<p>Newmassdad- Thanks for your opinion and insight. I think you have misinterpreted my goal, though. I enjoy having a diverse group of friends. My high school is actually extremely liberal and internationally focused, and some of my closest friends are liberal democrats. I love the fact that we can have heated debates and still be friends at the end of the day. I am not looking for a monolithic student body, just one where my opinion will be respected and I will not be looked down upon. (I am currently in a summer program on a college campus right now where that is definitely not the case.) I just want to find a school where I can find my niche.</p>
<p>emswim, I would not judge a college by its summer program attendees. Most summer programs are far from representative of the regular student body. After all, the prime requirement for summer program attendance is the ability to afford substantial tuition, since summer programs have far less financial aid available than the regular year.</p>
<p>The truth is that ANY kid that does not fit the dominant stereotype of a school, whether it be geek, greek, jock etc, will have some challenges, but also a lot of fun - what do you think the geeks do for fun? Make fun of the greeks, of course...</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Finally, a comment about the supposed "liberalness" of higher ed faculty. This received a lot of press last fall from one side of the political spectrum.</p>
<p>Newmassdad,</p>
<p>I liked your posts, so dont take this as a criticism of your views, since to the degree that I find myself in the same situation as emswim, I take them to heart.</p>
<p>However, as regards the liberalness of higher ed faculty, I had the opportunity to hear Dartmouths President Wright speak to this issue just prior to the election of the Board of Trustees at Dartmouth in which the two maverick (conservative) candidates (unendorsed by those attached at the hip to the administration) actually won the only two open seats, against all odds.
<a href="http://www.dartreview.com/archives/2005/06/12/the_lone_pine_revolution.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.dartreview.com/archives/2005/06/12/the_lone_pine_revolution.php</a></p>
<p>In the Presidents remarks, which came across as an apology for the liberal direction Dartmouth has been bending for, he mentioned an article in the NYT by, of all people, Paul Krugman. In it, according to President Wright, Krugman wondered why we would find it peculiar to find Professors and administrators at universities to be substantially more liberal than Americans as a whole when we have its opposite effect in conservatives being over-represented in business and finance; that is, in business we have something of a conservative hegemony and in universities a liberal hegemony.</p>
<p>Upon hearing this rational appraisal I thought, well, of course. But within the context of the overall apology I was suspicious. It seemed overly defensive. So I thought harder and realized that we, as a society, are somewhat suspicious of the conservatives in business and wouldnt it be logical to be somewhat suspicious of the liberal excess and self-indulgences in academia? </p>
<p>Further, we, as a society, react to the obvious conservative nature of business administration (suspected greed and self-indulgence) and even regulate its excesses (on occasion). Ive even heard that business schools are putting a greater emphasis on ethics in both their applicants and course requirements (at Wharton for instance).</p>
<p>So why would academia be immune to this natural criticism. Are those in academia so enlightened as to see beyond their excesses by the force of their own moral fiber with a sense of the good, of balance and of caution, without the gadflies within American societysuch as they areremarking upon it and perhaps even hoping and attempting to remedy the excesses of such instincts, much as we make such attempts when it involves conservative excesses in business and financeeven half-hearted attempts?</p>
<p>As a rule, it seems there is no need to offer hierarchical inducements to get people my age to think or behave liberally I think.</p>
<p>College campuses have always been pretty liberal places. Nothing inherently wrong with that and it doesn't necessarily make for a hostile environment - but it can. I was conservative even way back in the day on a pretty politically active liberal campus. It wasn't a particularly bad experience, being in an infinitismally small minority I was more a source of amusement to my friends than anything else. But I think changes in the political make up of the country, conservative political ascendence has really angered and embittered many on the Left. What would only have amused them 30 years ago can enrage them now. Having never in their lifetimes been in the political minority they cannot accept having to defer to the majority.</p>
<p>The House, the Senate, the White House, most governors mansions and half the state legislatures in Republican hands and now the Supreme Court too! The heretofore mainstream media loosing readers and viewers in droves. All that is left of the Left is in the ivy covered halls of academe and they appear to finding it increasingly difficult to accept these political defeats with good humor or good grace.</p>
<p>So yes I can understand someone who would want to go to a school that is a little less in your face liberal than Oberlin or Swarthmore or UW Madison. You can want that without wanting to go to Ku Klux Klan U.</p>
<p>Fountain,</p>
<p>No offense - in fact, nothing you said is inconsistent with what I posted. Yes, college faculty are more liberal than society as a whole. They are not, however, more liberal than their economic/educational peers, IMHO. This is where it gets interesting. The implication of the press reports during the campaign last year was that colleges somehow discriminate against "conservative" viewpoints. Possible. I think it more likely, though, that the same attitudes that lead one to higher ed also lead one to be labelled liberal, just like similar values may lead to business success and the political label "conservative". Food for though.</p>
<p>At any rate, even an Oberlin could be an iteresting environment for the right kind of conservative. After all, what better way to sharpen one's thinking than to discuss with one's opposites?</p>
<p>
[quote]
All that is left of the Left is in the ivy covered halls of academe
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Really? I don't recall Bush being voted in by such a huge majority...</p>
<p>
[quote]
At any rate, even an Oberlin could be an iteresting environment for the right kind of conservative. After all, what better way to sharpen one's thinking than to discuss with one's opposites?
