Pomona vs. Brown or Dartmouth?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Pomona College
1

<p>After cutting my list from nine down to three schools, this is what I'm looking at:</p>

<p>- Brown University, RI
- Dartmouth College, NH
- Pomona College, CA</p>

<p>None of them gave me any money.</p>

<p>I am female and attend a public high school in Texas with roughly 4,000 students...</p>

<p>Prospective areas of study in alphabetical order:<a href="always%20subject%20to%20change">/u</a>
- Astronomy/Astrophysics
- Biophysics/Computational Biology (something more than regular bio)
- Engineering (Although... if I was dead set on engineering I would probably put Harvey Mudd back on the list; they gave me a $10k scholarship per year)
- Foreign Language (I am leaning towards Chinese, Japanese or French perhaps as a minor)
- Modern Culture and Media at Brown looks interesting
- Neuroscience
- Public Policy/Public Health (probably as a minor)
- Studio Art</p>

<p>I would also like to study abroad either in Europe, Australia, or Asia (thinking about Hong Kong, Japan, or Singapore? Actually I'm open to anywhere).</p>

<p>And I have fuzzy plans for going pre-med...</p>

<p>Brown PRO's:
- Freedom of the new open curriculum. As I was applying to colleges (and thus answering questions like "Describe your passion for learning," etc.) I realized that there was so much knowledge out there anxiously waiting to be contemplated, analyzed, and absorbed. Consequently, Brown's philosophy is really attractive to me as it breeds intellectual exploration and seems to promote creativity.
- Speaking of creativity, Providence is supposedly a great artsy small town/city. The people seem to give off this vibe as well - correct me if I'm wrong. Providence/Brown's campus is also good looking when it's sunny.
- Location/proximity. It's only an hour away from Boston and only a few from New York, both of which are cities where I have friends and family.
- The opportunity to take classes at RISD is a major major plus for me, and this chance would be really hard to pass up.
- Overall I guess the people were friendly and accepting (with exceptions to a few comments I received for asking questions on this forum; however CC admittedly has its own subculture).
- Advising is supposed to be really good. It's there if you look for it.
- After making this list, I guess I can't go into too much depth about the opportunities at Brown. I sort of just assumed they were there, and were good?
- According to a CC user, Brown is strong in neuroscience, MCM, and visual art.</p>

<p>Brown CON's:
- Housing and food? Mediocre/subpar from my experience. I stayed in Keeney, ate at Faunce and the Creperie on Thayer Street. I've read not-so-flattering reviews about Sharpe Refectory.
- Some intro classes can get really big...
- I think Brown only offers four Astronomy classes, and they are all intro-level.
- The weather? Although the winter in Providence should not be as harsh as in Hanover, it is a lot longer and colder than in Texas. Does it rain a lot? I need sunshine - I think it really does affect my overall mood. Seasonal affective disorder.
- Brown may be slightly more impersonal than the other two because of its relatively larger size.
- I heard that the student body was prone to form cliques due to the extreme and vast spectrum of the people who go there.
- Question: What are Brown's strongest undergraduate programs? How do my prospective major choices measure up?</p>

<p>Dartmouth PRO's:
- As far as academics go... Great engineering school, great studio art resources, looks like it has a strong neuroscience and astronomy major. Pretty much I think they are strong in everything I currently think I would major in. This will probably change though, as most people's majors do. The distributive requirements at Dartmouth also do not seem to be "limiting" (which would otherwise defeat the purpose of what I liked about Brown)
- Alumni network seems to be extra strong and helps out a lot. Same with school spirit. It's insanely intense, from what I saw at Dimensions.
- Students were always out on the green, hanging out and being social. (This may have been because it was the first time it was actually green, as opposed to white with snow, in a long time)
- The campus was beautiful when I visited. I can't say that it would be like that all the time, though, and even the people there commented that it was an anomaly that it should be sunny and relatively warm in the middle of April.
- The freshman dorm I stayed in was new and comfortable.
- Great food, and there is a farmer's market nearby.
- Skiing.</p>

