Pomona College vs Johns Hopkins

College Search & Selection
61

Don’t you only have a few days to decide? I thought Pomona only gave students a week to commit or move on.

Just listen to your heart, honestly. As cliche as that is, you’re the only one who knows what you want out of your college experience and I’m sure you’ve confronted certain thoughts and feelings over the past few days. It seems like you’ve gotten a lot of perspective from people (I saw topics on other websites as well), though I will say a lot of it is JHU focused simply by nature of them being a much larger school. I could see a lot of misconceptions regarding Pomona with the perspectives detailed (including the one above), but at this point I don’t really find it worthwhile to “dispute” points raised. If anything, they can give you a sense for what colleagues and friends might perceive a degree from a top LAC to mean, whether or not that’s grounded in anything true. If the opinions of others is something which especially matters to you, and you want to impress others with your institution, then there is the appeal of Johns Hopkins which is widely renowned as a leading university. I will be honest with you that Pomona will not give you much in the way of immediate glamour, and not everyone can tolerate that. But as a recent graduate, I know I was able to have the best undergraduate experience there and can stand on my own accomplishments and perspectives rather than the public worth of my institution alone.

No point in overthinking this. Small LAC with the individual attention and undergrad-centered experiences, or big university with world-class professors and research? They are vastly different. Enough has been elaborated at this point regarding the pros and cons of either. One will clearly resonate with you more than the other. Good luck with your choice, and once you’ve made it, move on to imagining the excitement and possibility you’ll have as an incoming first year at either!

62

@nostalgicwisdom and everyone. I have 2 more days. I will let you know how it goes. But I will
Likely pick Pomona, I already got the merch lol. Just want to carefully process how I felt at each school.

63

@nostalgicwisdom I’m thinking about this all day and I’m still conflicted. If you saw my quora question, the answers present very good reasons for JHU and I love the school. But I love Pomona too!

64

@Drawcodawn, are you already familiar with JHU’s Human Language Technology COE?
(https://hltcoe.jhu.edu/about/)
Have you investigated opportunities for undergrads in this center?
Have you checked out ~related internship opportunities with firms/agencies in the Baltimore Washington corridor?

IMO they are both fine schools; one could make a good case for either one.
For your specific areas of interest, I would think JHU offers greater breadth/depth.
Maybe this should be a key consideration (more than prestige or name-recognition, which are high for both schools). However, if I weren’t satisfied that good opportunities extend to undergrads at JHU, I’d probably prefer the Pomona/Claremont environment. Have you contacted JHU departments/programs about how undergrads participate, what they’re doing after graduation, etc.?

65

I saw the quora thread. One of the posters hasn’t even started at JHU yet (he’s Class of 2022). One of them has no experience with Pomona or the Johns Hopkins undergrad program. The other makes a completely absurd point, IMO that because it’s not Harvey Mudd, Pomona shouldn’t be considered. Never mind that someone with your broad interests would definitely fit in better at Pomona than Mudd (they don’t offer philosophy, linguistics, or cog sci).

You’re going to need to think about the information you’re getting and where it comes from. Quora is a prestige obsessed website with a international audience. This one values LACs more. All of us have our own biases. At the end of the day, it’s your decision and your life. If you’re going to be influenced on the whim by whatever anyone has to tell you, instead of thinking critically about what your own values are, you are going to regret the decision at some point.

66

@nostalgicwisdom that’s exactly what I thought. If Mudd offered me admissions I wouldn’t really go b/c of my interests. I’m writing out a cost/benefit point comparison for each school right now based on all the info I obtained and things I felt.

67

INO Pomona harder to get in. I tried to interest my kid to apply to Pomona but he really wanted to go to a big school.

68

Quora is indeed prestige obsessed. Here are some opinions straight from the mouth of Pomona students and alumni.

https://www.quora.com/How-prestigious-is-Pomona-College-Do-the-employers-respect-a-Pomona-College-diploma

69

Admittedly biased, but FWIW my sister who received her BA at an LAC and advanced degrees at an Ivy, gave this advice to my Pomona kid when facing a similar decision: “You can always go to a big university for grad school, but you can only experience a small LAC as an undergrad.”

