<p>I agree with psych_. The context where I have heard “You can always go to [X] for grad school” is one where:
a) [X] is one of the HYPSMetc. schools, and
b) the statement is well-meaning, and
c) it is often directed at a student who has very top academic qualifications, but
d) the student has been rejected by [X], because
e) something or other was perceived to be missing with regard to “fit” for the undergrad program.</p>
<p>In these cases, there is a high likelihood that the statement is true, because at the grad level, academic qualifications (including creativity, but not including some other factors), basically trump everything else. </p>
<p>However, it’s still not helpful. The student may not want to go to [X] for grad school, since as psych_ pointed out, it may no longer be the best choice for a specific field. The student may be bothered (just a little, is that okay?) about missing some of the undergrad traditions at [X]. The student may not want to go to grad school at all. If the statement comes from a GC, the student may feel that the GC did not try especially hard to write the type of recommendation that would help the student’s chances, because the student “could always go to [X] for grad school.” And on occasion, [X] is just plain weird about admissions at all levels, in certain programs.</p>
<p>Years ago, a student of mine was talking about her recent college tour. Knowing that I went to Harvard, she repeated what she’d heard from some students at–I forget, but let’s say it was Swarthmore–about Harvard: big classes, teaching fellows, yada yada yada, and she finished with, “You can always go there for graduate school.”</p>
<p>I told her, “The way I see it, if you think you want to go to Harvard, you should probably go any time they admit you, because you can’t be sure it will ever happen again.”</p>
<p>I may have said something like this to the worm. He applied 12/31 in jr for college, and was extremely fortunate to be accepted to 2 colleges that are exceptional in his field. He never saw any of the Ivys nor the schools until after admitted. </p>
<p>Grad schools paid for him to fly out and visit. Being caught in 3 snowstorms, some colleges went out of their way to accommodate. finally, he got to see these Ivy’s. Admitted to all grad schools, unlike his UG experience, and got to chose. </p>
<p>So, at least in sample of 1, it was a true statement. Of note, his roommate of many years, whose parents teach at a LAC, said ___ for UG, then ____ for grad. My words, said in 2005.</p>
<p>"I told her, “The way I see it, if you think you want to go to Harvard, you should probably go any time they admit you, because you can’t be sure it will ever happen again.”</p>
<p>I totally disagree with this. My BIL probably could have gotten into Harvard for undergrad but he was determined to get his MBA there. So he chose an undergrad program he could afford, leaving enough money for the future MBA program, which he was eventually accepted into. I think his Harvard MBA has made him a lot more money than his undergrad at Harvard would have ever made him.</p>
<p>I understand saving money for professional school as a motivation for attending a less expensive college instead of Harvard. That makes a lot of sense to me. </p>
<p>But avoiding Harvard College so you can go to HBS doesn’t, unless money is a big part of the decision. I don’t think a Harvard College graduate who goes to business school at Virginia or Michigan will end up greatly disadvantaged in comparison with an HBS graduate.</p>
<p>I’ll stop saying “you can always go to [elite university] for grad school” when people stop acting as if their life depends on going to [elite university] for undergrad.</p>
<p>Seriously–virtually every leading graduate program at big-name universities has people from a huge range of colleges. One’s entire life trajectory is not determined by decisions that happen as a teenager.</p>
<p>Not getting into an Ivy means your life is over? What?</p>
<p>The proper response is to celebrate the incredible college(s) that they did get into, not offer up chewed up consolation prize with all the fun wrung out of it that is grad school.</p>
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<p>I don’t think encouraging someone to stoke an infatuation for another four years is an act of compassion.</p>
<p>We know a number of folks among S1’s friends who took the full ride at the flagship and then went on to tippy top grad programs. These were kids who had the stats (and in many cases, the acceptances in hand) for those top schools for UG. </p>
<p>For kids coming out of S’s program, turning down HPYSM for UG and going there for grad school was a good strategy. Of course, it meant they kicked $%^ as undergrads. Hard to tell if that will happen when you’re talking about a 17 or 18 yo.</p>
<p>It seems here on CC there is severe tunnel vision on HYP(whatever). So now the complaint is about too much focus on insipid HPY grad school comments? Lots of dumb comments are made (I say plenty in error, then I learn). </p>
<p>Just stop with intense focus on the same 8-12 schools, on any level, undergraduate, professional, graduate post doc, tenure track position (just where does it stop?) and the problem may go away.</p>
