Pre med advice- Traditional route, advice re: preparation

I don’t have much to add to all the great advice on here, but I’ll add the University of Rochester’s med school profile for 2025. Other years can be googled and one can easily see it’s a template. They tend to look for the same things year after year. I doubt they’re alone in what they look for.

With the competition to get into med school, the last thing you want is for your application to meet the minimum requirements or even to be average. I tell students to be someone their med school could write about.

I copied some excerpts - there’s more in the link, plus google other years.

This year we had approximately 5900 applications from AMCAS that we reviewed. Of the completed applications, 3000 were from female applicants and 2800 were from male applicants, 21 were from self-disclosed, trans or non-conforming gender applicants. Our admissions committee interviewed 711 of these applications, for 105 places in your class. Your class includes 59 women, and 44 men and 2 non-binary students. The average age of your class is 23.67 years and 43% of your class is 24 years old or older. And while age is totally irrelevant to your progress and potential, the spread in years is from 21 to 32.

About 29% of you majored in Biology or some variation of that major, 15 of you majored in Neurosciences, six each majored in Biochemistry, Molecular Biology, the Engineering fields and Psychology, five each majored in Chemistry, four in Public or Global Health. Three majored in Anthropology. Two each majored in History, Mathematics, Microbiology, Music and 1 each majored in Art History, Business, Comparative Literature, Comp Sci, Econ, Environmental Sciences, Epidemiology, Foreign Languages, Genetics, Human Development, Kinesiology, Physiology, Polisci, and the Visual Sciences. Some of you have Master’s including African Studies, Biomedical Sciences, Control of Infectious Diseases, Music, Psychology, Science, Journalism, Security Studies, Social Epidemiology, and Statistics. One of you is a trained dentist.

Most of you graduated with Latin Honors, including a large number who were Summa or Magna Cum Laude. Additionally, many of your class graduated Phi Beta Kappa, Phi Kappa Phi, Tau Beta Pi and or with other departmental, and university or national honors society and recognitions. These awards show that you’ve collectively had an incredible academic prowess and we are humbled before your accomplishments. But in addition to these well-known awards, we recognize that you have had even more profound accomplishments, many that don’t come with certificates or applause, but still impacted the lives of communities, organizations and people all around you. Congratulations.

Your desire to deeply and meaningfully work in marginalized communities has led you to work in AmeriCorps, Teach for America and as Jesuit Service Corp members. More than 50% of you worked or learned in an overseas setting. From Sudan to Taipei, Japan to Bangalore, Greece to Nicaragua you have been impacted by what life looks like outside the confines of your hometowns and you are wiser for it. The University of Rochester celebrates your interest in a wide lens of experiences and we hope an equal or greater number of you continue your global reach in this phase of your transformation.

In order to be accepted to the University of Rochester, it is a must that you have worked outside your comfort zone; your class has shown heart and passion surpassing the average applicant. Many of you have worked with agencies in our inner cities, refugee camps and prisons, reaching out to those who suffer the greatest disparities in health care in our world. All of you have volunteered in various outreach opportunities, alternative summer breaks, health care brigades and other college or religious sponsored organizations and have made an impact on the health and wellness of communities. If there is a hospital clinic or possibility to help someone, someone in this room has volunteered in that opportunity and more importantly, have LOVED working within it. The Class of 2025 you have reached out to those people in need, regardless of pandemics, lock-downs, distance or personal hardship encountered.

You have really unique interests and accomplishments that display heart and soul to this class. To name just a few: you have built houses in Nicaragua, worked in reforming criminal justice systems, accompanied those with terminal illness to their deaths, joined teams for disaster relief, and supported housing insecurity and homelessness. You have worked to distribute Covid 19 vaccines at your own peril, been asylum advocates, led clinics such as Planned Parenthood and served ourLGBTQ community. You have served communities not only in English, but Spanish, Chinese and Arabic. I am particularly proud of the overwhelming number of people concerned about the marginalized in their communities, combatting racism, sexism, misogynies, xenophobia, ableism and ageism; populations easily ignored. This is a class overflowing with advocates and advocacy – the number of people who have worked in community or as community organizers, in organized politics or on committees to foster change is simply breathtaking. From intimate partner violence, rape, suicide prevention, deportation and the bias against marginalized populations, you are there for your communities twenty-four seven. Your graciousness and innovative spirt is the essence of our progress. The University of Rochester is a fertile ground for your ideas to take root, please don’t lose the opportunity to harness the power of your collective classes’ talents and skills to be innovators and collective sparks.

