<p>Bridie: Emory and Vanderbilt may not be considered "safeties" in general terms, but I do think they are easier to gain acceptance to than Duke. Certainly, for a student who appears to be an excellent applicant to Duke, he or she would most likely be accepted to Emory and Vanderbilt. Duke is just more difficult, because--well--it's Duke (and their applicant pool is truly excellent), and also they have ED, which limits how many they will accept for RD. Not sure if Vanderbilt or Emory have ED, but both are definitely easier schools to get into than Duke. For the original poster, if she wants to have some similar type schools as Duke (seemingly her first choice) to apply to, Emory and Vanderbilt would be good ones. Similar in many ways, and an easier acceptance. Consequently, I refer to them both as safeties in comparsion.</p>
<p>Why is Duke your dream school?</p>
<p>Emory and Vanderbilt may be easier to get into than Duke, but they are hardly safety schools for a Duke reject. Admit rates for both are under 40% and dropping, and most of the SAT range for each overlaps with that of Duke. </p>
<p>Furman, Wake Forest, and Tulane get much closer.</p>
<p>My daughter's experience underscores the fact that Duke is really, REALLY tough. She was accepted at three of the other schools on this thread mentioned as being similar to Duke - Emory, UVA, and Vanderbilt - and was apparently considered close to the top of their applicant pools, being an Emory Scholar semifinalist, an Echols Scholar designate, and a College Scholar at Vandy. Duke? Nope - waitlisted. Duke was the toughest admit on her list, and she's got "BWRK" tattooed all over her, so neither of us were exactly surprised. She'd still like to know, though, the exact reason she didn't make the cut; SAT scores at their 75th percentile, graduated #1, and was doing something right from the viewpoint of those similar schools.</p>
<p>For the OP - your community service looks unusually strong, and a compelling essay about it will make you stand out. ED never hurts, either! What's your school's track record in getting students accepted at Duke?</p>
<p>mini: I disagree for the very reason you stated: "Emory and Vanderbilt may be easier to get into than Duke . . . " Those SAT scores may overlap, but Duke is mostly taking from the top of their range. I don't think Duke is simply looking at SAT scores, though.</p>
<p>Furman, Tulane, and WF are--for sure--easier still to get into. I just don't think anyone who is interested in Duke would find those 3 schools appealing (with the exception, perhaps of Wake Forest). Just my opinion.</p>
<p>I believe Vanderbilt's acceptance rate was somewhere around 34% this year and will continue to be more selective I'm sure. There is a very good chance that the OP could be admitted, but I have come to see that there is no such thing as a sure thing at this level and the OP should have at least one true safety. My S applied rolling to UMich so had an acceptance by October. A very good strategy.</p>
<p>frazzled1: I just saw your post. I think you illustrate exactly what I was talking about. I do think that Duke's ED may have an impact. They take something like 500 in that ED round, if I'm not mistaken. And then their RD applicant pool is really outstanding. Qualified students who are applying to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, etc. are also applying to Duke, so the competition is very tough. I know Duke has published how they look at and value SAT, GPA, etc., but I suspect they also look seriously at community service, leadership, etc. And as I said before, it seems to me they lean towards kids with strong science backgrounds and possibly pre-med. That may be a chicken and egg thing, though. Those who have pre-med aspirations may just apply in large numbers. I don't know. Whenever we went to information sessions, or admissions people visited my daughter's high school, they repeatedly stated that they want their applicants to have taken the most rigorous course load their school offers and preferably make A's in them. </p>
<p>Your point about a high school having a track record of getting kids into Duke is a good one, too. As I said, my daughter was accepted as were about 20+ kids from her class. Her high school is rigorous and competitive, and they know top students from there always do well at Duke. So they do look at quality of the high school, I think, and a good track record probably does help.</p>
<p>I note that you're from NY. As you know, NY is a huge draw for Duke. The majority of students there are from NY, Florida, and NC. So she was also competing with all the other students from your home state. Anyway, congratulations to your daughter on the other school choices/honors. Where did she decide to go?</p>
<p>Thanks, jack - she'll be at Vandy and is consumed with preparations, wearing us out in the process. I think you make some excellent points about Duke selectivity. My daughter thought she had the curriculum thing nailed, having taken the maximum amount of APs possible at our school (6) and acing each, including 2 sciences. Thought she had the rigorous high school thing sewn up, as well: in our area, her hs is considered the most competitive and sends kids to Ivies in near-droves most years (a feeder school for Cornell, but this year also has grads attending Harvard, Princeton, Brown, Penn, MIT, etc.).</p>