<p>I agree that there are too many variables at play for this sort of statement to be a good thing to say. Getting into the graduate school in D’s field at HYPS seems to be far more difficult than getting in as an undergrad. (No way would D ever be admitted.) For one thing, one generally needs a very high GPA, so assuming a student who didn’t make the academic cut for an elite school in undergrad is just going to become a tippy top student in college is probably not a wise assumption. Secondly, achievement in the field of interest is often required, like research or specialized work experience–also questionable as to whether that will materialize. Further, I agree it just confirms the idea that elite school attendance is so very important one simply has have it.</p>
<p>We have relatives in Canada who say that as undergrad for them is very inexpensive. But, getting into Harvard, MIT and Oxford (as some of their kids did) for grad school means being at the very top of the class at their Canadian school – high grades and great recs. Not everyone is going to do that. And not all of the nieces/nephews/cousins made the grade. [The D of one family friend did get into the Fletcher School at Tufts but decided to study for virtually free at home].</p>
<p>So, I hear parents saying that when money is an issue in addition to the making hte kids feel better.</p>
<p>SlackerMom, I don’t think the problem ever goes away. There is always another hurdle. I jumped most of those but mellowed at a certain point. I have a friend who has had extraordinary recognition for extraordinary talent and work, but from the outside appears to be still waiting for the Nobel.</p>
<p>And there are other fields where getting in will be much easier than undergrad. If all else fails and a person only wants to get some kind of Ivy degree there’s always an ALM from Harvard Extension School or similar programs at Penn, Columbia etc. The point isn’t that it’s unrealistic for a kid who got into Middlebury, OSU, Holy Cross, Middle Tennessee State University or wherever [but not HYPMS] to go to HYPMS for grad school. It’s highly realistic, under the right goals and circumstances.</p>
<p>The point is that a) grad school doesn’t make sense for everyone b) grad school programs are much more diverse than undergrad, so HYPMS may not even have the most desirable programs in the student’s field c) Middlebury, OSU, Holy Cross, Middle Tennessee State University are amazing and wonderful places and if a student is feeling despondent about getting in to one of them [but not HYPMS] the solid thing to do is express excitement at the opportunities there and encourage the student to make use of them, not keep harping on the Ivy thing.</p>
<p>I think it depends on context and what the intent is. If you say “You can always go to [X] for grad school” as a consolation or comfort to a kid a can’t get in or can’t afford his dream school then that’s fine.</p>
<p>But if you are saying to a dissuade a kid from attending his dream school who has an acceptance in hand, and for whom the finances could be made to work, then you are doing the kid a disservice - particularly if the school is highly selective. Saying he can “always” go there suggests that getting into the graduate program will be easy, perhaps even a sure thing. Graduate programs at selective schools are usually just as hard and often far harder to get into than the undergrad.</p>
<p>Contrary to your assurances, lightning may not strike twice for that kid.</p>
<p>If you read the rest of my post, you’ll see that I said this rarely happens. The vast majority of students get over it after a semester or a year.</p>
<p>I think it’s just something people say. Nobody looks at a kid playing playground basketball and truly believes he’s the next Michael Jordan even though they may say that to be nice to the parent; nobody sits through the fourth grade music recital and actually thinks they’re listening to the next Mozart. I think people have a bucket of socially acceptable responses to a bunch of life’s situations and they pull one of those responses out based on the circumstances.</p>
<p>People- please stop conflating graduate programs. The reality of an MLS or a PsyD or a PhD in School Counseling vs. a PhD in Classics or Neuroscience vs. an MS in Mechanical Engineering vs. Law School or MBA are apples to kiwi fruit to bananas. And the hideous reality therein- there are some grad programs where prestige really does matter (really, really really matters, and if you can’t get into one of the top programs it is not worth going), and some where prestige doesn’t matter at all, and some where it matters for some career outcomes but not for others.</p>
<p>On CC someone can always be counted on to trot out Curmudgeon’s D. As if the medical school experience at Yale is the same as the undergrad experience. It obviously is not.</p>
<p>^It’s not like you want to go to Yale to hang around New Haven. You want to go for the residential college system, great professors etc. And med school is one of those “grad schools” where the name is generally less important.</p>