<p>I am an undergraduate deciding whether or not to transfer. When applying to graduate schools, in general, is it better to be a B-student at a very top school like Chicago or an A-student at a good school (say lower top-20) like Smith?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Neither. It is better to be applying with the very top recommendation in your subject from your faculty advisor and profs. Unlike undergrad, your grades are just the supporting material. What the faculty are doing is evaluating your future as one of their potential colleagues. If you have no clear relationship with your profs to propel you forward, your grade point average isn't going to help.</p>
<p>Gosh mini, I'm sort of embarassed you're still following my threads* But since you decided to reply, I am really wanting to figure this out: I know recommendations are the most important thing in a grad-school application, but I was under the impression that GPA should be at least 3.5-3.6 for a student to even be eligible for top programs. So for the sake of argument, lets say I could get good recommendations in either case (at Smith, obviously they would be from lower-profile people in the field than they would be from UChicago). SO, hypothetically, would it better to be a B-student at UChicago (or a school comparable to UChicago) or an A-student at Smith?</p>
<p>I asked this in another thread, but it makes a difference:</p>
<p>(1) Are you talking about PROFESSIONAL schools (med, biz, law), or
PhD programs in an academic field? Which academic field?
(2) I think you are underestimating Smith. It has an excellent reputation, and graduate schools certainly know it is a high quality institution.
I have a number of close friends who attended Barnard, and had absolutely no trouble getting into the very best graduate programs.
(3) Do you have more serious, deeper concerns that make you unsatisfied with Smith (you don't have to share them), or is this mostly concerns with relative prestige?</p>
<p>Professional schools are VERY numbers-driven...
Top PhD programs generally do expect GPA higher than 3.5... but as mini said, letters of rec are far more important.... the relative prestige of the letter writer's is NOT as important as whether the letter-writer knows you and your work well, and can write a detailed letter on your accomplishments and potential... they DO NOT have to be from only elite research professors.</p>
<p>"SO, hypothetically, would it better to be a B-student at UChicago (or a school comparable to UChicago) or an A-student at Smith?"</p>
<p>Asked and answered. You might have a B-average, and all As in your major and have top faculty recommendations. Or you might have all A-minuses, and nobody knows you from a hole-in-the-wall. I've been there - I know what I'm talking about. It is why schools like Reed, where GPAs are generally a half point lower than everywhere else (including Swarthmore) has one of the highest rates of future Ph.Ds.</p>
<p>You're missing the point if you focus on GPA. The schools are recruiting future colleagues, not undergraduate GPAs, mostly obtained in subjects about which they couldn't care in the least. The GREs, not GPAs, are used to ensure you are literate and numerate.</p>
<p>BUT - big BUT - if you are serious about Ph.Ds, work on foreign languages NOW. Studies have shown that the single biggest cause of students leaving graduate programs is failure to demonstrate language proficiency. You won't have time (or at least most students don't) once you're already in grad school.</p>
<p>On a side note, this year Smith had 14 Fulbrights (out of 31) applicants. All as a result of undergraduate study. Highest LAC in the country by far (Swarthmore had 4, Reed 6, Williams 3, and Amherst isn't even on the charts) (Smith also has the highest number over the past 3-year period); highest number of undergraduate winners of any school (including HYP); highest percentage per 100 graduates; highest in the country in awards per applicant (with more than 10 winners), even including those with graduate students. University of Chicago had 8 (out 63), and that includes all of the graduate students who applied, so a total school population approaching 10,000. The interviewers and judges for the Fulbrights are graduate faculty. Which school has "more prestige" with graduate faculty? Which school had more "rigor" as reflected in Fulbright awards? (The actual answer to these two questions can't be known - all that can be known are the decisions made by graduate faculty.)</p>
<p>Certainly not dissing Smith or even commenting on the Smith-Chicago debate, I think the data on Fulbright grants can be misleading as an indicator of intellectual rigor for two reasons. First a proportion of Fulbright grants are given for teaching English in certain countries like Taiwan. These grants are apparently much easier to secure than the grants for research projects in various countries. Second, obtaining grants in some foreign countries are easier than other countries. Projects in Africa and Asia appear to be easier to secure than in Europe. If students from some colleges are directed to study abroad in the third world, they will arguably be better prepared to compete for Fulbright grants. This may be Smith's advantage although I admit not knowing enough about their program to say for sure.</p>
<p>You can actually look at the list itself - they have a smaller component of teaching Fulbrights than most (fewer than half), and their traditional study abroad strength is in western Europe (Florence, Geneva, Hamburg, Paris).</p>
<p>But the point was not to compare (which is why I called it a side note) - these are all great schools. The question was how do students gain admission to graduate schools, and the degree to which GPAs play a role relative to other criteria. Graduate faculty - including those who make the decisions about Fulbrights - are choosing future colleagues, and will evaluate accordingly.</p>
<p>Okay mini, I KNOW a faculty member at UChicago who would work with me assuming I don't change my major, and who has written me good recommendations in the past. (On the other hand, I very well may change my major.) But if you are a B-student in your major area (say science), would that not hurt grad-school applications even with good faculty recommendations?</p>