“Check out the common data set that each school has-it is an excellent way to see percentages of students actually admitted and what their stats are.”
Just be sure to look at 50th percentile and up if you’re unhooked.
I think I was kind of hoping that those stats, being averages, might not apply to my daughter’s case. Since she goes to a competitive school, I was hoping that a 3.75 from there might be the equivalent of a 4.0 from a less reputable school.
One other thing I didn’t mention is that her school doesn’t give different weight to AP classes. If they did count an A in an AP class as a 5 instead of a 4, her GPA would be 3.85. I’m not sure if pretty much everyone does it that way now or if AP classes do give a boost to people’s GPAs.
Why are you taking her to look at schools so early? Her Junior year grades will be instrumental in determining where she is likely to be admitted.
@dla26 I also have a rising junior. Check out the thread for Parents of the High School Class of 2019: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/class-20xx-community/1732893-parents-of-the-hs-class-of-2019-p201.html. We have a wide variety of experiences/expectations/stats on the thread. Friendly atmosphere.
Sorry - I thought that a discussion I posted on Friday never got listed so I reposted it before realizing that it was, in fact, already up!
I do think if the school is viewed as very competitive by the college, then her gpa will be acknowledged as ‘better’ than a higher gpa from a less rigorous high school. Not all A’s are created equal!
My D just graduated from Scripps…you’d be surprised how many of the students were not considering an all-women’s college before (including my own D).
Hi again, I guess it depends on the school but my son’s school gives unweighted averages and UW 3.7 is a large amount of kids in his class. Once you weight their averages (happens senior year to get top two), most of the AP kids (including him) go to a 4.0 but that isn’t what gets submitted to the colleges in their case.
To the OP:
I will reiterate what other posters have said and add a few notes based on my own experience. The good news is that you’ve come to the right place. I was in your position 8 years ago. I had a general sense that my children were “good” students and I was relatively naive about the admissions process. But, I was ready to put in the “work” of getting myself informed to help my first child with the application process.
For you and your D I would advise:
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Have CC become your second home. When you have a minute, pick a random forum and read the threads. Soon you’ll become familiar with the jargon and you’ll be amazed at the wealth of information you will acquire
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Understand the importance of standardized testing. It is not too late to have your D enter serious and intense SAT and ACT review class. This is very student dependent. Some teenagers are very self-motivated and can do an online review. Some need to have a tutor weekly for one-on-one intensity. Your D will know her study habits best.
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I didn’t read through all the posts, is your daughter an URM? If not, there is a serious over-supply of women at most LAC and the admissions standards are higher.
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Take a close look now at your financial status. Not only how it relates to your D but other children you might have. Read the Financial Aid forums diligently if that is an issue for you. You will find many parents advising their children early on - “we have this much money to spend per year” - your college must realistically fall within those guidelines. No visiting or heaven-forbid applying to colleges that are never going to work. I agree with other posters who warn against telling their children that if they get into a better school, parents will find a way to pay for it. No - don’t do it.
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Your daughter’s time at GU this summer will certainly be fun for her - but will not make much of a difference at application time. To GU - or any other college.
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As you’ll find mentioned on this site everywhere - the college admissions process is more competitive than you may realize. Take a clear hard look at where your daughter’s stats place here and encourage her to apply to colleges where her stats place her at at least the 50 % in admissions. She’ll also have what is known as “reach” schools as she should have “safeties” and perhaps more importantly “financial safeties”
Good luck. Very exciting time for your D.
agree with all posted above
in addition
- Many posters asked OP, but you didn't mention if she was diverse in any way including possibly geographic diversity in addition to whether she is Hispanic ,AA, native American , first generation or a recruitable athlete. This is an important question . if the answer is no to all the above (which was our case) than you need to be realistic about chances of getting into ivies, top LAC). Your daughter sounds amazing but there is so many amazing near perfect kids(perfect stand testing, amazing extracurriculars/founders and presidents of clubs and near perfect GPA) and with admission rates below 10 percent at some of the schools you mentioned, the GC is being kind to let you know to have safeties.
- standardized test is very important. best time to study is over the summer between soph and junior year as Junior year is so busy with AP's/rigorous courseload so difficult to find time to study for SAT/ACT. also PSAT to qualify for national merit is in the fall of junior yr so use this summer wisely. If she is going to self study , use the real material put out by the makers of the ACT/SAT don't buy "imposters" but the real material by the test makers. The SAT's has a book of REAL past 8 tests based on the NEW SAT. avoid Kaplan, Princeton, others and buy the books or use online material from the makers of the test. you can go onto the college board website to find the SAT prep material. Another tip if you find a "rocking HS student or college student " who did amazing on the SAT. (most school post their national merit finalist so easy to find out who these kids are). for about 20-25 hr , your daughter could have a 1 on 1 tutor to supplement her independent studying. private tutors can cost over 100 hr so finding a "rocking student" to help her can be great way to be cost effective and supplement independent studying.
