Pomona or Claremont McKenna

Colleges and Universities A-Z Pomona College
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While, Mudder debates Mudder...
Take Mudd's average science/math/engineering student. Match it up against Pomona's average science/math/engineering student. Mudd's core would prove to be a lethal weapon in any type of general ability competition. 8 Math classes, CS, 2 chem, 3 physics as a common? That is tough to beat.

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<p>Oh there's certainly no debating that our requirements are more rigorous and demanding than Pomona's. But as for the individual classes themselves, I think it can be argued that they do hold a candle in terms of their own difficulty, considered by themselves. If you had to take all those courses at Pomona, I don't think it would be that much easier. It is just that most students who are sane at Pomona wouldn't take that many courses (in fact, I even think Pomona forbids students from taking more than 4 courses a semester).</p>

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Take Mudd's best students (not by grades, though). These students are among the best in their respective fields in the nation. The best Pomona students would be no match... as the best of Caltech and MIT would be a match for them.

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<p>It is interesting to note that, at least last year, Pomona's Putnam team ranked higher than ours, and they had a student get honorable mention while no student of ours got so high. Also, I do know that they have a fair number of Goldwater Scholars and NSF Fellows considering the number of science and math majors they have. I suspect that we still get more major scholarship and award winners in math and science, since we have more science and math majors, but the evidence does not suggest that Pomona students are "no match" for Harvey Mudd students. I think they are a legit match, and they are a legit match for Caltech and MIT students as well. So I'd be careful about automatically making blanket generalizations like that.</p>

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So, no. In a place that only breathes science, math, and engineering, I will not say that Pomona is necessarily at the same level as Mudd. They are great and one of a kind (and have many very great students) but at a place where this is our obsession, I will stand firm in this belief.

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<p>Certainly we offer more courses in math, science, and engineering. And our curriculum is very, very carefully conceived and constructed to give every student an exceptionally well-rounded scientific education. So I think that in and of itself might be the reason that overall for science, Harvey Mudd is better. But some of the individual departments (at least math and chemistry, and definitely biology) are certainly competitive with the individual departments of Mudd. But the difference is that the departments don't have the synergy and teamwork of the Mudd departments.</p>

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<p>im sorry to barge in this conversation, but both seem to have very rigorous courses- is everything very competitive?</p>

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<p>Well I know at HMC at least, the emphasis and attitude is more collaboration than competition. I'd imagine it's the same at Pomona.</p>

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<p>I go to Pomona, and I agree with tiyusufaly that collaboration is encouraged over competition. At Pomona, there are certainly many students that are competitive - but they view it as competing with themselves. There haven't been established curves in any of the courses I've taken, and my experience has been that that encourages people to work together and help each other. It's a very cooperative and congenial environment.</p>

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Pomona is exceptionally strong, but you are taking on a school where all we do, night and day, is science and engineering. There is no way that a non-specialized school can top that.

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Obviously Mudd is the choice for engineering. But for sciences, isn't it true that Pomona offers the broadest program, including some science majors -- like astronomy, geology, and neuroscience -- that aren't even available at Mudd ?</p>

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<p>I'd say that in terms of breadth of offerings, HMC has the upper hand on nearly all fields, but there are a few that Pomona offers more in, including neuroscience and geology, as you said (most of the astronomy courses are actually offered at Mudd). So overall for the sciences, I'd say HMC still offers the broadest and most specialized program when looking at all fields.</p>

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<p>Right. Pomona does offer a more broad program.</p>

<p>However, the same logic can be applied to engineering programs. While Mudd only offers a general engineering degree, many consider it better than most schools that offer a wide variety of degrees and specialization. </p>

<p>More variety does not necessarily equate to better programs.</p>

<p>For instance, if you look at the physics graduates of HMC, you will notice that a fair number of them go into fields that are not exactly mainstream physics. In 2005, I believe 2 of the 3 Caltech PhDs granted (from Mudd) were in the field of geophysics. Many go into fields such as accounting or whatnot. A really good program should form the basis for any possibly related field.</p>

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<p>FROM CMC GRAD:
I suggest that if you want to get a better sense for how Pomona differs from CMC, pick several majors and compare the different degree requirements of each for the SAME major. I believe you will find that CMC's social science departments (econ, literature, history, philosophy, political science, psychology, etc.) are more collaborative than Pomona's and that there are more opportunities for CMC's social science majors to switch among specific social science majors than there are for Pomona's. My sense is that Pomona's social science departments are more independent from one another (and, therefore, more rigid in their prerequisites and degree requirements than CMC's). Of the students I met who were accepted to both CMC and Pomona (with ambitions in the social sciences and humanities), those who knew early on, WITH SPECIFICITY, what they wanted to major in, picked Pomona, and the students who were more undecided about their majors picked CMC.</p>

<p>Also, during my experience at both colleges, I got the impression that Pomona's social science students considered graduate school as a means to pursue a career in "pure academics" more often than CMC's social science students, and Pomona's faculty seemed to encourage/mentor students more overtly than CMC's to entertain the notion that they might one day become university professors. I guess the best way to put it is that--at least in the social sciences--Pomona leans in a "pure science/academic" direction and CMC leans in an "applied science" direction.</p>

