Political Sciences & Economics - MIT vs. Columbia vs. Princeton vs. UPenn vs UCLA?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello everyone,</p>

<p>I'm currently studying at Sciences Po - a prestigious French political university. For my third year I must go to the US and I can choose between the above-mentioned five universities. </p>

<p>Which would be the best choice for Political Sciences, Regional Economics and International Relations?</p>

<p>My main priorities are prestige, career opportunities, networking, connections and a possibility to get my master's later on.</p>

<p>P.S. I am on a scholarship, so tuition fees are not important for me, but living expenses are.</p>

<p>I've never been to the US and only know of the unis from rumours...</p>

<p>MIT: I know MIT is famous for their techies, so I am not sure if it's wise to apply there for social sciences. Obviously I like the fact that it's near Harvard, so I can socialise with their students, but I think I'll only get the name of MIT on my CV, nothing more?.. Please do correct me if I'm wrong!</p>

<p>Columbia: Not sure if I'm going to like NYC - as I used to live in London and hated it (too crowded, dirty and expensive) - but Columbia has a great reputation in social sciences, right?</p>

<p>Princeton: The name does make an impression on employers in Europe and I know its reputation is immense. Any snakes in the grass?</p>

<p>UPenn: I know it is slightly less prestigious than the two Ivies above, but Wharton Business School is ranked as No. 1 in the US - since I would be able to study there as well - perhaps it is also important?</p>

<p>UCLA: I don't know why I actually picked this one. It does obviously stand below any of the four above and I'm not sure if LA is a nice place to be (no offence, but I've heard a lot of stories of gang feud, drugs and violence) - but since it is an important international trading center, perhaps? The university is reputable as well?...</p>

<p>Please, give me some advice, or list any serious pros and cons I should consider, as this is a fairly important decision for me.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot.</p>

<p>Best regards from Paris.</p>

2

<p>

</p>

<p>As much as i love UCLA, i agree that for you it does seem oddly placed. As a result, i won’t address it much in the rest of this post.</p>

<p>And UCLA is reputable, but i admit, a notch below these other four.</p>

<p>

</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Prestige: MIT = Princeton > Columbia = Penn > UCLA</p></li>
<li><p>Career Opportunities: Do you know what type of career you’ll want? If you’re unsure, i’d go to a more well balanced university than MIT. That would probably leave the ivies.</p></li>
<li><p>Networking: UCLA probably wouldn’t do as great in networking as the others. MIT (since it’s specialized) might not either (unless you’re going into a tech field.) So again, the ivies would do well here.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>**i assume “networking” and “connections” are interchangeable?</p>

<ol>
<li>Both Penn and Columbia have programs with Sciences Po to get masters degrees.</li>
</ol>

<p>I’m not really sure there’s a best university with all the criteria you’ve specified. But i’d recommend one of the ivies you’ve listed. Of them, here’s what i’ll say:</p>

<p>Princeton is cheaper than Columbia, and possibly cheaper than Penn. And it’s more prestigious than the two, and might give you access to better networking/connections than Penn or Columbia would due to its prestige. While it isn’t in NY, it’s very close (many commute from NJ to NY.) So if you ever wanted to be in a sort of “international trading center” it wouldn’t be very far. It does, however, lack a masters program with Sciences Po.</p>

<p>Columbia, as i noted above, is a notch below Princeton and MIT in prestige. NY is a much more exciting area, but it is very cramped, dirty, and expensive. It’s networking opportunities and princeton’s would possibly be the same. And it has a masters program which would be a good fit.</p>

<p>Penn has Wharton which is great. But i’m not sure if you’d be able to take advantage of it. Since it does have the best business school, it wouldn’t be a stretch to infer that it has pretty good economics as well. It has a masters program with SP (but with it’s law school) and is possibly less cramped, cleaner, and less expensive than Columbia would be. Although it is also less prestigious than Princeton.</p>