70

@websensation

Difficulty of admissions is subjective in this case. Pomona has a slightly lower acceptance rate (8.4% versus 11.7% for Hopkins) but Hopkins has the edge in freshman test scores:

SAT scores of enrolled freshman for Pomona for class of 2021: 1330 - 1520
ACT scores of enrolled freshman for Johns Hopkins for class of 2021: 30 - 34
Percent of freshman in top 10% of class: 94%

SAT scores of enrolled freshman for Johns Hopkins for class of 2021: 1460 - 1480
ACT scores of enrolled freshman for Johns Hopkins for class of 2021: 33 - 35
Percent of freshman in top 10% of class: 93%

71

@websensation Massive typos above as I have to get to work…=). Corrected below.

Difficulty of admissions is subjective in this case. Pomona has a slightly lower acceptance rate (8.4% versus 11.7% for Hopkins) but Hopkins has the edge in freshman test scores:

SAT scores of enrolled freshman for Pomona for class of 2021: 1330 - 1520
ACT scores of enrolled freshman for Pomona for class of 2021: 30 - 34
Percent of freshman in top 10% of class: 94%

SAT scores of enrolled freshman for Johns Hopkins for class of 2021: 1460 - 1580
ACT scores of enrolled freshman for Johns Hopkins for class of 2021: 33 - 35
Percent of freshman in top 10% of class: 93%

72

2021 is a bad year to compare given the concordance issues with the new SAT and old SAT (also, Pomona’s CDS states 1370-1540, not 1330-1520).

If those numbers are accurate for Hopkins (they seem higher than what the admitted profile reports, which is usually not the case, but theoretically it is possible), then they’ve deliberately shifted their admissions process to be more numbers driven. Those numbers would be at or above what schools like Stanford, Harvard, and Yale reported this year. At least from 2014-2016, JHU was ranked around 20 or so for entering student testing (one source here: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-50-smartest-colleges-in-america-2016-10) so going to top 5 or so is a big shift.

Pomona’s numbers have actually come down slightly despite more and more applicants, and I think it’s due to the opposite effect. They’ve cut down on a numbers driven process (at one point, Pomona was ranked 5th in the nation for highest entering student stats) in pursuit of a holistic one, though they still want top students (hence the high % ranked in the top 10%). Pomona has had the highest percent of underrepresented minority students of any highly ranked LAC or university for the past two years, alongside their commitment to socioeconomic diversity (top 10 by a ranking in NYTimes and one of only three private colleges to be there; JHU ranked 72), first-gen students, rural representation, QuestBridge, two cohorts of Posse, and other community-based partnerships.

Furthermore, compare what each admissions website has to say:

JHU: https://apply.jhu.edu/application-process/

We’re looking for students who can think beyond their limits, who don’t see ‘impossible’ as a roadblock, and who will not only elevate themselves, but also those around them.

Pomona: https://www.pomona.edu/admissions/apply

Evidence of:
Investment and involvement in a community or passionate pursuit
A love for learning, and a willingness to challenge yourself and go outside your “comfort zone”
An openness to new ideas and rejection of easy answers
An appreciation for a collaborative learning environment
Personal character — be it grit, kindness, diligence or serving others
Risk-taking and adventurousness
Creativity and innovation
Appreciation for the visual and/or performing arts

Is one harder to get into? I feel like a high stats student with good ECs and clear ambition could potentially count on getting into JHU in a way they can’t at Pomona. OTOH, the students scoring the 30 or below at Pomona might not be able to get into JHU.

I don’t think this is too important to a decision making process in particular, but I do find it intriguing that the schools look for different things. JHU really seems to stress challenging one self and seeking to be the best you can be. Pomona has more of the liberal arts character. It can be a good reflection of the sort of students who attend either one.

73

Pomona’s acceptance rate was 6.9% this year. Jhu is 9.9%. I believe Pomona selected around 6 Canadian applicants whereas jhu picked 10-15. But the selectivity doesn’t really matter that much to me.