<p>Dartmouth CON's:
- Greek scene, partying, and drinking is not really my thing. People say that there is no pressure to drink even at the frat parties, but I don't know how comfortable I would be just even being around so much alcohol. My idea of wind-down time would be like... reading a book, going to poetry reading at the coffee house (an event that was scheduled for Dimensions at the same time as a sorority ice cream social), playing Pictionary, a friendly game of ping pong or Ultimate frisbee, listening to classical music or random intellectual discussions... baking, movie nights, watching the stars. Good sober fun.
- It seems like everyone played varsity sports in high school and are really active in sports and physical activity there. Don't take this the wrong way though - I'm all for healthy exercise and avoiding the freshman 15 - but it feels like this is conducive to a prevalent "jock mentality" on campus.
- "Secret societies" seem to be an excuse for elitism.
- The winter. Sometimes at home I can barely get up in the morning, and it only gets down to about 30-40 F here. If the extremelycoldomg winter at Dartmouth really lasts from November to April, I'd be pretty screwed.
- It's in the middle of nowhere. Hanover, although cute, seems too quiet/unlively. And it is really far from other places, no joke. People say, oh, it's not that bad, but when you think about how you could have been in Boston by now, you might change your mind... Then again there is always **lots to do on campus<a href="this%20is%20a%20pro">/B</a>. Just thought maybe I'd miss out on my favorite bands touring, or cool events that happen only in urban areas.</p>

<p>Pomona PRO's:
- Who can say no to California weather? Also, Pomona has Ski-Beach Day.
- Very big, good biology department. (Stronger than Harvey Mudd - they focus more on Physics/Math/Engineering)
- Known for strong foreign languages, and study abroad to go along with it.
- My tour guide said that the Neuroscience department is small, but has a lot of money (so more money per student). I also met a neuroscience professor, took her class, and she seemed very vibrant, helpful, and loved her job.
- Senior studio art majors get their own private studio space?
- Location **is good. Proximity to Los Angeles (cool stuff happens all the time, like band tours for example) and only a few hours from the Bay Area. Lots of businesses in the area = jobs.
- I believe they are great at **placement in graduate school or medical school. This is only helpful if I actually do continue my education, which of course is not set in stone at the moment. In any case, graduate school (and med school I guess) admissions know Pomona.
- This is a real LAC: advising that's really on the ball, close professor relationships and small seminar-like classes. I sat in on classes at all three schools. Pomona's were the smallest and had the most intimate atmosphere. The other two have a "LAC feel" which I'm sure is just as good but not the real thing, you know?
- "Dorms Like Palaces" lol... and firsthand student testimonials that they are really happy there/the happiest students. (Although I believe Brown also ranks for Happiest Students somewhere. And Dartmouth. Hm ok.)
- They have good food too, including Snack.
- Out of the three, I think Pomona has the best-looking campus.</p>

<p>Pomona CON's:
- Nobody has heard of Pomona. Including employers? This I actually don't know much about. But name recognition plays a part... Pomona is a little more obscure than the other two which happen to be Ivy League schools. When my friends hear which schools I am deciding among, Pomona turns their face into a ? with wrinkles in the forehead. Then again this isn't too important, just funny.
- Unfortunately, Engineering would not be a practical option here at all. If I were to choose Engineering and California, I might as well enroll at Harvey Mudd (and pay less!)
- Small alumni network, because it is a newer school and it does not graduate as many people each year. When compared to the other two, this aspect may hurt a little.
- Small size **of the actual school, in terms of population. It's less than half the size of my high school. Despite it being in the Consortium, I heard that there is not as much interaction with the other colleges as they play it up to be. I also heard that in terms of academics, students from the other schools are more likely to take classes at Pomona than the other way around. This, they say, is due to the fact that Pomona is the largest of the 5 C's. In a nutshell, I'm afraid of feeling **claustrophobic. This information came from current students, and I'm wondering to what extent are the rumors true?
- Pomona doesn't get the whole week off for Thanksgiving :P Yeah, I did a lot of detail-oriented research.</p>

<p>I've been losing sleep over this decision for days, and the clock is ticking like a time bomb. Insight/helpful suggestions please?</p>

