pls help us make sense of things

OP, for what it’s worth, I am genuinely surprised that he didn’t get in. I realize that doesn’t change anything but i share your surprise.

As others have said, Carleton has great rep…but I would ask you to not give up on the WL at UChicago…I have heard good things from others who have gotten off the waitlist…it is doable…and it will give your son something to focus on.

http://uchicagoadmissions.■■■■■■■■■■/post/79867884547/advice-for-waitlisted-students

I’m one of CountingDown’s friends with a delightfully happy Carl grad. :wink:

Clearly, your ds has the academic goods. I think if you’re looking for a reason, the age thing may have been a factor, but, really, it is what it is at this point. Aren’t you thrilled a think-outside-the-box Carleton has confidence in your ds and saw something others didn’t? Their loss. Have you visited? Come read the Carleton forum and see the people who rave about their school.

The only reason Carleton isn’t as highly regarded as Williams and Amherst is because most folks in East Coast “prestige belt” can’t find it on a map. It’s a great college in a nice, little town, and two weeks from now your son is going to be really, really excited about all the opportunities that lie in store for him there.

^^^ That. And, truthfully, lots of people like that it flies a bit under the radar. The people who go there really want to be there. I hope OP’s ds becomes one of them.

ETA: Plus it IS in the top 10. It’s not chump change. Rankings are based in part on fellow administrators’ rankings. The East Coast LACs are going to rank each other highly. If Carleton (or CMC) were to move up, someone else would have to move down. I just don’t think that’s going to happen.

I haven’t ever posted on a CC forum, but I spend a fair amount of time lurking, and I have to say that this thread has some of the most thoughtful and empathetic posts I’ve read. As Singersdad said above, OP, congratulations to your DS. He did remarkably well in high school and he should love Carleton. I just met a high school senior from the Midwest who is going to attend Carleton this Fall, and if she is any indication of the bright, interesting, well-rounded students at Carleton, your son will do just fine.

By the way, despite getting into several great schools, my daughter was crushed (for a few days) by the rejections. I think that’s the nature of the game. It’s painful but unavoidable.

Goodness, thanks so much everyone, for the positive and heartening feedback and support! Yes, it has been a lovely and empathetic discussion. My take away is this: that Carleton is a fabulous college for many reasons; that DS’s essays may have impacted decisions; that there can be constellations of stats, experience and ECs that just don’t ‘speak’ to LACs; that there is a certain randomness to it all; that perhaps age may have played a factor; and teenage boys are resilient (thank you–I needed that reminder!). Oh, and that this forum is filled with wonderful, thoughtful folks.

About the age thing, DS is 17. My post from Jan. 2014 was describing his situation last year, when he was 16. I keep on forgetting this (and I certainly shouldn’t), but this year was this very ambitious kid’s second try at college applications–he applied to several very highly selective colleges last year (after completing his HS IB program) but didn’t have a high school diploma…and didn’t get in. Different year, different (and more realistic) batch of colleges this time around, a high school diploma, more experience, but still, it’s his second try, and he wasn’t expecting just one positive result out of six applications to highly selective schools–I’m sure that is adding to his difficult feelings.

One more thought related to age: I can’t help but think that his transcript and high school experience–rife with community college credits since age 12, missing a HS freshman year, reflecting what looks like two senior years, and the whole high school thing done in three years–was so weird that admissions folks just couldn’t see a match. Or maybe it was the community college thing–our only higher ed option locally. Ah, enough with the double guessing!

17 is still very young for a college freshman and certainly could have been a factor in some of the holistic decisions especially coupled with a somewhat scattershot history. There’s quite a bit of maturation and growth in boys between 17 and 19 and even more between 19 and 21 compared to the young women I’ve met through the years. Personally, I think Carleton would be a very good environment for a younger person.Having spent quite a number of years in Minnesota, i know many happy successful Carleton grads and frankly these days Carleton’s “rep” has become quite high. Congrats to your son.

Carleton is a great win. I don’t get not being excited about it.

Shoot, I remember thinking Carleton was a great school 30 years ago. I would’ve applied if I lived any closer. Congrats to your boy!

Congratulations to your son. Carlton is a great school. Suggest to him that one great acceptance is all he needs; he should look forward and not agonize over rejections, which can make you nuts.

In some parts of the country, the school cutoffs are December not September so 17 is not unusual for a freshman at all. I was 17 with a Dec birthday and not at all out of the norm - I was always the youngest but not out of the norm.

Carleton is one of my favorite LACs. Top notch education with a very happy and accepting student body.

I can certainly understand the shock and anguish you and your son must both be feeling. I was shocked reading about all the rejections, and scared as I have a DS who will be applying to some of those same colleges next year (or maybe not!), who is a strong candidate but not nearly as impressive as your son. I will say that I will be thrilled if my DS ends up at Carleton.

I have found some data that your son might find interesting:

http://www.inside-higher-ed.com/college-rankings/baccalaureate-to-ph-d-in-science-and-engineering-feeder-schools/

Look at the link, bachelorstoPHD, at the bottom. Whether or not he plans on a science/engineering career, a good record of producing Ph.D. scientists is a strong indication of academic quality. Clearly, the information is a bit dated because of the long delay between college graduation and earning a Ph.D., but in my view this is very valuable information to have. Look how well Carleton does.

