<ul>
<li>Earned a CS degree at a lesser-known school in 2006 with basically As in most courses (including philosophy).</li>
<li>Entered the job market and hated it (was also sick at the time).</li>
<li>Went back in 2008 for a philosophy undergrad part-time at same school.</li>
<li>First two years: straight As.</li>
<li>Have personal problems with a friend - take a year off.</li>
<li>Go back for philosophy and economics in 2010.</li>
<li>Economics grades are poor - the few philosophy grades are As.</li>
<li>Go back to straight philosophy in Winter 2011.</li>
<li>Have to withdraw from only two philosophy courses because grades stink!</li>
<li>However, grades last year in philosophy (2012-2013) are Bs and As.</li>
<li>I scored 610V, 740Q, and 5.5AW on the GREs in 2004; I could score in this range again (or higher, if I put the effort in).</li>
<li>This is my final year. Assume my grades are As, Bs, and Cs in mainly upper year courses.</li>
</ul>
<p>Let's see, what I have going for me is a long track-record of good grades, reasonably good GRE scores, and good philosophy grades throughout. What I would have against me are the poor economics and philosophy grades down the stretch, slightly worse grades in my final year (which would also include more fourth year courses), and education from a lesser-known school... Therefore, I must ask: do I stand a chance of getting into graduate school in philosophy if my grades are somewhat lower again this year? (And what about the chances of an MSc in CS after such a break?) Thank you.</p>
<p>Why would you need a MS in CS? You shouldn’t need one to work in that area and it sounds like you should work in the area again to be sure you want a MS, considering you didn’t like the work the first time.</p>
<p>What would you to do with the Masters(?) in philosophy?</p>
<p>^I have to agree with and extend BrownParent’s comments in that you don’t seem really sure exactly what it is you want to do, and thus what graduate program you want. An MA in philosophy isn’t particularly useful for the job market; it’s useful as a springboard into a philosophy PhD program. One can certainly get a job with an MA in philosophy, but I think people tend to do it because they have to (i.e., they had other goals and changed their minds).</p>
<p>My goals are (eventually) a Ph.D. in either field - so I can teach at the university level. If I can’t obtain a Ph.D., then I would want a master’s degree to enable me to teach part-time and/or at a community college… I have no plans to enter the workforce with either degree…</p>
<p>PhDs are primarily about research, as is “teaching” at the university level. A PhD is a long road to travel, and will be entirely about research. If you don’t love that, then don’t do a PhD.</p>
<p>You’re more certain about wanting to teach/research than you are about which field you want to study? That doesn’t speak well to me.</p>
<p>As for Master’s programs, they’re a lot less competitive as they aren’t usually funded. If you have mostly A’s from your CS degree, that’s probably good. If you want to do a PhD you’ll need research experience. I can’t really speak to philosophy.</p>
<p>Also, it would be helpful if you could give us some actual numbers or ranges.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>At a lesser-ranked Canadian school.</p></li>
<li><p>Overall GPA over two degrees: 3.69.</p></li>
<li><p>GPA over first degree: 3.74.</p></li>
<li><p>CS GPA: 3.81.</p></li>
<li><p>Voluntary Withdrawals in CS degree: 7 out of 46 courses (got sick near end of degree - can get doctor’s note).</p></li>
<li><p>GPA over second degree: 3.37.</p></li>
<li><p>Philosophy GPA: 3.72.</p></li>
<li><p>Voluntary Withdrawals in Philosophy: 3 out of 20 courses (all in bad stretch that I discussed).</p></li>
<li><p>GPA in bad economics/philosophy stretch: 2.78.</p></li>
<li><p>Voluntary Withdrawals in bad economics/philosophy stretch: 4 out of 12 courses.</p></li>
<li><p>GRE scores in 2004: 610V, 740Q, 5.5AW (have to retake; could easily score in this range again).</p></li>
</ul>
<p>I am only considering a CS master’s in case I have another bad stretch of grades this year and this jeopardizes my chances at a philosophy MA (or PhD). In other words, I would rather work in academia at my second choice subject than go out into the workforce with either degree…</p>
<p>Also, I’ve noticed something “snide” about some of the responses… Am I misinterpreting the people here, because of the lack of face-to-face communication or is this a touchy subject for some people? And if it is, can you explain why? You’re free to help, but my choices do not reflect on your situation at all, so they should not be particularly important to you… OTOH, if I’m misinterpreting you, I apologize…</p>
<p>In other words, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t help. What I am saying is that responding should be about as personal to you as punching the buttons on a calculator or reciting the letters of the alphabet, because, as I said, it’s my life and doesn’t reflect on you at all…</p>
<p>I’m not trying to be snide, and I don’t think anyone is reacting emotionally or personally. However, I am trying to be realistic for you. One thing PhD admissions committees look for is conviction and certainty that this is what you really want to be doing. This is because a PhD is a long process and requires a lot of determination and perseverance. With only your couple of posts to go on, you come across as not having that certainty. Either an admissions committee will pick up on that and it will damage your chances, or they won’t but you’ll have a miserable time in the program. I bring this up not to tell you what to do, but to make you aware of the potential problem. If you can resolve that indecision, then fine.</p>