2

<p>My boyfriend had to make the exact same choice and decided to come to Pomona. If you PM me, I can give you his e-mail address - I know that he'd be happy to give you some insight.</p>

3

<p>As someone who was closesly considering Dartmouth and Brown but chose Pomona, I think that I can provide some insight. Your pros and cons for each school are very accurate, but I'd like to address some of the cons you mentioned for Pomona. </p>

<p>I completely agree that it isn't as widely recognized at Dartmouth or Brown, but those "in the know" regard it the same as any ivy league institution. Also, the school isn't that new, as it was founded in the late 1800s. </p>

<p>Pomona grads have amazing employment prospects--all of the most influential and prestigous firms come directly to campus to interview. Also, you may not be familiar that Pomona's reputation is much better on the west coast than it is on the the east coast. I believe that people in western states consider it with the same reverance that New Englanders do with Amherst and Williams. Plus, it's really nice when someone from your community is familiar and knows what a fantastic school it is. </p>

<p>Academically, Pomona is the stronges in science of the colleges you're considering. Remember that you can supplement Pomona's science offering's with those at Harvey Mudd! </p>

<p>Also, in response to your concern about Pomona being claustrophobic, remember that the consortium is more socially than academically dynamic. You can expect to make friends from the other 5-Cs regardles of whether you take classes at their schools. I think that there are about 5000-6000 students in the town of Claremont. </p>

<p>I wish you the best of luck in your decision and hope that you choose the school that's the best fit for you, not the one with the most identifiable name.</p>

4

<p>You have some really great choices and it seems like you have really thought a lot about it. I think that academically, you won't make the wrong choice - you'll get a great education at any of the three. Pomona, btw, is pretty strong in all the areas you are interested in (when you consider being able to cross-enroll at Harvey Mudd for astronomy and physics). To be honest, biology majors at Pomona don't tend to cross-enroll at HMC (with the exception of biostats), but math, computer science, physics, and astronomy majors/minors do.</p>

<p>Engineering is still an option if you go to Pomona. You can actually do a 3-2 program with either Caltech or WUSTL (3 years at Pomona, 2 years at the other school) and get a degree from both. Therefore, you wouldn't be closing that door if you decided to come here.</p>

<p>I'd have to agree with darnshorty about Pomona students taking advantage of the consortium socially more than academically. However, just because Pomona students take fewer classes at other campuses than the other Claremont College students, it doesn't mean that they don't at all, and it all really depends on the individual. I know of students who take a lot of classes in the other schools and try to make a point of it, while others don't feel like they need to. If you want to take classes at the other colleges, the opportunities are there and it is easy to do - it's just matters if YOU will take advantage of them (and it sounds like you would).</p>

<p>It is true that Pomona is not going to have the same name recognition as the Ivies. You will probably get that wrinkled forehead even more over the summer (if you choose Pomona), but it's great when people actually do know Pomona because they think of it quite highly. Also big-name employers and graduate/medical schools (the people who matter) will definitely know. I think the lack of name recognition has an effect on the student body though. People aren't coming to Pomona so that they can brag to others - they're not coming to a school just to say they go to an Ivy. It probably explains why people here are more down-to-earth and less competitive with each other.</p>

<p>Socially, you'll find plenty of people at Pomona who like to do the same exact "good sober fun" activities as you do. There is no pressure to drink here, even when you go to a party where most others are drinking. Additionally, the school always has plenty of non-alcoholic activities, and there's a great coffeehouse at Scripps (where you can use your flex) - with two live music performances by students every week, and often open-mics.</p>

<p>To me, it seems like Pomona or Brown fits you better, at least socially (and in terms of proximity to cities and weather). A lot of people apply to both - Dartmouth seems a lot different than the other two. If it helps at all, there were two Brown transfers to Pomona my sophomore year. They both seem to like Pomona a lot more – I think one mentioned the size difference and another about how people kind of keep to their own groups at Brown. Of course, I’m sure there are people that would prefer Brown over Pomona for other reasons too.</p>

<p>By the way, you should go to the "Why Choose Pomona?" thread if you haven't already - it addresses some Pomona pro's that you might want to consider as well.</p>

