Politely requesting chances and suggestions.

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

I know chance threads are for entertainment purposes only and I would like to join the fun. Or share the stress… whichever you prefer. :wink: I know I have good stats and I honestly am not looking to humblebrag, I just want to know if I am thinking straight or if anyone has ideas for good fits for me.

GPA: 3.93 UW - 4.38 W

Rank: Top decile but probably #1 or #2 out of 450, guidance counselor wrote in rec for summer research job “one of the top students if not the top student in his class”. Top 10 ranked school in NJ that sends 10 kids a year to ivies and about 60 kids a year to top 50 colleges (says Naviance).

ACT: 36 first try (36,36,35,36).

SAT: 1510 (will send ACT)

Subject Tests: USH 800, Math 2 780, Chem 770 (taken before AP Chem)

PSAT: 1500/225 (hoping for NMSF)

8 AP classes in core subjects (USHist, Eng, Calc, Phys, Chem, CS) most rigorous available. All 5s on 3 AP tests taken so far (USH, English Lang and Comp, Phys1).

Recs: In addition to above GC wrote “one of the smartest kids I have met in my career” and also complimented me as a person (I was really happy and grateful to see that). Other two I hope are excellent, from AP teachers I had last year.

Essays: Writing those now, putting a lot of work and thought in… I know it is important.

ECs: Main one is a maker hobby I have had some commercial success at. It is my real passion outside of school and I spend most free time I have on it. I don’t want to say what it is because it would identify me but people ask to buy what I make from me. Since I can’t make enough to sell to everyone I started donating items to charity auctions this year and it has gone well. Also officer of Chinese Club, leader of Chem club, badminton club, and a few other clubs (nothing serious just fun). I play guitar in a band when we can get together.

Summer: Chemistry research assistant with professor at a top LAC on NSF funded project (I’m there now). So far I am just a lackey for the undergrad I am paired with but it is really fun and I am being well paid and learning a lot. Working with an amazing professor I hope will write me a recommendation also.

Awards: a few school ones so far, National Chinese Honor Society, AP Scholar, hoping for NMSF and Presidential Scholar from ACT score.

White Male, upper middle class, parents both college grads, no hooks. Hopeful Chem/Chinese double major, but want some art classes too although those are for fun.

Will not apply for financial aid, parents do well and have saved and assure me they will pay wherever I want to go. I know I am really lucky there.

Colleges I would love to attend:

Brown (ED)
Williams
Amherst
Dartmouth
Vassar
Middlebury
Hamilton
Colby
Michigan (EA)
Rutgers (EA)
TCNJ

Also Union, Bucknell, Wesleyan, Skidmore, Dickinson, F&M (but haven’t visited those yet – will probably apply to at least one of them).

I know there are many “reaches for everyone” on my list. I also know Rutgers is my only safety but if I have to go there it will be cheap and their chemistry is very good, and every time I think of another safety I realize I would prefer Rutgers even though I’d be a little disappointed. Thought I would love Bowdoin, RPI and Cornell but didn’t. Yale blew me away but I decided not to let myself fall in love with something so unlikely.

Open to college suggestions as well as chances. You can probably tell what I like from the list above, I prefer open curriculum and drivable from NJ.

Thanks in advance for your honest opinions!

2

The combo of 36 ACT, solid GPA, and unusual (for a white male) Chem/Chinese double-up make you a very strong candidate at both Amherst and Williams–and, by implication, at all the lower-ranked LACs on your list.

You certainly have the numbers to get into Brown or Dartmouth (or, for that matter, Yale), but Ivy admissions seem very unpredictable for unhooked/non-URM/non-legacy applicants. Again, the Chem/Chinese angle provides an avenue for distinguishing yourself from the mass. Make sure that your essay works to frame the singularity of your combination of interests.

3

I think that you have a good list. My take on it (although I am not from NJ) is that the last two on your list are both very good universities and also safeties for someone with your excellent stats who is from NJ – a very good combination to have on your list. You also have multiple very good matches or mild reaches.

4

Based on your preference for a flexible curriculum, Brown, Amherst and Hamilton might represent your natural top choices.

Not incidentally, Hamilton’s Chinese program appears to be one of the strongest available:

https://www.chinainsight.info/education/general/231-associated-colleges-in-china-a-hidden-gem.html

If you like Yale, apply.

Overall, your list seems great, and it’s hard to see how you would miss out on an awesome college experience.

5

Are you going to be a pre-med? You have amazing stats. If I were you, I would not go to a LAC. You should be able to get into top universities. Also, I don’t think you need to apply to as many places as you are.

6

@ceilingroofgoat LACs are not /lesser/ than universities or something to settle for. It’s a different category and a different undergraduate experience.

As mentioned by merc81, Amherst, Brown and Hamilton all have open curriculums and are all great schools. While the Ivies and top LACs are reaches for everyone, as you note, I think you have a fighting chance at admission to all of them.

You should apply to Yale if you are interested! Yes, it is unlikely due to their single digit acceptance rate, but you are just as qualified as their other applications. It does have distribution requirements, unlike your ED choice of Brown.

7

@glittervine Yeah but they’re not really as good academically. I’m not talking about the learning experience in the class, but he might have less access to research opportunities there. The top Chemistry researchers are at CalTech, Berkeley, MIT, Yale… not at Amherst or Hamilton College.