<p>Though my daughter did her share of community service, her application wasn't focused on that, and I think probably didn't accurately describe her degree of involvement. For instance, her Relay for Life team didn't just go door-to-door collecting contributions from the neighbors and then show up on the day; they did several fundraisers leading up to the actual event in order to raise their goal of $5K. Total hours: many, but it didn't look like much of a commitment when listed on the app.</p>
<p>Though her 2 major ECs were flute and dance, she didn't submit recordings of either, primarily for lack of time. Not that she has what Duke is looking for ("exceptional talent") in those disciplines, but she's pretty darned good, and perhaps seeing/hearing the high quality of her efforts might have made her academics look more impressive in context. Then again, if the faculty experts would simply have given her a "3" on each, it wouldn't have boosted her chances much, so she decided to save her sanity and submit a meticulous written app w/o supplements.</p>
<p>Actually, 2 kids from my d's hs were admitted to Duke this year: both boys, both bound for Engineering, and both ED applicants. One was a double legacy with strong math accomplishments, and one an extremely gifted violinist with strong achievement in science. Both absolutely deserve to go, of course! Several kids (10-12) were rejected, and one other student waitlisted.</p>
<p>Hm - didn't mean to go on quite so long. I promise you guys, I'm over it. ;)</p>
<p>frazzled1: Congratulations again to your daughter. We have friends whose kids go to Vanderbilt and really love it. Sounds like your daughter would have been a perfect match for Duke, too, but I just think Duke is getting more and more like the Ivy's in the sense that so many super qualified students are applying, and they can take just so many. If it's any consolation, the surrounding area (Durham) leaves a lot (a lot) to be desired. She'd be spending all her free time in Chapel Hill (which is where my daughter is going!). But, yes, for anyone--like the OP--who believes Duke is their dream school, I'd strongly suggest applying ED.</p>
<p>I would look into Vandy, I know 2 students there, it wasn't either one's first choice initially, and they both love it. Absolutely beautiful campus in an arboretum, excellent academics and they are both getting merit aid. I don't know how it compares to Duke on many levels, but another possibility is Georgia Tech. Strong academics and they are hurting for women. Pros and cons with that. I know a young woman their on a merit full-ride, she had outstanding stats, top 5%, 35 ACT, but i think you would be likely to receive a partial. It is math and science focused. She's their for pre-med.</p>
<p>"mini: I disagree for the very reason you stated: "Emory and Vanderbilt may be easier to get into than Duke . . . " Those SAT scores may overlap, but Duke is mostly taking from the top of their range. I don't think Duke is simply looking at SAT scores, though."</p>
<p>They all claim that, of course. There's no question that Vandy and Emory are easier than Duke. But they aren't even close to being safeties for Duke rejects.</p>
<p>mini: I strongly disagree with you..but whatever.</p>
<p>I'd agree with jack on this--they may not be sure-thing safeties, but for strong candidates who do not get into Duke they are clear and comfortable matches. Judging from the results at my chidlren's HS, both Emory and Vanderbilt are quite welcoming to northerners with the OP's credentials (Vanderbilt especially). So if not actual safeties, they might be more than acceptable backups--of course I would suggest having one or two real safeties on the list as well.</p>
<p>Bridie, where in NY does your daughter go to school? My high school is EXTREMELY competitive. In the past, we have had as many as 7 student in a year go to duke. However, nobody from my school is enrolling at duke this fall. All of the Duke acceptees are either attending Yale, Harvard, Princeton, or Dartmouth. Will this help or hurt me? I know that there are several other students in my grade who are very seriously interested in Duke.</p>
<p>My husband has defined acceptance into Duke as a "crapshoot," simply because one can do everything right, yet an element of luck seems to prevail. I do think that they are trying to select a class of diverse backgrounds and talents every year so as to create an interesting community of individual scholars instead of just all "cookie cutter" smart kids. </p>
<p>Our daughter, who was accepted ED for the Class of 2008, did send in a DVD of her dancing (ballet and tap) and a cassette tape of her piano playing. We really do think that her talents in these areas helped her to shine above just having great grades, high class rank, and good standardized test scores.</p>
<p>At my son's school, (a top school on LI), I believe Duke accepted 4 kids this year. Two are going and two will be going to Princeton. I felt that Duke turned down several kids (not just my son) who were very deserving and whose stats etc. were similar to those accepted in past years. They are clearly receiving more and more applications from very top students and becoming increasingly selective, though it seems that many of the acceptances are offered to kids who are hoping for HYPS, rather than kids who would definitely do well there and for whom Duke was clearly first choice.</p>