<p>If you’re willing to sacrifice the masters program, i’d say Princeton might be the best fit. If not, then either Penn or Columbia.</p>

3

<p>@beyphy,</p>

<p>Thank you very much for taking time to give me all this useful and specific information. Looks like I should be aiming for Princeton. It doesn’t bother me too much that Princeton don’t have a double master’s degree with SP, since I am planning to apply for Master’s directly to them, instead of opting for a double degree with SP and another US university. </p>

<p>I hope it is going to be possible, as I’m slightly confused by the fact that I will spend my 3rd year of SP with 3rd years of Princeton for example, BUT I’m going to get my Bachelor’s Degree at the end of the 3rd year, whereas at Princeton (and most other US unis for that matter) they study towards Bachelor’s Degree for 4 years.</p>

<p>So basically people with whom I would study would be in their 4th year, whereas I could apply for Master’s?..</p>

<p>This is a confusing part and I do hope it doesn’t mean I won’t be able to apply to any US university with 4-year-long Bachelor. Sciences Po has partnerships with a lot of great unis in US. If they only consider our 3rd year equal to their 3rd year, this could be a big problem, right?</p>

4

<p>I think most prestigious graduate programs in the U.S. (at least in political science) will have heard of sciences po, and will have no qualms accepting a degree from it.</p>

<p>Your degree should at least be accepted in the institutions that it has partnerships with, which, if memory serves, should also include Georgetown and Johns Hopkins, in addition to Penn and Columbia.</p>

<p>Also, you should be aware that many people in the U.S. finish their degrees in three years. They do this by taking like 20 units a quarter/semester in addition to summer and winter classes. So you shouldn’t worry about durration.</p>

5

<p>I have a different view on this. I think Sciences Po & UCLA would also make your CV look just as good as the others in the view of many top employers in Europe as UCLA is very well-regarded, highly respected in Europe.</p>

<p>If I were a European (and I supposed you are), I would attend UCLA. Sciences Po to UCLA is not a step down. It’s just about blending your degree and expanding your experiences. </p>

<p>UCLA provides a different feel. It has lovely campus environment, great academics, great athletics programs, stunning architecture, great faculty, diverse student body and best weather. None of the Ivies can match that in a way UCLA does, in my opinion. </p>

<p>Some pictures of UCLA:
[Ucla</a> | Los Angeles Wedding Photography | Orange County Wedding Photographer - Destination Wedding Photography](<a href=“You searched for ucla”>You searched for ucla)
[UCLA</a> - InfoBarrel](<a href=“http://www.infobarrel.com/Media/UCLA]UCLA”>http://www.infobarrel.com/Media/UCLA)</p>

<p>I wonder why you didn’t apply to Stanford or Berkeley. As a European, aim for California schools. You will love California.</p>

6

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s certainly true, but none of this was emphasized as being particularly important by the OP. UCLA is very clean, but it’s also very cramped: get out of a class at 11 or 1 and hundreds of people will be walking around at the same time, heading back to the dorms, or going home. admittedly though, this probably happens only for 10 minutes every few hours.</p>

<p>UCLA’s also very expensive. This has to do with the area its in, with some of the dorms being less than half a mile (.81kilometers) away from Bel Air. The apartments in the area are pricey as well.</p>

<p>The networking would be limited because the vast majority of the students would be California Residents, and California’s elite, if they want to stay instate, would be much more likely to go to Stanford than UCLA. (probably Berkeley too if location wasn’t important)</p>

<p>I was also under the impression that the OP wanted to eventually work in the U.S. (and perhaps in finance) in which case the others would be a notch (or two) above UCLA (at least in the U.S) It also puts a bit of doubt in my mind of how prestigious UCLA is in Europe. The OP doesn’t even know why he decided to put it in his list of schools. Perhaps he’s just vaguely heard of UCLA as a ‘good school’?</p>

<p>Granted though, i have heard that UCLA is a peer of the ivies in Europe. But i’ve never been there so i’m not sure how true this is. It’s international prestige is certainly very high, but again, given everything that the OP wants, i’m not sure that it would be the best fit.</p>

