Mudd and Caltech, but they are probably too much of a reach).</p>

<p>Some public LACs like Minnesota - Morris and Truman State may also have decent course selections in the desired subjects, while also being relatively inexpensive and potential safety candidates if a smaller school than other possible safety candidates is desired.</p>

<p>If he has “6 years” of math, does this mean he will complete multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations before graduating high school? If so, and he is considering majoring in math, he may want to choose a college with a strong graduate program in math – very advanced math students are often taking graduate level courses and doing graduate level research as undergraduates.</p>

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<p>- Safety - UCSB(financial safety as well), Wisconsin, Washington</p>

<p>Unless I was happily willing to pay the full OOS costs for those 2 schools, I would find a couple of other safeties. The OOS costs are around $40k+ per year. </p>

<p>If he raised his stats are bit, there are financial safeties for him and his major(s). With a bit better scores, he could get very good merit scholarships.</p>

4

<p>Thanks ucbalumnus and mom2collegekids! </p>

<p>ucb - we will look into those schools. To clarify a couple of things, he taking AP Calc AB and AP Stats, so nothing too heavy duty…he is not planning on a math major. I had heard about the CS direct admit issue at Washington, so we will definitely look out for that…thanks for the reminder. BTW, BioInformatics is another major possibility. </p>

<p>mom2 - agree the OOS cost at Washington/Wisconsin is not cheap, but better than the likes of Michigan, and I think Wisconsin in particular is a little lower that Washington…I believe Wisconsin is about $8K more per year than UCLA/UCSB given the high cost of LA/Isla Vista housing. Could you please clarify what schools you had in mind as good financial safeties for him if he raised his scores a bit (and how high he would need to raise them?) to get merit awards? </p>

<p>For now, we are comparing most schools to UCLA/UCSB/UCSD depending on where he gets in, as those are the top three choices right now. Wisconsin/Washington have the advantage of the Big 10/Pac 10 sports scenes and strong science programs including CS, but those are expensive football and basketball tickets given the tuition uplift.</p>

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</p>

<p>Some numbers to consider:</p>

<p>Minnesota, Virginia Tech, NCSU, Stony Brook for out of state list price comparable to UC in state. Minnesota Morris and Truman State for even lower if he wants a smaller LAC.</p>

<p>Alabama Tuscaloosa: full out of state tuition for 32 ACT or 1400 SAT CR+M and 3.5 GPA; full out of state tuition + $2,500 per year for 30 ACT or 1330 SAT CR+M and 3.5 GPA for engineering (including CS) majors – leaves net cost of around $11,500 to $14,000 per year</p>

<p>Alabama Huntsville: full tuition with 31 ACT and 3.0 GPA; full ride with 34 ACT and 3.0 GPA (SAT CR+M equivalent accepted)</p>

<p>Alabama Birmingham: $15,000 per year with 28 ACT or 1260 SAT CR+M and 3.0 GPA – leaves net cost of around $10,000 per year</p>

<p>Large (full tuition or full ride) reach level competitive merit scholarships include:</p>

<p>Park at NCSU
Robertson at UNC-CH and Duke
President’s at Georgia Tech (several levels; two highest out of state levels are full tuition and full ride)</p>

6

<p>Thanks ucbalumnus – excellent information! </p>

<p>Just to clarify a bit, his first choice is likely to be UCLA as it is a great fit for what he is looking for. Unfortunately, north of 70,000 applicants each year think the same thing, and the other UCs, while all great schools, are not as ideal of a fit for him from a social/vibe/sports scene perspective - they each have their own strengths and weaknesses. </p>

<p>The price tag of UCSD/UCSB (neighborhood of $30K) is affordable for us (so we are not looking for a lower cost as a priority) but those schools lack the Big 10/Pac 10/ACC-type vibe and sports scene that he is looking for. We are looking for a school that is the academic equal of (or better than) USCB/UCSD but more of the whole package of academics, social, sports, etc. for $30K-$35K, as alternatives to UCSB/UCSD that he can consider. </p>

<p>This is where schools like Wisconsin or Washington could come in. Cornell, Northwestern and Dartmouth have their own sets of pro’s and con’s (in addition to being reaches). We just want to make sure we are not overlooking any obvious alternatives.</p>

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<p>I think he would fine Wisconsin a fine all-around choice and there is a rapidly growing Cal contingent there. The UW alum clubs in Cal do provide some fin aid too.</p>

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<p>Minnesota is Big Ten. Virginia Tech and NCSU are ACC.</p>

<p>Iowa State has an out of state list price in your budget, has an admission formula described [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.admissions.iastate.edu/freshman/requirements.php]here[/url”&gt;http://www.admissions.iastate.edu/freshman/requirements.php]here[/url</a>], and is a member of the Big XII sports conference.</p>

<p>(Yes, the Big XII has 10 teams, while the Big Ten has 12 teams.)</p>

<p>Wisconsin and Washington are both around $41,000 to $42,000 per year out of state, which is higher than your $35,000 per year budget limit (and don’t forget to estimate cost increases over the years). Check the net price calculators to see if any need-based financial aid may come (not that likely). If not, they should be considered reaches or high matches, rather than safeties (and Washington may be significantly more difficult to get directly admitted to CS anyway), since he will either need some significant merit scholarships, or probably both decent summer jobs/internships (not guaranteed, especially if not majoring in CS) and Stafford loans.</p>

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<p>Tuition, fees and std. room and board at Wisconsin are under $35 k for next year OOS. other costs are highly variable and somewhat controllable.</p>

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<p>ucb - thank you for those added suggestions…very helpful list to consider.</p>