- the math thing sounds weird. if she was qualified to be in precalculus soph. year why didn't they allow her in? did her algebra 2 teacher recommend algebra 3 ? seems weird that they wouldn't let a student take a course they were prepared for particularly in math that has a logical sequence. I do think its a mistake to take AP stat and not precalculus(math analysis) junior year. most competitive schools want to see calculus by senior year and know Stat is not as hard as calculus. If she is interested in AP stat than double up with taking it as an elective junior or senior year, (my son did this) but not in place of math analysis junior year and calculus senior year. If her HS offers calculus and she only completes math analysis by senior year, it will be a red flag for selective colleges. I know that sounds harsh but it is true.
- Naviance is a great tool. ask your GC if you have it. most schools now have it. Its a good predictor of college outcomes, not perfect but good way to start. also its a resource to find schools, scholarships ,etc.
- Look at several post on CC about alternatives to Pomona. some great post about schools a little more doable to get in for a student who is looking for a LAC.
- agree about summer programs. If it cost than it will not help you into school. You mentioned Georgetown summer program. Other summer programs similar at all the ivies/top schools including Yale and brown summer programs. they are money makers for the schools and cost upwards of 3-6 K. Many many kids get into those summer programs even if they say selective and still get rejected from the college. Colleges realize that the cost of these programs are thousands, so it is not as selective as many believe. Not to say you can't have an amazing experience, grow up, have an interesting experience living on college campuses, meet other interesting students from across the country, but these summer programs are for those that can afford to go and colleges know this. It will not help you into college. This is similar for the study abroad programs or social action programs in third world countries that cost thousands. If you are serious about summer programs that can help you get into selective schools look at programs like Telluride , etc. Many many post on CC about the selective FREE summer programs. Most of these selective FREE summer programs are for rising seniors. My son did Boys state, Williams free math camp, and the Notre Dame leadership summer programs all free, selective and in the end I believe might have helped him into some schools.
- Not sure what to say about the GC. Most are giving advice based on years of experience of seeing kids apply and outcomes so I wouldn't ignore her GC but nothing wrong to shoot for the stars as long as she has plenty of safeties on list, be realistic using tools like naviance . My S's GC was also pessimistic about his chances of getting into top schools. His words "shocked" at my Sons results. I am glad we didnt completely listen to the GC and rule out top LAC . He wouldn't be at Pomona today if we listened to GC. If you can have at least One Early action safety school (DOESNT rule you out of applying to others schools including ED as it is not binding), that can make for a less stressful senior year knowing you are into some schools early and not have to sweat it out till march waiting on selective schools.
@momof2eagles just FYI Brown’s summer program has extremely generous need-based financial aid, basically up to COA. And while that program is not the admissions eye-grabber that TASP and other very selective free programs would be, it can be part of that student’s “story”, if it aligns with interests pursued in school, when at home, etc.
I only mention it because the popular perception is that the programs are all too expensive for low income kids to attend and just one or two like Brown’s are not. They can be a real motivator to a low income kid curious about selective colleges that they otherwise wouldn’t really be exposed to. There are also scholarship programs that cover many of them - Questbridge prep scholars, Joyce Ivy Foundation, for instance.
Lots of great advice above. We just completed this process, and our DS is off to Williams in August (top swimmer, so he got a little boost). Sounds like your daughter’s grades are perfectly fine — in range. As others have noted, the test scores will be vital. A 1400 on the PSAT is very good, so that’s a positive sign. She should, as you’re suggesting, push hard with the test prep. She’ll need a 1400+ to be competitive at the very top schools. Then treat WASP as reaches but she’d be within range of the next group – Middlebury, Bowdoin, Carleton, Grinnell, Macalester, etc. And by “within range,” I mean she’d apply to a bunch and get into a few. Good luck and, as others have suggested, try to make the process fun. It definitely was for us.
Agree with @OHMomof2 however op did not mention they were in those categories so giving advice assuming they are paying full price that those programs while interesting would not help into college. Lots of the selective free summer programs also like diversity first generation and low income students .
Understood @momof2eagles - I think about searches by families in the future when I post on CC in general. Every post here is not only google-able but near the top of results, often.
<<my daughter="" is="" interested="" in="" going="" to="" a="" small="" liberal="" arts="" college.="" her="" counselor="" often="" encourages="" aim="" sights="" lower="" so="" as="" avoid="" disappointment,="" but="" i="" personally="" think="" she="" may="" have="" shot="" at="" the="" amhersts="" and="" williams="" of="" world.="" (or="" least="" pomonas.)="">>
I couldn’t read any further than this. Pomona had a single digit 8 - 9 % admit rate the last two years running. Williams is still in the double digits. Make no mistake, Pomona, ranked #1 by Forbes in 2015/2016 takes some chops getting into.