As everyone says, Carleton is a great school, not second-rate in any respect. For what it’s worth, the daughter of some close friends, a girl I have known since before she was born, chose Carleton a few years ago over the University of Chicago, Bowdoin, and Middlebury, among several others. She is one of the very few young people I know who is successfully pursuing exactly the dream she had when she left for college. Carleton supported her doing that in many ways, but it also allowed her to check off some side-dreams at the same time.

Also, it’s hard not to notice that your son applied to nine schools, five of which seem to have been Ivies, Williams, and Chicago, which means that they were among the 15-20 places with the lowest admission rates anywhere. Bowdoin and Carleton are both top-10 LACs, only a tad less selective than Williams. He did really well to be admitted to three out of four of his non-ridiculous-reaches.

Here’s a link to the Williams paper about admissions this year. http://communications.williams.edu/news-releases/3_26_2015_admits/

Note that some crucial info is missing. Still, I can tell this much. 47% of the class --targeted to be 550–was filled in the early round. So the acceptance rate in the regular round is a LOT less than the overall acceptance rate.

My offspring’s alma mater is very unlike your S’s high school, but out of curiosity I checked the stats for Williams for the last 5 years (not including this year). The percentage of applicants who applied early and were accepted was literally twice as high as the percentage accepted RD.

Williams is sports heavy. 44% of Ephs play a sport. Over one-third are on varsity teams. http://communications.williams.edu/media-relations/fast-facts/ So, your S’s focus on sports ECs probably didn’t help him stand out in the applicant pool. If he didn’t express an interest in continuing his sport at Williams that probably hurt too. http://athletics.williams.edu/prospective-students/

His SAT scores put him almost exactly at the median for accepted students. I suspect that it means that they put him in the bottom third of middle class white applicants–assuming he is one. That didn’t help either.

He seems to be aiming for a math major. Williams is known as one of the strongest LACs for math. It’s a very common major there. http://communications.williams.edu/media-relations/fast-facts/ That isn’t going to help him stand out in the applicant pool either. Maybe he did have an AIME score, but you haven’t listed one and a lot of applicants to Williams will. They will also have AP scores in AB or BC calculus and have participated in things like USAMTS or math contests like ARML. Maybe your S has as well…I don’t know. I am ONLY saying it’s hard to stand out for your math skills in the Williams applicant pool and these sorts of things help.

I know your S is hurting, But, posting the same thing for the gazillionth time…

Admissions to LACs in particular is a lot like casting a high school musical. The director doesn’t just pick the 25 most talented singers, dancers and actors and make them the cast. Instead, they audition students for a particular role. At most high schools, more females than males want to be in the musical, so it’s quite possible that a boy who is less talented that a particular girl will get a part while she doesn’t.

Then the director has to take into account vocal range–so many sopranos, altos, bass voices, etc. Again, if the show is Guys and Dolls, you need a bass voice. Odds are there will only be a few bass voices who audtion. Meanwhile, there will be a ton of altos…It will be much harder to get a part for them.

As a regular round applicant with a focus on math and with sports as his principal EC, your S was competing within one of the most competitive categories at a highly competitive school. I know it hurts, but that’s what the problem was. And it’s quite possible that your S is actually more talented mathematically than some of the students Williams admitted. He may simply have been at a disadvantage because he didn’t compete in math contests or take some of the national exams.

You might want to read the thread about kids overestimating the odds they will be admitted to a top college.

Carleton is an excellent college. Believe it or not, a fair number of kids from my NYC neighborhood have gone there and they all seem to have enjoyed it.

Everyone is all over Carlton, but he was accepted to two California schools too. What’s wrong with them? I’d pick a UC over Carlton any day, but I’m partial to sunshine and lived through 5 Minnesota winters.

^Good luck getting the classes you want in that overcrowded UC. I’ll take the small, discussion based classes at Carleton any day.

My son did four years of HS and was still 16 when he entered college (did early entry and accelerated in elementary school)- STEM interests although globally gifted. Yours certainly is not that young. His major decision will be a presumably elite large public U or a small LAC. My son had no interest in LACs. He needs to consider the availability of courses in his proposed major and similar fields. Mine was able to take grad level math courses for his major at our high ranked for math flagship. He also was not the youngest in his Honors physics as a freshman- there was a 14 year old HS girl doing Youth Options. Do not discount the intellectual options at public U’s. Living in the dorms now works since no one else is of legal age either.

Which school does your son favor? If his CA options include UC-Berkeley or UCLA why bother with Carleton? He certainly can handle college life at large schools as my son did.

Should clarify that the universities my son applied to and was accepted to were U of Vermont, and Montana State U.
We’re not CA residents, btw. Those choices were led by his passion for nordic ski racing–lifestyle choices! Both are out of state for us and offered merit grants based on his GPA/SAT scores, but not to the extent that Carleton offered for Scholarships/financial aid (not even close). I’m a little worried about DS running out of math classes at a LAC, yes, but this kid also is passionate about history, political science, chemistry, physics…felt like a liberal arts college might work for him. Feel like I’ve been flying by the seat of my pants for the entire lifetime of this kid and certainly can doubt many of our earlier educational decisions for him; that said, we’re not in an area where there are a lot of options.

I am so thankful for everyone’s comments. I will be showing DS the comment on Williams, etc. I’ve learned so much.
DS is gradually realizing many kids on his team and classes have had similar results to him, so he’s developing a sense of perspective. Despite the odds, at this point he plans on pursuing a place at Bowdoin from the WL and also will be visiting Carleton later this month. Every comment is useful–thanks so much!