<p>Interested what private schools (LAC’s ok, but generally not preferred) might be a good fit for a kid (with strongest interest in the biology, computer science, environmental science, bioinformatics space) - criteria are strong academics, active sports and social scene, ideally not very urban or very rural. Religious schools ok but not ideal. Likewise any part of the country other than south preferred. </p>

<p>Cornell and Northwestern seem to fit. Any others, especially those who offer reasonable financial aid?</p>

<p>Our objective is to find a couple of schools that would be good alternatives to UCSB and UCSD that he can consider (especially if he is not accepted at UCLA, or even as an alternative to UCLA). BTW, he thinks very highly of UCLA, UCSB and UCSD, and they would be great alternatives, just trying to cast a wide net before he starts whittle his list.</p>

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<p>Barrons - that was my thought as will regarding Wisconsin – really only an ~$8000 uplift for tuition/R&B compared to UCLA/UCSB…not small change, but nowhere near the price of a school like Michigan. </p>

<p>We have another kiddo OOS, so we are aware of additional travel costs, but we have found that there are some very reasonably priced OOS public options, especially with even a little merit aid mixed in. </p>

<p>So we are considering reasonably priced well-regarded OOS public flagships, as well as generous private schools.</p>

12

<p>Private schools with respectable CS degree programs and big time sports (NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision) include Stanford, USC, Duke, Rice, and Northwestern. The Ivy League is an NCAA Division I conference, but it is in the Football Championship Subdivision, which is less “big time” than the Football Bowl Subdivision.</p>

<p>Check their net price calculators to see what they are like for need-based financial aid.</p>

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<p>While the other stuff may be somewhat controllable with frugality, it is likely to be non-zero (especially books).</p>

<p>Wisconsin’s total estimate for non-residents is $41,050 according to [The</a> Cost | Office of Student Financial Aid - University of Wisconsin–Madison](<a href=“Office of Student Financial Aid – UW–Madison”>Office of Student Financial Aid – UW–Madison) . UCSB’s total estimate for residents is $32,376 according to [Cost</a> of Attendance - UCSB Office of Financial Aid and Scholarships](<a href=“Cost of Attendance - UCSB Office of Financial Aid and Scholarships”>Cost of Attendance - UCSB Office of Financial Aid and Scholarships) .</p>

<p>If you cut out everything other than tuition, mandatory fees, and room/board in the residence halls, the comparison becomes $34,710 for Wisconsin versus $28,344 for UCSB, still a $6,366 difference (though increased travel costs to Wisconsin may increase the difference).</p>

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<p>It’s a mid-sized university in the Silicon Valley area that’s very strong in the sciences and business. It’s technically Jesuit, but Jesuit schools are religious in almost the same way the Ivy League schools are affiliated with various Protestant denominations.</p>

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<p>hampster – thanks for the suggestion…I’m very familiar with Santa Clara, and I agree it is an excellent school, however way too close to home for our son, and not the environment he is looking for.</p>

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<p>Something worth considering – if he does apply to Berkeley, note that he can major in CS either as a Computer Science major in the College of Letters and Science (L&S CS) or an Electrical Engineering and Computer Science major in the College of Engineering (EECS); both majors select courses from the same set of CS courses. The EECS major is generally regarded as being more competitive in admissions; L&S CS is likely to be more flexible if he wants a second major in another subject (including statistics, math, biology, and physics).</p>

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<p>I’m not sure if you want to go this far east, but the University of Maryland has a lot of what he’s looking for. (I’m biased!) It would be a match for him, as OOS with a 2000. If he can raise the SAT up to 2100-2200, he’d likely get merit $. With strong ECs, he may get into a College Park Scholars program (scholars.umd.edu) which are living learning programs that people say great things about. Programs like Scholars and Honors at UMD are great because they’re smaller communities within a larger university. After admission to Scholars or Honors, you can choose which program you’d like to do. It sounds like he would fit in well with the Science, Technology & Society program.</p>

<p>If he’s looking for a suburban school with great school spirit and sports, Maryland is great. They’re in the ACC, by the way. Those were some of my criteria, and I absolutely fell in love with it. The campus is BEAUTIFUL too. Maryland’s total COA is $41,000 this year, and I’m not sure how they are with OOS need-based aid, but merit money might be able to cover the difference.</p>

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<p>ucbalumnus - great point about the CS program being available through L&S at Berkeley – as you suggest we’ve encouraged our son to look at schools where CS is available through L&S, figuring it would be much easier to earn a double degree in the same college/school within a university vs. trying to cross-over between engineering and L&S. We’ve also steered him towards schools such as Berkeley that are strong in environmental science and/or bioinformatics. Unfortunately, based on our visit, he is just not comfortable at Berkeley. </p>

<p>oceanicole - thanks for the suggestion on Maryland…I had glanced at Maryland a few times in recent months (after noticing they have a well-regarded environmental science program), but just took a closer list after reading your post. It it very appealing that computer science and natural sciences are in the same college dedicated to those two areas (plus math). Will definitely suggest he give Maryland a close look…</p>

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<p>When UCSB gets a big-time football and basketball atmosphere it might matter. It has neither.</p>

20

<p>I was about to mention Cornell even though it is already on your radar. "Two undergraduate degrees are offered:</p>

<pre><code>A Bachelors of Science for students in the College of Engineering.
A Bachelors of Arts for students in the College of Arts and Sciences."
</code></pre>

<p>[Undergraduate</a> Program](<a href=“Undergraduate Program | Department of Computer Science”>Undergraduate Program | Department of Computer Science)</p>