<p>D's SATs were 610V 630M (retaking in the Fall). 3.35 GPA. No ranking, but probably about top 1/3 in one of the top ranked-high public schools in our state. D has over 400 hours of weekly volunteering at a hospital, plus a few other volunteer, leadership and club activities. No AP credits, but she's earned 16 credits with a 4.0 GPA from dual enrollment in Community College. Good recommendations from high school teachers that know D well. </p>
<p>D is primarily looking at large public schools in PA, Ohio, NY and MI, but will consider any school in New England, Midwest or the Mid-Atlantic. Major is undecided, but interested in biology (maybe nursing). D doesn't want a school that is very frat-sorority oriented, or that is really unbalanced with male-female enrollment. D doesn't want a small or urban school.</p>
<p>Would D realistically have a slim chance at getting accepted by any "name" or "prestige" nationally known schools, like Cornell, Notre Dame, U-MI, U-VA, etc.? She'd like to visit one or two "prestige" schools to see what they're about, but has also decided that she should only look at them if there'd be at least a slim chance. Otherwise, she'll stick with her comfort-zone matches and safeties.</p>
<p>I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your D won’t be a competitive applicant at a “name” school. </p>
<p>The good news is that there are many, many good schools which offer just as good an education that you’d find at a name school. Essentially, your D will be learning the same things wherever she goes. The main difference will be the ability level of her peers.</p>
<p>Instead of looking at the USNWR top 25 schools. Consider schools in the 50-100 range. There are many gems there!</p>
<p>I wish I could have been more positive. I assume that your D is a senior. Make sure she does her best during fall semester. Retaking the SAT is a very good idea; it can’t hurt really.</p>
<p>No, your daughter isn’t competitive for those schools. Where do the other students from her school who are top third attend? That would be a good guide. If she’s interested in nursing, she will want to make sure any uni she considers has nursing as a major-- many do not.</p>
<p>She has good match and safety schools where she’d be happy to go, but is curious about the so-called “name” schools. She knows she isn’t competitive at the Ivies or even most of the nationally known schools below the Ivies - but has been wondering if there was any school of that caliber that might look at her overall record where she could apply as a reach or far reach. Her GC is being encouraging too, and has said the school will make personal phone calls for her and do everything possible to help if she finds a dream school. They know that D has also been an after-school caregiver for a parent with a degenerative terminal illness throughout high school. </p>
<p>One of my kids has a friend who got into Cornell with scores that were lower. My kid hadn’t tried to apply there, because he believed his own chances were in the <25% range. My kid has been disappointed that he didn’t even try, and will never know if he might have been accepted or not.</p>
<p>Another one of my kids applied only to match and safety schools. At the last minute this kid sent an application to a large public university where chances had appeared to be lower than 25% range…and was happily surprised when an admission letter arrived. </p>
<p>If you don’t mind losing some admission fees and wouldn’t be crushed by rejection letters, applying to reaches or dream schools isn’t always a bad idea! Going to a school where your numbers are lower than the rest of a class doesn’t necessarily mean that a student will be at the bottom of that class academically, or that the student will definitely have a problem keeping up. A lot of factors come into play, including work ethic, area of study and strength of high school. One of my kids has been doing much better in college than his roommate who has higher numbers with a full ride. (My kid said that a lot of the freshman college material had already been covered in our high school, while his roommate’s high school had covered different material in its math/science classes.) My kid that got into the school with numbers <25% has just graduated with high honors from a university where he was initially rejected as a freshman. </p>
<p>D’s siblings are encouraging her to identify some reach/dream schools, since you never know unless you try! Finding appropriate reaches to visit appears to be a lot more difficult than finding safeties or matches.</p>
<p>I agree that a child should have reach schools on their list…because as you have stated, you never know. But there are reach schools that will put a child at the lower range of being admitted…and those that are so off target that it is a waste to pursue.</p>
<p>A 3.35 is a B+ average and her SAT scores are pretty much the equivalent. For most highly ranked schools (top 25), being at the top 10% of the class is seen as a cut off. Yes, there are exceptions, but generally those are balanced by something that makes a student stand out above all others: a special talent, athletic skills or a legacy.</p>
<p>It seems that many of the schools below the top 25 would still be a reach for your D. You should definitely concentrate there. If those schools (in the top 25 to 50 range) are what you see as a match for your D, I would re-evaluate. Some of those may still be reaches.</p>
<p>I’m sorry but I don’t see why there so much pressure for this good B student to find a reach/dream with big-name value. All students have reaches but depending on their stats and other credentials the reaches vary. </p>
<p>The numbers do not seem to be there for the schools you mention The schools you mention are pretty much reaches for many students with substantially higher numbers, so unless there is something in your D’s portfolio that is not clear in your posts, I don’t understand why a well-trained in-touch GC would feel it necessary or appropriate to encourage an app to a school such as UVa, or Notre Dame or Cornell or a similar very selective place. Yes, I know that top students sometimes use Michigan for a rolling admission “safety” but that does not mean than an out of state kid with a 3.35 and mid 1200 (you didn’t say what the Writing component score was) is a viable candidate–especially in a year when financial pressures in Michigan may skew the applicant pool. I don’t think instate students with your D’s credentials are getting in to Michigan or Virginia so would not think it makes sense to apply from out of state.</p>
<p>Overall this quest in fact it seems to do a disservice to your D and to other students like her. Aren’t there more constructive ways to dream? Like finding a great fit, doing really well, learning about things she never knew about before, making wonderful friends at that great fit school, being really good at her chosen profession? There are going to be fine professors and students at any number of colleges. The need to have a “name” on the app list seems rather sad to me wherever it originates.</p>
<p>Neonzeus - How does your D feel about this? Personally I feel that it’s a good idea to have a reach school (or two) on a student’s college list … and it wouldn’t bother me to have nine rejections as long as I had one acceptance to a school I really liked. But my D takes rejection personally, and her college list reflected that. Different strokes …</p>
<p>I think your daughter might have a shot at the Cornell Ag school for life sciences programs. Give it a try. What have you got to lose?</p>
<p>I would recommend Syracuse for biology. It’s great. I assume she apply to Penn State.</p>
<p>Rochester was a good suggestion.