<p>Your CS grades seem quite good. I don’t know how much the ranking of your school matters; some departments seem to care more than others. To me the glaring lack is research experience. If you’re going for a Master’s, then that’s a lot less of an issue, and if you want to go on to a PhD, the Master’s is your chance to get research experience.</p>
<p>My ability to comment on Philosophy is very limited. Your grades there are not as strong, and so the importance of other factors are even higher. I’m not sure what the equivalents of “research experience” in Philosophy would be, other than perhaps being a research assistant for a professor. Again, a Master’s is a chance to fill in some of those gaps, but even more than CS, for Philosophy you’ll probably be paying for it yourself.</p>
<p>If Philosophy is your first choice, then focus on that. You certainly don’t have to justify your goals or desires to strangers on the Internet, but you will have to do so to admissions committees, so you might as well practice. Your academic record speaks to some indecision, as do your posts here, and that’s what people are picking up on. Certainly you can work with that, but you will need to address it if you pursue this.</p>
<p>Finally, all of these considerations scale with the tier of school you apply to.</p>
<p>CanisNebula: thanks for the help. It is much appreciated. I guess you were just being candid. In any event, I was searching through older posts in this forum, and I came across a link to an article that discussed going for an MA in philosophy - as opposed to a PhD - in the Philosophical Gourmet Report: [The</a> Philosophical Gourmet Report 2011 :: MA Programs in Philosophy](<a href=“http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/maprog.asp]The”>http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/maprog.asp). I definitely fit one of the categories that it suggests should consider an MA; I am interested in a PhD, but come from a less-reputable school, and have a solid grounding in philosophy. They suggested several departments that have strong MA programs - Tufts being the most exclusive - but also Arizona State University, Brandeis University , Georgia State University, Northern Illinois University, University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, Virginia Poytechnic Institute & State University, University of Houston; University of Missouri, St. Louis, San Francisco State University, California State University, Los Angeles, Colorado State University, Ohio University, Texas Tech University, and Western Michigan University (Canadian universities are also an option). Also, a possibility would be a B.Phil at Oxford - a challenging option that could be chosen as a reach school. I also have an idea of the “scaling factor” involved - the more exclusive schools might be a problem, but most of the schools are not as competitive, and, therefore, a decent possibility. One school I would give special consideration to is WMU, because it is close to home (and also Wayne State, for the same reason). I would have to think about it further, but, after considering your advice and reading that article, I am definitely thinking of pursuing an MA first. The article also says that many PhD programs have decent terminal MA degrees; can you think of anywhere else I might want to consider? And, with respect to funding, I have some options for work that I could use to raise money for the MA (if that becomes a problem). Also, do you know anything about the competitiveness of any of these programs?</p>
<p>Also, 1) “WMU” = “Western Michigan University”, and 2) my questions in the last post are not just aimed at CanisNebula; if anyone else has an answer, it would be helpful…</p>
<p>I would recommend that you talk with your philosophy professors at your current institution. They should be able to help you think about which graduate institutions to consider, and also what you can do to make yourself a more competitive candidate - writing a senior thesis, perhaps. The one thing you will most need in applying to any graduate school is recommendations from your professors, so think about who you want to approach to write those letters.</p>
<p>I’ll also echo the thoughts about developing a strong sense of purpose in your studies which you can clearly explain. Your application letter is not called a “Statement of Purpose” by accident. Graduate admissions committees will want to know why you want to pursue graduate-level education and what you plan to do with your degree after graduating. The more clearly and thoughtfully that purpose is explicated, the more likely the committee members are to view you as a dedicated student who will invest in the program and has the perseverance necessary to earn a graduate degree.</p>
<p>Make no mistake, graduate school is hard and even great students can hit a program-ending wall very quickly. I am not a great student, just an above-average one, and I nearly flunked out of my master’s program after the first semester — because I did not take my responsibilities in research and classwork seriously enough. It was a painful, embarrassing and expensive lesson in what it takes to be a graduate student. But I got over it and finished my degree on time, because I knew exactly why I wanted the degree and how it would benefit me on a personal and professional level.</p>