5

<p>gnatcire - I just want to say you are an incredible ambassador for Pomona and what it stands for. You write so well - distilling ideas into succinct passages - your post here says it all about Pomona, even why students there are probably not as cutthroat as at other schools. I credit your other posts, particular your "Why choose Pomona" thread, with influencing me, and my D, into deciding (yesterday) to choose Pomona over larger, more "well-known" schools. I wish you the best of luck in your post-Pomona life. You deserve it.</p>

6

<p>" I heard that there is not as much interaction with the other colleges as they play it up to be. "</p>

<p>Where did you hear this from?
I don't know how much interaction there is 'played up to be', but there is definitly interaction among the 5-C's. Just yesterday, I ate brunch at Pitzer, spent the afternoon at Scripps doing photoshoots, spent a part of the evening working on a group project at CMC, and then went back to Pomona at night to party with the alumni, before heading back to CMC later for a Pirate Party. There's definitly a ton of intercampus interaction.</p>

7

<p>is the air quality in Pomona an issue for you? if so, Brown sounds like the best fit, based on your analysis above. You have a wide range of interests so that Brown's open curriculum would be a real plus for you.</p>

<p>If the air quality at Pomona is not an issue, then it is a very tough call between Pomona and Brown..</p>

<p>I do not think you'd like Hanover if you are affected by weather, esp being from Texas...</p>

<p>Congrats on having such great options. I'm impressed by your research.</p>

8

<p>About Brown's open curriculum, Pomona's breadth of study requirements are extremely flexible. You only need to take one course in each of the following areas:
**Area 1: Creative Expression<a href="Art%20and%20Art%20History,%20Classics,%20Dance,%20Literatures,%20Media%20Studies,%20Music,%20Theatre">/B</a>
**Area 2: Social Institutions and Human Behavior<a href="Anthropology,%20Economics,%20Environmental%20Analysis,%20International%20Relations,%20Linguistics/Cognitive%20Science,%20Philosophy,%20Politics%20and%20Economics,%20Politics,%20Psychology,%20Public%20Policy%20Analysis,%20Science,%20Technology,%20and%20Society,%20Sociology">/B</a>
**Area 3: History, Values, Ethics and Cultural Studies<a href="American%20Studies,%20Asian%20Studies,%20Asian%20American%20Studies,%20Black%20Studies,%20Chicano/a%20Studies,%20Gender%20&%20Women’s%20Studies,%20History,%20Latin%20American%20Studies,%20Philosophy,%20Religious%20Studies">/B</a>
**Area 4: Physical and Biological Sciences<a href="Astronomy,%20Biology,%20Chemistry,%20Geology,%20Molecular%20Biology,%20Neuroscience,%20Physics">/B</a>
**Area 5: Mathematical Reasoning<a href="Mathematics,%20Computer%20Science,%20Formal%20Logic,%20Statistics">/B</a></p>

<p>These are only 5 courses out of the 32 that you need in order to graduate. I think Pomona's breadth requirements are incredibly reasonable and useful. When I visited Brown, I actually felt uncomfortable with their open curriculum because I felt like if I didn't have at least flexible area requirements that I needed to fulfill, I wouldn't go out and try new areas of study and might miss out on something I would end up really liking. One of the most important merits of a broad liberal arts education is that many students discover new talents and new passions in taking unfamiliar courses - a phenomenon that I think is really facilitated by having a flexible framework of guidelines like Pomona's breadth requirements.</p>

<p>I applaud you for all the research you've done on the three schools and I know that regardless of what your decision will be, it will be informed. You really can't go wrong with any of these schools, but I do hope that you come to Pomona!</p>

9

<p>Air quality at Pomona and the southern california area in general might have been an issue in the past; it's really not now. As seen in this graph <a href="http://www.aqmd.gov/smog/o3hist-trend.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aqmd.gov/smog/o3hist-trend.pdf&lt;/a> , air quality has improved several fold over the past few decades.</p>

10

<p>I feel like it'd be hard to graduate without taking a class in each of those areas anyway</p>