<p>With regard to Pomona's NON social science departments--beware. I'll tell you a little tale from my days at the Colleges. Due to a scheduling conflict with one of my elective classes in Music Theory, I took an Astronomy class at Pomona (instead of my home campus of CMC) to meet my GE requirement in Science. At the time, two of my dorm mates were taking Astronomy at CMC. While my CMC dorm mates participated in fun class field trips to observatories to star gaze for their Astronomy class, I was stuck in my room calculating vectors and mapping planetary orbits! Later I found out that Pomona's Astronomy class actually had a handful of students who were aspiring TO BE ASTRONOMERS (and, by the way, they ruined the curve for the rest of us who weren't). I don't mean to insult CMC's non social science departments in any way, but my sense is that Econ / History / Government / Political Science DOMINATE the scene at CMC--and have the most rigorous academic programs (and resources), whereas Pomona's academic programs are more equally rigorous (and financially supported) ACROSS ALL MAJORS.</p>

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<p>It's very unfortunate that people (including current students) try so hard to pigeonhole the Claremont Colleges. It's a very understandable thing to do, but it's unnecessary, and can also be very limiting. The point of the consortium is that the various schools have differing strengths and emphases so that all can benefit from shared facilities, resources, and applicant pools. There are CMC students who turned down Pomona, Scripps students who turned down Mudd, Pitzer physics majors, Mudd dance majors...there is an exception to every single Claremont "rule." Yes, the schools are different, and yes, it's <em>certainly</em> important to know the environments, GEs, and academic emphases of the school(s) in which you're interested, but some of the claims in this thread are just plain misleading (even if they're technically correct). The thread is also giving off the feeling of strong competition/rivalry between the schools, which I very, very rarely actually feel <em>on the campuses.</em> </p>

<p>To the OP: If your daughter is interested in both schools, I'd definitely just say apply to both. If she's very interested in the consortium, I'd also advise looking at a less-selective school like Scripps (where I assure you she'll still be adequately challenged and stimulated). Visit whenever you get a chance, and then, knowing that every program is strong, allow your daughter to figure out the best "fit" among the schools. This is slightly oversimplified advice, but this early in the process, it's all that's necessary!</p>

<p>Good luck :-)</p>

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<p>Fodor's 2007 guide to Southern California refers to the CCs as "Oxford in the Orange Belt." :)</p>

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<p>I applied and was accepted to both CMC and Pomona. Choosing between the two was so stressful. At the time it seemed like the most difficult decision of my life. I knew I wanted to major in politics or PPE, so social sciences was important to me.</p>

<p>I chose Pomona, I'm majoring in politics, and I participated in CMC's internship program in DC for a semester, so I've experienced both schools. Without a doubt, I can say that choosing Pomona was the best decision I've ever made.</p>

<p>I disagree that CMC is stronger in economics and politics because I've taken courses at both Pomona and CMC (including CMC's politics courses in DC, which I and other CMC students do not recommend), and I don't see a substantial difference.</p>

<p>In my opinion, the two main differences are that (1) Pomona is more academic and intellectually focused; CMC is more practical, and (2) CMC students are more competitive than Pomona students. On paper, CMC looked like the place the for me because I would not describe myself as an aspiring academic/professor and I am very competitive with myself. However, the practical things I learned at CMC (in the field of politics) were not anything extraordinary -- in fact, I could find the information at the Pomona Career Development Office or by getting an internship in DC on my own. Also, I agree with a previous poster's comments on competition at both schools: Competition at CMC and Pomona are very different, with CMC students competing against others and Pomona students competing with themselves.</p>

<p>So I suppose it depends on what kind of personality you have and what you want to get out of your education. I don't think you should look at the numbers or which is "best." Quite frankly I don't even know what Pomona ranks in everything compared to CMC, and I don't really care because it doesn't matter if you're not happy. Based on my experiences, I would recommend Pomona over CMC, but it really depends on the person.</p>

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<p>I've never experienced any unhealthy competition at CMC. Most people are ambitious and driven, but don't directly compete with each other. Students rarely ask each other what grades they got on assignments, etc. </p>

<p>I've actually heard people boast that the fact that students don't really compete against each other is one of the better characteristics of CMC. Of course, nothing is 100% true, and maybe your experience was different.</p>

<p>One of the interesting differences I have noticed about CMC and Pomona is that more people at CMC have a clear idea of what they want to do for a career (or at least think they do). You'll find a lot more people who are undecided on a major well into their sophomore and junior years at Pomona. This is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing-- and obviously plenty of people at CMC don't have the faintest idea what they want to do, and plenty of people at Pomona come in their freshmen year with the rest of their lives plotted out. But I guess the fact that more CMC students have specific career goals in mind gives you a bit of the sense of the different cultures at the two schools.</p>

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<p>I'm sure there are a lot of students who don't ask about grades and compete at CMC, but in the politics classes I took, I was constantly asked what I got on my papers, tests, etc and I constantly felt like others were trying to one up me for no reason. However, I took these classes through CMC's Washington internship program, which attracts a certain type of student and is probably not representative of CMC.</p>

<p>I completely agree with theboneyking's last point: My CMC friends have a very clear idea of what kind of career they want to pursue, and it seems like more Pomona students would be undecided.</p>

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I completely agree with theboneyking's last point: My CMC friends have a very clear idea of what kind of career they want to pursue, and it seems like more Pomona students would be undecided.

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<p>I also agree.</p>