8

@ceilingroofgoat Sorry, but that’s just not true. If anything, he will have MORE research opportunities with professors (edit: at a LAC), as professors at large universities often use graduate students as research assistants. Amherst and Williams are on par academically with Brown and Dartmouth. I don’t know as much about Hamilton, but I assume it’s much the same.

9

@glittervine Nope I think you’re wrong. Make sure you look into this carefully OP and don’t take our word for it. What kind of groundbreaking chemistry research is coming out of small LAC’s? I suspect the answer is none compared to giants like MIT, Berkeley, some of the Ivies, etc. I think that OP would have far better access to equipment, materials and research opportunities in chemistry at a university that has a strong graduate chemistry program and is producing a lot of top research.

10

Well, which equipment, which materials? Access, in any event, to available facilities would generally be greater for an LAC student than for an undergraduate at a university. Beyond that, at LACs with strong chemistry programs, research opportunities have been structured into the curriculum.

11

@merc81 I don’t know I’m not a science major. I’m just putting this out there so OP can look into it. I know for students trying to go into banking/consulting/business it is not good to go to a LAC because it’s so small a lot of firms don’t target them for recruiting

12

If Yale “blew you away”, why isn’t it on your list?
Also agree that you can get into great grad schools from LACs, so if you prefer Williams etc, choose that. You should have some good options I think.

13

Forbes might be associated with these fields for many, from which a connection can be made to their assessment on the above perspective:

10 Expensive Colleges Worth Every Penny

  1. *Amherst*
  2. Dartmouth
  3. *Williams*
  4. UChicago
  5. Tufts
  6. *Colgate*
  7. UPenn
  8. Columbia
  9. *Hamilton*
  10. *Vassar*

https://m.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2017/04/26/10-expensive-colleges-worth-every-penny-2017/?c=1&s=OnCampus

14

@ceilingroofgoat I’m sorry but you seem to have a little bit to learn about the top LACs.

Amherst and Williams both are targets for Wall Street. Moreover, the research opportunities for undergrads tend to be better at top LACs than at research universities. Yes, the most groundbreaking research is happening at large research universities, but it is rarely being done by undergrads. It is being done by the hundreds or thousands of grad students at those universities, the ones who are brought there precisely to do that research. At LACs, there are no grad students, but the professors still do plenty of research. Guess who they have to choose to help them? The percentage of undergrads students doing research with a professor is higher at the top LACs than at almost any research university (Caltech is the obvious exception, but it is smaller than most LACs)

On a per capita basis (which is the only thing that matters), Amherst and Williams place students into top medical schools, law schools, MBA school, PhD programs, Wall Street, Fulbright scholarships, etc. at roughly the same level as HYPSM.

15

@ThankYouforHelp No they’re not. Spend some time on wallstreetoasis

Edit: well, they are semi-targets but not as good as top universities with business programs

16

I guess it sounds like I’m wrong about the research though. Make sure you look into it OP

17

My only question is why aren’t you applying for yale? It seems like something that could happen!

18

@ceilingroofgoat I don’t know what threads you browse but according to WSO(As a matter of fact, WSO is created by a Williams alum), Williams and Amherst are targets. No MBB or big IB will pass over an application from these two schools. Moreover, even when they are isolated and do not have a lot of students as compared to big uni, a lot of companies still come on campus to recruit:

https://careers.williams.edu/job-and-internship-fair-2016/
https://careers.williams.edu/2016-job-and-internship-fair/

Just on-campus recruitment alone, some of the big names are Bain, Barclays, Bank of America, Booz Allen Hamilton, Citigroup, Analysis Group, Credit Suisse, Deloitte, Oliver Wyman, Parthenon–EY, Putnam, UBS.

19

@williams2021 They are not top targets. They’re semi-targets. I don’t see Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan in that list you provided. Anyway this is derailing OP’s post. He’s a chem major

20

@ceilingroofgoat you’ll find them at Amherst. Well, not Morgan.

Goldman Sachs
Deloitte
Morgan Stanley
Bain & Co.
Bank of America Merrill Lynch
Parthenon-EY
Citigroup
(just a few)

Also, if you review this document you’ll find INCREDIBLE resources for students interested in going into finance there.

https://www.amherst.edu/system/files/media/LoebCenter_AnnualReport_2015-16.pdf

https://www.amherst.edu/campuslife/careers/amherst-careers-in/business-finance-entrepreneurship

And if OP’s chem major is something that he sees as pre-med, then a LAC is an excellent choice there too, IDK about the rest but Amherst has an amazing pre-med placement record. Of the 2016 cycle, 82% of med school applicants placed in med schools on the first try.

The med school that got the most Amherst grads lat year was a little U named Harvard with 6 Amherst grads. This is a remarkable record because Amherst doesn’t pick and choose who gets med committee rec letters, they support every student who wants to apply. They begin pre-med advising freshman year and students are guided through the entire process.

Also, Amherst hosts its own summer research program open only to first and second year Amherst students. They are paid well and get to do some awesome work.

If, like my kid, there isn’t a good research topic fit that summer, professors will help you apply to funded summer research programs at other universities - my D is doing one right now at an Ivy League U.

I think you have some major misconceptions about LACs in general.