7

<p>^^^ In my understanding, the OP was talking about choices for him to spend a year (only) as an exchange student. It’s not like the OP was aiming for a school to boost his CV so he can remain and work in the US. (And if that’s what he really wants, spending a year at Harvard won’t give him a boost either.) Most exchange (undergrad) students I know want to be in a lively, cooperative, friendly, exotic, foreign-looking, great environment. Except for the high cultural sense of fashion that’s prevalence at both places, Paris and LA are exactly opposite environments - from architecture, language, tradition, culture to weather. UCLA provides excellent combination of academics and fun. And, as a French at UCLA, gaining friends with the girls at LA wouldn’t at all be a problem. ;)</p>

8

<p>@RML,</p>

<p>Well, actually, beyphy got my intentions right. Although I am going to the US for an exchange year, I do have plans to apply for Master’s Degree and (possibly work afterwards) there. I believe spending a year in a university like Princeton, or Columbia should in theory increase my chances of getting in afterwards. (Assuming their teaching staff will have known me personally and will have seen how I perform, etc.)</p>

<p>Or is it wrong to assume that?</p>

<p>Again, I am not looking for any life-changing or exotic experience - my top priority is respectable and strong academics of the university. Weather, girls, architecture do not worry me at all, as I have travelled enough now.</p>

<p>I chose UCLA purely because I used to have a dream to live in LA when I was a kid (and UCLA is not a bad university), but now I do not consider it anymore because of what I have read above.</p>

<p>Stanford is not a partner university of Sciences Po and as previously stated my aim is to get the very best education, no matter what the climate is.
I’ll be able to travel afterwards, when I have a well-paid job. ;)</p>

9

<p>I am not convinced that the teaching standard at Columbia is higher than at UCLA for the areas you’ve mentioned, especially for economics, as UCLA is very strong for economics as well. I think all of the top 30 or so schools (ranked by USNews) have very high teaching standards. Now, if you’re actually saying you are preparing for postgrad econ/polsci at a top US school, I’d say choose the school where you want to take your postgrad at, then aim for that school. In such case, I’d recommend Princeton if not MIT. But even if, say, you’ll do end up at UCLA, be proud of it as UCLA is a highly respected school globally. I bet even the top academics at your department at Sciences Po would vouch for that.</p>

10

<p>

</p>

<p>I should warn you that my post is in no way indicative of Los Angeles as a whole. Los Angeles is HUGE! According to wikipedia, it has 10x the land mass of Paris. Seriously, go to Googlemaps and enter Los Angeles, CA and you’ll see it’s immensity. </p>

<p>You never mentioned that you had a dream of living here either. If THAT’S the case (especially with what RML is saying) it might be worth while to take the adventure to Los Angeles. You are after all in college, and at this point in your life there’s plenty of new and exciting things to experience. If you want a good read on the virtues (and caveats) of living in Los Angeles, this article sums them up very well:</p>

<p>[New</a> York vs. Los Angeles: L.A. is a ‘heavenly place’ - CNN.com](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/01/travel/los-angeles-battle-ireport/]New”>http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/01/travel/los-angeles-battle-ireport/)</p>

<p>While i still stand behind what i said above, they were said from a US perspective. If you plan on working outside the US, UCLA is much more well regarded. Your degree will say Sciences Po, not Princeton should you choose to go there, or any other school. And it will likely be a small point on your resume. So while Princeton seems like it would be a great fit considering everything you want, one year seems to be too brief to really take advantage of its resources. It’s not enough time to join a fraternity, or really network with people in your classes. So although Princeton, as i noted above, would have the best choice, going to Columbia or Penn might be a better investment of your time. They won’t just be a small point on your resume, but will give you an actual degree.</p>