Other reaches: Boston College, U Maryland, Ohio State, Fordham, Pitt, Michigan, UVA. Your daughter has a reasonable shot at all of these. Shoot for the moon.</p>
<p>theres absolutely nothing wrong with applying for a reach, if she is genuinely interested in it and if admission isn’t completely out of the realm of possibility.
what about NYU?</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, while reading your post, I immediately thought Notre Dame. That was before seeing it mentioned in a later post. I also agree that U Rochester would be a good one to look at. She has the community service and the good record in CC level courses, and that may put her into contention at a better school.</p>
<p>Just out of curiosity, I checked Naviance at our school to see if we were being perhaps too harsh with our predictions.</p>
<p>Here are accepted averages for some of the schools mentioned. There were NO acceptances for the schools in the top 25 for students in your D’s range at all…not even close. </p>
<p>Boston College: 97.46 1453
U of Michigan: 94.76 1322
U of VA: 98.11 1443</p>
<p>Fordham: 92.79 1232
NYU 96.99 1389
U of Rochester 96.01 1357</p>
<p>The above GPA’s are weighted…with 5% given for honors and 7% given for AP’s.
You can see that the 2nd group (schools below the top 25) are still a reach.</p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestions for reach schools. She’s looking at each of the suggestions today! She won’t be crushed by rejections, but doesn’t want to send applications anywhere where her numbers would automatically cause her application to go into a circular file. </p>
<p>I’m a little surprised at some of the negativity in response to a request for some possible reaches. It’s not as if D is yearning for HYP…just curious about the schools that are a reach, and deciding whether to visit them and maybe take a chance. (Someone from last year’s class did get into BC with a GPA the same as D’s.)</p>
<p>Our public HS is ranked as one of the top schools in our state. It offers countless opportunities to earn awards (even my D has some wins on her record in both English and engineering regional competitions). The top 25 kids typically go on to ivies and other elite schools. Starting in September the HS will have 3+ colleges visiting the school for interviews every day. (I wouldn’t be surprised if budget problems cause colleges to cut back on their high school visits this year, though.) Our GCs work hard to develop networking with colleges, and are happy to pick up a phone to talk to one of their contacts about a particular student if it might help that student get an interview or get accepted. I guess that’s why the school encourages kids to try for reaches and why sometimes our grads actually make it into their reaches. Among other things, the GCs have a glossy information sheet that they send with apps identifying the high school’s many awards and accomplishments. The school has some unique offerings, like an anatomy class for seniors using computers loaded with medical school software. A few of our HS’ students received national recognition this past year for particular accomplishments, so it’s a very talented bunch. All of the kids spend the last semester of Junior year working on their college application essays in their English classes. The GCs are totally dedicated and work like a finely oiled machine towards the college admissions of each graduating class from September to March, when they turn to the upcoming Juniors and start all over again. </p>
<p>Again, D really appreciates the suggestions!!! Some kids have trouble identifying safeties, but she’s having trouble identifying schools in that 25%-35% range that might be worth a look. She acknowledges that her safeties are not going to be the same safeties as the top kids in her class, but considering our HS her reaches might be a little higher than other B/B+ students’ reaches. Our HS has sent kids to Notre Dame for the last few years, and our GC has specifically mentioned it as a possiblity for D. I like the idea of the SUNY Ag school at Cornell, and will definitely encourage her to take a hard look at it as a possible reach.</p>
<p>I think that Rochester would be a big reach as a bio major because she would be competing against many students with much higher credentials, many that are using Rochester as their match school against not making Cornell, Columbia,MIT, etc. I would suggest that she look at University of Delaware, University of Pittsburgh, Case Western and perhaps a school like Franklin and Marshall. At all these schools, as with Rochester showing demonstrated interest and a strong essay would help.</p>
<p>Ooooh, Case Western! That’s a really good suggestion too! I think you make a really good point about the major being relevant. If a particular major will be more competitive, that can make a “reach” into an “uber-reach.”</p>
<p>A B+ student interested in biology and nursing? Her phone will be ringing for the rest of her life from prospective employers, believe me. Looking ahead, a university that encourages undergraduate non-business majors to take business courses might be something to look into as well. An experienced nurse who knows his or her way around a budget spreadsheet, and can read and understand an audited financial statement…priceless.</p>
<p>Mini - She’s looking for schools that would be harder to get into. Then she’ll research them them to decide if she’s interested in trying to apply. At the end of this process, she might decide that the reach schools aren’t more appealing than her matches (like MSU). She just doesn’t want to look back someday and wonder if she might have actually been accepted at a great reach school since she didn’t even try. </p>
<p>Brainsprain - You’re a sweetheart! She actually reads the business section of the paper and has an interest in business as well as biology. You make good points. I intend to retire and move in with my kids as soon as possible, so I do want all of them to be lucratively employed at the end of this process. I plan on taking hour-long showers, playing WOW all night, leaving my dirty dishes in their sinks and using their gas when I borrow their cars to go see my friends. I can hardly wait.</p>