<p>My nephew, who lives in a mid-Atlantic state and goes to a good suburban high school, is applying to colleges next year. He's got excellent scores (ACT 35) and a pretty decent high school record. He is going to apply to top-tier schools like Stanford and Caltech. Rather than say to him, "Kid, with only four APs even though your school offers 19, with no academic ECs even though your school has a robotics team and math/physics olympiad teams, instead of applying to Caltech you might as well set fire to $75. You say you want to study Computer Science and you haven't even learned to program yet? Come on," I want to adopt a positive attitude and suggest schools that would be happy to have a kid like him.</p>
<p>I've suggested visiting Santa Clara when he comes out to see Stanford, and Harvey Mudd when he visits Caltech. What are some Eastern engineering/CS schools that would be good targets/safeties for a STEM-minded kid? Bonus points for schools that offer $$ to high-scores kids?</p>
<p>It's hard to watch this family. They're making all the classic mistakes we see on CC. They overvalue good scores over other attributes; they seem to believe that probability of admission to one top tier school is independent of prob of admission to another ("Well, if I just apply to a lot of them..."); my brother says he's not going to worry about money now because if his son gets admitted "we'll make it work;" they're spending too much time on reaches and not enough time on matches, let alone safeties. It's like a preview to all the sad threads we see here in April.</p>
<p>If finances are not a huge consideration he should try Michigan. They are very much GPA driven, with test scores second. They look at unweighted GPAs and ECs are down the list if you look at the common data set.</p>
<p>On the MIT board, there is a thread for match schools. It lists all the usual suspects. </p>
<p>I wanted my son to put U Miami on his list, because it would be free to him as in-state and high scores. They are generous with merit based on scores. I will need more time to take a long back. When at CMU for accepted students’ weekend, the question heard often was, “I was accepted into science or engineering school, how hard to transfer into College of CS?” No mention of merit $, but internships paid very well.</p>
<p>My top 1% kid got waitlisted at Harvey Mudd, don’t fool yourself into thinking he’ll get in. It’s almost as difficult as Caltech and MIT, you also have to buy into their notion that they are an LAC not an engineering school. I wonder if he could backdoor into it through one of the other Claremont colleges? RPI and WPI will be reachy matches. Case Western has an acceptance rate over 50% so that looks good. Rose Hulman is even higher at about 62%.</p>
<p>I think Mudd’s overall admit rate was 13% this year, and as usual was lower for male students than female applicants (so many more males apply). It is nobody’s match or safety.</p>
<p>It’s sometimes argued that Illinois is better for CS. Not sure what they look at when appraising an application. Purdue, Ohio State, and what about CalPoly in Cali? This is a tough one, I don’t usually think of mid-atlantic when I think about computer engineering or computer science. Rose-Hulman is an outlier that might work, in my former company the recruiters were always looking for CS or computer engineering kids and it was tough to get the Cali kids to come to the midwest even to a Fortune 50 company… but we had quite a few Rose-Hulman alum. </p>
<p>Several of the mid-Atlantic states have very respectable state flagships (yes, even NJ); some have other state universities (e.g. VT, NCSU) that are also quite respectable. So if they are affordable (particularly the in-state ones, of course, although VT and NCSU are not super-expensive even for out-of-state students), perhaps they can go onto the application list.</p>
<p>Other lower cost schools with respectable CS include Minnesota, Stony Brook, Cal Poly SLO.</p>
<p>The naivete with respect to costs looks like a (financial) shut out waiting to happen. The student should look through the large merit scholarship sticky threads at the top of the financial aid and scholarships forum, and include at least one of the automatic ones for a safety, if he qualifies, in case the “we’ll make it work” does not actually work out in April.</p>
<p>If you can get the parents to run the net price calculators on school web sites, that may wake them up to the reality of college costs.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the suggestions. Keep 'em coming!</p>
<p>He won’t consider his state flagship. </p>
<p>I know that Harvey Mudd is not a shoo-in by any stretch of the imagination, but at least it’s a reasonable reach, unlike Stanford and Caltech.</p>
<p>I like the suggestions of Rose-Hulman and Case. And Illinois and Purdue as well. But I think the midwest might be a tough sell. Are there relevant Pennsylvania schools?</p>
<p>I like Cal Poly, but for an east coast kid it’s hard to get to. You have to fly all the way across the country, and then it’s a three hour drive. That’s a lot of traveling.</p>
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I think it’s a ridiculous amount of borrowing waiting to happen.</p>
<p>Not Eastern, but he could get very generous merit aid at UT Dallas-- an up-and-coming school with an excellent reputation in CS. With a 35 ACT and decent GPA, he should get full tuition and partial room/board coverage.</p>
<p>Consider Wisconsin, could be easier to get into than Michigan and has a top tier comp sci dept… Son was an Honors math major with some comp sci courses then added the comp sci major. He got a software developer job after college (instead of math grad school) with minimal comp sci programming skills- the company valued his math/thinking skills. He knew he was weak in programming- and learned his in college, not HS. He had the 35 ACT (and 2400 SAT) with nearly all A’s, many AP’s and ECs in HS. </p>
<p>This student may not be a sure admit but could get into Wisconsin. Students get admitted to the whole university at UW, regardless of proposed major. His lack of HS programming would not affect that. His gpa and ECs could affect his chances as some students with high test scores but lesser grades have not shown they will do the work necessary to succeed.</p>
<p>Other public flagships are less costly to OOS students. UW doesn’t give merit aid like some do- they don’t need to to attract top students.</p>
<p>Good luck to the relatives. they’re in for a harsh reality check.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to say that his lack of high school programming will hurt him at all schools. But I’d guess it would hurt him at Caltech, where they like students who go after what they say they’re interested in. My impression is that Caltech expects that its applicants find high school STEM classes easy and seek enrichment in math contests, scientific research, robotics, programming or something. I get the impression their attitude is, If you’re interested in X, why aren’t you doing it?</p>
<p>If you can get them to get the college cost reality check (net price calculators and the like) before applications are due, that will be preferable to him getting financially shut out in April, or burdening himself with six figure loans co-signed by his parents.</p>
<p>You’re right, ucbalumnus. I’m working on getting them to look at cost. I might be able to use the tactic that he should be looking at cost for the colleges that are not top tier, but his parents can say hang the cost for Stanford. 'Cause I don’t think they’re going to be facing the problem of paying for Stanford anyway, but they might realistically be facing the problem of paying for Wisconsin or RPI or whatever.</p>