<p>Still, though, going to Los Angeles might ultimately be one of the best decisions in your life. You can undoubtedly go here later in life, but it’s unlikely that you’ll have as much freedom as you do now. And since the city is so immense, a brief vacation wouldn’t do it justice. It might be worth thinking over. </p>

<p>And here’s a cool video showing some of the virtues of UCLA</p>

<p>[Welcome</a> to UCLA! - YouTube](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1e11lsrSvw]Welcome”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1e11lsrSvw)</p>

11

<p>The more I know, the less I understand…</p>

<p>Now you have both reignited the fifth option of UCLA. </p>

<p>The problem is that my desire to go to LA is nothing but a stupid childish dream (and watching too much of the Big Lebowski, I guess, haha) - anyway, I come from a less affluent family (read poor) and have learned to put any whims of mine on the last place, giving career prospects and top performance the top priority, as I have to pull both myself and my family and to be able to earn enough to provide for them all.</p>

<p>Considering that LA is expensive, UCLA graduates’ average salaries are significantly lower than those of any of the Ivies and finally that in Europe names like Princeton or MIT are widely-known and inspire awe - whereas UCLA is not really known to a layman (and believe me a lot of employers in Europe are laymen when it comes to academic reputation of universities). Plus I don’t even know if I’m going to like it in LA. London, a city of dreams for many people, turned out to be very irritating for me.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I do plan to study in the US and possibly work there in the future (I can’t say it now, since I haven’t ever been there), so if UCLA is known and well-regarded, I may as well keep it in mind, too.</p>

<p>BTW, beyphy, why do you think I cannot apply to Princeton for Master’s afterwards? I know they don’t offer double degrees with Sc Po (unlike Columbia or UPenn) - but I don’t really want to study either Public Policy or Pure Law - because I don’t have enough connections (or desire) to become a politician and I don’t have enough patience to become a lawyer. (and there are no other subjects offered for double degrees in the US)</p>

<p>I would like to study Urban Strategies or Regional Economics for my Master’s - something to do more with geography and development and less nice talking and hypocrisy ;)</p>

<p>And since that Master’s Degree is not offered as a double degree with Sciences Po, I wanted to apply independently to the US, for example to Princeton. They are also a partner institution of ours, but don’t offer any double degrees. I mean, technically, I could even apply to Harvard? If they don’t have any exchange programmes or double degrees with our university, it doesn’t mean I can’t apply there upon getting my Bachelor#s, although I imagine it would be a much longer shot with Harvard…</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>Ah, i can relate (believe me that i can.) Los Angeles’ expensiveness hasn’t deterred the less affluent from coming here. Trust me, there’s a lot of poor people here. How do people manage? They either work multiple jobs, get a well paying job (apparently waiter’s/waitresses can make A LOT of money here if you work at the right restaurant) and take out money in student loans.</p>

<p>your biggest expense, undoubtedly, would be housing. But that can be mitigated significantly by roommates (i paid <500 a month to share a bedroom with someone) but i find that the majority of the time these types of situations are rare. And coming to a new city without these living arrangements set up might be unnerving.</p>

<p>I guess the best point i can make is that Los Angeles is probably no more expensive than Paris. If you can make it there, you can probably make it here as well. (but i’m assuming your family isn’t from Paris.)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>If you’re calculating the average salaries based on Payscale data, be warned that it’s not wholly accurate. I think Drax has noted many times that Payscale doesn’t take into account masters/professional degrees (about 2/3rds of UCLAs graduate get professional degrees.) So they data for UCLA graduates is skewed.</p>

<p>I can’t tell you about UCLA’s reputation in Europe because i haven’t lived there. I have heard that its reputation is strong, both in Asia and in Europe. However, how strong in comparison to these others, i cannot say. But if RML says its reputation is strong, i’m inclined to believe that that’s the case.</p>