74

Also, speaking of the quora link, the common story I see is that the name brand isn’t super great outside of academia but people are still able to get to top destinations for both careers and grad school, so one shouldn’t worry too much. Which is what I’d personally say as well- and it also seems to be the perspective of most recent grads. With one exception, and I mean, he’s entitled to his view, but that doesn’t mean he’s correct regarding outcomes (at least for the present- he’s a 2005 grad). Since he referenced Amherst and Williams in specific, there are data points from the three schools showing that the salaries across these schools are similar (CollegeScoreCard & PayScale), that tech/consulting/other prestigious gigs recruit similarly from the Claremont Colleges, and that Pomona is similar in terms of students receiving competitive fellowships or getting a PhD. Maybe back in 2005 Pomona truly did suffer when it came to pre-professional opportunities, recruiting, and such, but that hasn’t been my personal experience as a 2016 grad. I know Pomona definitely stepped up for funding internships and elevating career services in the four years I was there. I actually landed a couple of interviews in NYC where the employers spoke highly of the school, so it’s on the rise.

75

I think prestige is an important factor. But not right now. If doing well at Pomona can come close to guaranteeing a grad like stanford, oxford, cornell I’m completely fine.

76

@Drawcodawn

Doing well at Pomona or JHU will not guarantee a top grad program. There are other factors at play in terms of getting into grad school. But I can tell you that the number one grad school destination for JHU (outside of JHU) for last year’s graduating class was Harvard. I went to MIT from Hopkins on a full fellowship (amongst the top 10% of entering grad students as did some of my other classmates). Many of my other classmates across the engineering school also won extremely competitive national fellowships (NDSEG, NSFGRFP, Hertz) or individual full school sponsored fellowships at Princeton (Gordon Wu Fellow), Stanford (SGF program) and Harvard. You will have no shortage of opportunities at JHU. I graduated from JHU in 2015, so my experience is also recent.

See below for grad outcomes.

https://studentaffairs.jhu.edu/careers/news/2017-fds/

It also helps that the reputation of JHU in silicon valley is absolutely sterling - it is where you want to be if you want to be in tech. What is not debatable is the fact that more employers will have heard of and recognize JHU here versus Pomona given JHU’s CS program is actually known.

@nostalgicwisdom JHU has had high stats for a while now. It’s just been slowly going up over the years from the above 1360-1530. Business Insider is likely using outdated data.

See here: https://studentaffairs.jhu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2017/01/2014_2015_EnrollmentReport.pdf

Class of 2021 enrolled stats:

https://hub.jhu.edu/2017/08/25/class-of-2021-overview-facts/

JHU’s combined range is 1480 - 1560.

Pomona also self reports the range of SAT scores for the class of 2021 which more or less matches the range above:

https://www.pomona.edu/sites/default/files/pomona-college-admissions-profile.pdf

Verbal - 670 to 750
Math - 660 - 760

There’s a definite discrepancy. You can argue one school is more stats obsessed versus the other, but it could also be JHU is finding students that are more well rounded vs Pomona but with higher scores due to the STEM bent.

77

@Drawcodawn

here are the pomona destinations post graduation by major for the most recent 3 classes.

https://www.pomona.edu/administration/career-development/where-grads-go

78

Based on the above info, this is how Comp Sci graduates fared from Pomona for grad school.

Needless to say, not everyone (or anyone) is going to Harvard or Stanford. There is one CMU, MIT, and Berkeley in the below list, however.

Class of 2017 Computer Science Carnegie Mellon University MS Robotics
Class of 2017 Computer Science Cornell University PhD Computer Science
Class of 2017 Computer Science MIT PhD Computer Science
Class of 2017 Computer Science University of California - San Diego PhD Bioinformatics and Systems Biology
Class of 2017 Computer Science University of Southern California PhD Computer Science
Class of 2015 Computer Science Boston University School of Medicine or University of Alabama School of Medicine MD Medicine
Class of 2015 Computer Science University of California - Berkeley PhD Computer Science
Class of 2014 Computer Science University of California - Los Angeles PhD Statistics
Class of 2014 Computer Science University of Washington PhD Computer Science
Class of 2016 Computer Science & Mathematics Tufts University PhD Computer Science
Class of 2014 Computer Science & Mathematics University of Southern California PhD Computer Science

79

If you can, I would get on linkedin @Drawcodawn and see if you can talk with Jason Yim from JHU. He just graduated with a BS in comp sci from JHU and is going to Google Deepmind as a research engineer which is pretty unheard of as an undergrad.

80

@stevensPR interesting. thank you so much for providing the information. I need to make a decision by today so I don’t have much time left. But I will try to do some more research. Did you start working at google after grad school at MIT? What are the other factors you mentioned, and how did you manage receive the full fellowship?