[/quote]
This is very true, for the *right<a href="no%20pun">/i</a> kind of conservative student. FountainSiren, for example, will take no prisoners wherever she goes, having the confidence and rhetorical skills that she does. Others, however, might be disheartened to find themselves in a situation where their beliefs are considered by many to be beyond discussion, and thus intimidated into silence. The "critical mass" argument used in AA discussions--a requisite size that a given "community" needs to reach in order for its members to feel a part of the larger community--would seem to be equally relevant in this regard. You know, you wouldn't want the other students saying things like "conservatives are just mean" or "you belong at Ku Klux Klan U."</p>
<p>The OP would do well to spend some time perusing the web site of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. <a href="http://thefire.org/%5B/url%5D">http://thefire.org/</a></p>
<p>And, of course, the degree of politicization varies wildly from campus to campus. As I've said, I've found Williams to be rather apolitical, and that when they have hot-button issues pop up, they're discussed heatedly, but maturely. I have two friends and a relative on the faculty at Wesleyan, where, I'm told, the student body has gone far to the left of an already very left wing faculty, and it's created issues for some professors in the classroom.</p>
<p>"After all, what better way to sharpen one's thinking than to discuss with one's opposites?"</p>
<p>Yes usually that is the case but not sure how many "thinking" liberals you get at Oberlin. Not being used to or even seeing the necessity to defend their positions folks at schools like that usually just respond with invective or a pie in the face. Besides you can very well be conservative and not have the desire to constantly defend your positions or even debate them. Go to any thread on AA on these boards and argue against it and see how long it takes before somebody calls you a racist. Most folks conservative or liberal don't need that and don't necessarily feel the need to explain to their peers why they were or were not at the last NARAL or A.N.S.W.E.R. rally.</p>
<p>For a true safety you should probably look to Texas A&M College Station. You would definently be well on your way to getting in with your stats, and it is super conservative. I don't know about swimming, but it is a big ten school.</p>
<p>Texas A&M is Big Twelve, not Big Ten.</p>
<p>"Besides you can very well be conservative and not have the desire to constantly defend your positions or even debate them. "</p>
<p>I totally agree, but if one is in this group, then why would it even matter what the "flavor" is of the school"? This is why different political, social, sexual, you name it persuasions co-exist. Most folks view this stuff as personal or private matters, and do not choose to engage others in discussion. But if that's the case, then why does it matter? </p>
<p>Even the frequently bashed Oberlin (and I wonder how many of the bashers have ever been to the campus???) is more alternative than flaming liberal. And if you don't know the difference, let's talk.</p>
<p>"Yes usually that is the case but not sure how many 'thinking' liberals you get at Oberlin. Not being used to or even seeing the necessity to defend their positions folks at schools like that usually just respond with invective or a pie in the face."</p>
<p>Does patuxent have the least bit of actual experience with Oberlin to support this ridiculous overgeneralization? Since I'm one of the "folks at schools like that"--Oberlin, in fact--I take great exception to his charge. All my friends at Oberlin take considerable pride in reasoned, civil debate and respect for diversity. I don't know any pie-throwers, literal or otherwise.</p>
<p>dave72 - I only know what I read in the papers (in this case the Oberlin papers). In an article covering Tony Kushner's 2005 Convocation address.</p>
<p>"For the question-and-answer installment, one student asked how members of the Oberlin community, as progressive people, could look at conservatives without dehumanizing them. Was there any way to discuss the behavior and temperaments of Republicans using adjectives other than stupid? </p>
<p>Its a filthy habit I just cant stop because Im so angry all the time, said Kushner of his own tendency to write Republicans off using such words. We do live in times that are polarized not because were calling each other names but because we want radically different things. Were in a war right now, and the stakes have never been higher. </p>
<p>Right now, I think its okay to scream fire in a crowded room, Kushner said, because we need to do it. "</p>
<p>dave72 - Maybe your friends at Oberlin take considerable pride in reasoned, civil debate, but there is obviously a body of students who don't and an administration which invites speakers on campus who actively encourage them not to.</p>
<p>Patuxent: you misunderstand the student's question. She was asking (I was there) precisely the question I think you would have liked her to ask: i.e., she was calling Kushner on his use of the term "stupid" to describe Republicans. She was urging him <em>not</em> to dehumanize them.</p>
<p>Yes, the administration invites provocative speakers, including Kushner, who is arguably the most important American playwright of the last 25 years. The administration also invites conservative speakers who are also provocative. Do you not think that's precisely how a liberal arts education ought to work?</p>
<p>PS. You should know better than to believe everything you read in the papers.</p>
<p>dave72 - But it is the Oberlin Review! Certainly I can trust the esteemed editors of the newspaper of record for that august body of scholars? </p>
<p>Have to admit I find it hard to extract your benign interpretation of the students question from the newspaper report. But then I wasn't there. Still the question I have is why would such a question even come up in an intellectually diverse community of scholars? If your first impulse is to scream, "Stupid!" at someone whose ideas you disagree with you obciously are not used to operating in an environment where you think ideas need to be defended - the point of my comment about "liberal and progressive" institutions like Oberlin.</p>
<p>Your quarrel is with Kushner, not with the Oberlin student.</p>
<p>I never said all points on the political spectrum were equally represented at Oberlin. It's a very liberal campus. But conservatives can and do get a respectful hearing from the people I know. Of course there are some who are more intolerant. But your original charge was that everyone at "schools like that" is intolerant--and that's just foolish nonsense.</p>
<p>BTW dave72 the three Convocation Series speakers that proceeded Kushner were Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, Anthony Lewis, and David Brooks. Which one of those do you consider a conservative? Or do they only invite conservatives on off years?</p>
<p>You don't consider David Brooks a conservative??</p>
<p>No I don't consider him a conservative. Only the New York Times considers him a conservative. He is the Weekly Standard's house liberal. Michelle Malkin Oberlin '92 is a conservative and the most distinguished journalist Oberlin has produced in the last couple of decades but I haven't seen her name on the speakers list and if she makes it will be curious to see the reception she gets.</p>
<p>Well, then, we simply don't speak the same language. I think we've hijacked this thread long enough. (Sorry, everybody else.) I'm done.</p>