Thanks, everyone, for all of the wonderful insights. I’m still getting used to how this site works, and it seems like there were a few early posts that didn’t show up for me until today. A couple comments:
- Poor choice of words on my part saying "at least" the Pomonas. I was mostly basing that on the US News & World Report rankings. I do get that Pomona is an amazing school, and now I realize that it's actually probably even harder to get into than Williams and Amherst.
- People have asked about whether she's an URM. She is half Japanese/half Caucasian. (Her mother is a Japanese citizen. We moved together to the US when she was about 25.) We speak both Japanese and English at home, but recently it's more that my wife speaks to everyone in Japanese and we respond in English, because we're lazy. :) Also, she is most certainly not an athlete. If there was a word for the opposite of an athlete, that'd be her. :)
- I'm not sure if this is a "hook" but my D was born with hydrocephalus and at one point in middle school she needed a couple emergency brain surgeries and had a 6-month recovery period when she couldn't walk and just vomited non-stop. I don't know if it's the kind of thing to talk about in an essay, but it was a very hard time for her in an otherwise very typical upper-middle class suburban upbringing.
- People have asked about affordability. Fortunately or un-, my income last year was just enough that calculators I found online said that our EFC is greater than pretty much every college out there. I'm unfortunately not wealthy enough to consider 4 years of tuition just a drop in the bucket, but I do expect I'll wind up paying full tuition out of pocket. (After 2 kids, it will close to wipe out our non-retirement savings, and I'm planning on rebuilding all of that up for retirement after college is done and paid for.) I definitely want to enable both of my kids to graduate from college debt free. It's hard enough to get started as an adult. I don't want them to be digging themselves out of a hole right away.
- My D was planning on taking an online SAT prep course at home this summer. I'm debating whether to hire a tutor or just tutor her myself. Not to brag, but I think I'm actually pretty good at that kind of thing (I got a 740 on my GMAT, though that was 20 years ago!) and help her with school stuff all the time. That said, I would like to consider hiring a tutor who can advise her on SAT-specific strategies. For example, I remember when I took the SATs, the Princeton Review book I read made a good observation that the first 1/3 of questions in a section were easy, the next third medium, and the last third hard - so if you need to guess on one of the later questions, the obvious-looking answer might be a plant to get people to guess the wrong thing. Those sort of insights.
i don’t think Japanese is a minority in the college admissions process. just saying. i actually think you are an ORM(over represented minority ) being asian and it might be harder to get in(need higher stats). Many threads on CC about this.
Your daughter sounds awesome and yes resilient with having overcome a serious medical condition. If she feels able to, writing about this in her common ap essay could help to “tell her story” but i want to be honest many kids with resilient stories so its all how she writes about it . My son also had "a medical condition back story " . he wrote about this in his common ap essay. If you want you can personal message me and i can tell you how to read his story/essay.
as far as FA-not sure if your 2 kids overlap in college. we were not eligible for FA with one kid in college but the 2 yrs my kids overlapped we were. so recalculate when your second kid is in college and you might be surprised.
i would avoid being your D’s tutor. Definitely a supporter, encourager, helper in giving her a quite space and tools to study as well as help setting schedules/timelines to study, and yes at times being a “nag” , but tutor sometimes gets “sticky” with your own children. i stick by my original advice to look for a “rocking” HS senior, college student who did awesome on standardized testing and use them in addition to a formal course/self studying . A student who got near perfect on SAT/ACT and perhaps themselves did a formal course will know all the “tricks of the trade” and will be much more “in the know” about the test than a parent who took the test 20 some yrs ago. You mention princeton review book, again i would stick with the book made by the makers of the SAT /or ACT and don’t use “imposters”.
as far as looking at rankings US news reports, still unclear why you would think easier to get into pomona. for US news rankings its number #7 in 2016 and in 2015 was tied for number 4 with swarthmore , middlebury and bowdoin . It was number 1 in forbes in 2015 and number 7 in forbes in 2016 (only LAC above it was williams). i believe it had the lowest percent admit rate out of the top LAC.
you also mention your wife is Japanese and mentioned in earlier post that your D took AP japanese and now will no longer be taking a language in HS. I would research more about this and talk with GC, but guessing that colleges might want to see your D take a second language and not stop languages in 11th and 12th grade . Plenty of kids take Ap languages in their parents language but also understand colleges will want them to have another language.
However, this kid is interested in liberal arts colleges, many of which look for, and actively recruit, Asian students.
Amherst includes Asian students in its diversity fly-in program, DIVOH.
it also has a strong connection to Japan that might make this candidate especially interesting to them: https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/departments/asian/japanese_language/amherstandjapan/node/8299
PS: you can tutor your kid for the ACT/SAT. I did for my kids, in that I got the books (from the library), and printed out a ton of tips I found here (ziggi) and on the net in general with strategies for educated guessing, skimming for speed, reading ACT science charts/graphs and so on. My kid went up 6 ACT points and we didn’t spend a ton of time on it together, really just an hour or so going over the tips with me and then she took some practice tests on her own.