<p>You’re right that you may not like it, but that’s the part of what’s involved in taking a risk. You’re making a bet that has no guaranteed result. I guess it’s just one of those situations where, after you’ve long finished, you’ll sit there wondering “What if?” That’s something you really have to know yourself to decide. Granted, you never specified what when you’d want to live here, but now would be a great time.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You can certainly apply to them. My post was specifically talking about the dual masters programs that SP has partnerships with. But if you’re not interested in getting either of those degrees, then that changes things quite a bit.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You can apply to them from any university. It debatable however whether going to one university would give you more of an advantage than attending another. There’s strong data suggesting that universities have strong incest rates (i.e. accepting a majority of their own students for their professional schools) However, It’s actually been really debated whether going to one of these elite universities provides any advantage in gaining admittance to another one. While top universities like Princeton tend to send more people to top programs, they also have generally much stronger students. Some posters have argued that it does, but i think the data (because of my previous point) is far from clear. But even if it does, i’m not sure that it would affect your situation, since you’d only be attending for a year.</p>

13

<p>Princeton is your best bet.</p>

14

<p>OP, UCLA econ/business econ grads would compare quite well with the Ivies’. Do not believe that there is a significant difference in salary scale between Ivy econ grads and UCLA econ/business econ grads. Humanities grads at UCLA are pulling the average salary scale down. But UCLA Econ/Business Econ (as well as CS and engineering) grads are earning quite well. The difference I see is that, most Ivy grads are concentrated in the East Coast while UCLA grads are concentrated in California. </p>

<p>Again, attending an Ivy as an exchange student does not give you a boost when it comes to employment opportunities after graduation or application to post grad school in the US or in Europe. For one, your diploma will not come from the Ivy school you’ve attended, but from Sciences Po. There will be no indication on your diploma either, so your employer wouldn’t really know. And, even they they know, I don’t think they’ll care about it that much. And, two, most top employers in Europe do not distinguish an Ivy school from UCLA for economics.</p>

15

<p>I would recommend Columbia (NYC), MIT (sick Econ department) or Princeton (very well rounded). Personally, I would choose either MIT or Princeton.</p>

16

<p>Alexandre, he is looking to spend an exchange year at one of the aforementioned universities. With that said, it makes no sense to go to Princeton which maybe the best school in the country at the undergraduate level, but wouldn’t be an ideal environment for a visiting student due to the insular campus and suburban environment.</p>

<p>UCLA would be the best choice here followed by Columbia. You want to be in a large school so its easier to find a crowd you like an exciting urban area to spend your year in the States.</p>

17

<p>In my opinion, NYC >> LA</p>

<p>LA is one of the ugliest city you’ll ever see. But even if you don’t care about aesthetics, you’ll have another problem if you don’t plan to buy a car - public transit is virtually non-existent. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/10/06/why-is-los-angeles-so-ugly/[/url]”>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/10/06/why-is-los-angeles-so-ugly/&lt;/a&gt;
[LAX:</a> You’re ugly, LA | Gelatobaby](<a href=“http://www.gelatobaby.com/2011/09/01/lax-youre-ugly-la/]LAX:”>http://www.gelatobaby.com/2011/09/01/lax-youre-ugly-la/)
[THE</a> TOP 10 UGLIEST CITIES IN THE WORLD](<a href=“http://www.ucityguides.com/cities/10-ugliest-cities-in-the-world.html]THE”>http://www.ucityguides.com/cities/10-ugliest-cities-in-the-world.html)</p>

18

<p>By the way, I can also go to Berkeley…</p>

19

<p>MIT has a top business school</p>

20

<p>I lived in SFB and LA before. I think Berkeley will be a better option than UCLA:</p>

<ol>
<li>The students are of slightly higher caliber and you will be surrounded by more smart students.</li>
<li>Berkeley/SF will be much more enjoyable than LA without a car.</li>
<li>I personally think the SF Bay Area is a lot prettier.</li>
<li>The crowd in SF Bay Area are more educated/intellectual. I felt that LA was pretty anti-intellectual. This is probably minor as you probably interact mostly with those on campus, not the local residents.</li>
</ol>