Oh… and the class of 2025’s your previous lives are fascinating. Many of you are EMT trained, but you have also been NIH clinical research coordinators, admissions officers, journalists, therapists, and case managers. Most of you have had jobs and know the value of clocking in and clocking out, living paycheck to paycheck as office workers, baristas, research coordinators, food service workers, and nannies.

Impressively, 44 of you have spent greater than a 1000 hours or more in your research endeavor. Most of you have done your work in the natural sciences but also in anthropology, humanities, archeology, and history. Helping us earn our name the liberal arts school of medicine. You have not only engaged in clinical, lab and bench work, but also in qualitative work. Your interest in science is vast, ranging from meditation research to planetary health, archeology to how mRNA of vaccines affect populations, STI research in Fijians to cell signaling; from molecular mechanisms of single organisms to research in diseases that affect vast numbers of people such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. You have spanned the range from micro to macro inquiry. Regardless of the type of research, the universal theme in your class is quality work.

Feel free to read the link for the rest and parts I skipped. I tried to focus on what’s been discussed here.

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Wow! Great info- pretty what every med school would look for …
Not sure though what percentage of their pre meds actually get into a med school?

View these with caution. These reported %ages aren’t always a good indicator of anything.

@WayOutWestMom can explain why these %ages aren’t always good info.

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The denominator (number of pre-meds) can mean many different things. If it means the number of frosh intending pre-med, that can be hard to count, since the college may not be tracking frosh students’ pre-med intentions, or how serious a frosh considering pre-med actually is about it.

If it means the number of those who actually applied to medical school, that can be affected by how pre-med advising is done at the college. If the college has a pre-med committee, such a pre-med committee typically advises pre-meds with worse chance of admission that it is not worth spending a lot of time and money applying. So, at a college with a pre-med committee, the percentage of medical school admits to applicants is often mostly reflective of how high a threshold the pre-med committee has to encourage a pre-med to apply. I.e. if the admission rate is 90%, the pre-med committee probably discourages all but the best pre-meds from applying, but if the admission rate is around 40% (similar to overall medical school admission rate), the pre-med committee probably encourages all pre-meds to apply.

What may be useful would be for colleges to publish a college-specific grid like this one (for all US MD medical school applicants and matriculants). But few colleges actually do.

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This is rarely (never?) an accurate answer. Many schools won’t support an applicant they aren’t pretty sure will make it, so cook their numbers that way (as mentioned before). Some schools count everyone who does anything medical related as being successful, even if the school is in the Caribbean so cook their numbers that way.

Then too, each class and individual is different. Some years it could be 80% and other years 20% if on an even keel.

In the end, it’s not the school that gets a student into med school - it’s the student. Stay informed. Stay active. Study hard for undergrad and the MCAT. Get apps in quickly once the opening starts (this means preparing ahead of time). And prayer probably doesn’t hurt.

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Agree, in the end it is the student and how well they prepare…I have heard students from low ranked universities get into fairly good med schools…

Yeah I agree, these numbers are probably just inflated. we can never be sure of the denominator…l

Two other ways undergrads cook their success rate numbers is by counting alumni applicants who have been out of undergrad for up to 5 years post graduation or even longer, and by counting alumni who have done post-bacc coursework at another college after graduating (either for GPA improvement or for those career changers who were never premeds during their original undergrad).

There are lots of sneaky ways colleges manipulate their numbers to make themselves look better to prospective students. So take any percentages that an undergrad touts with a truckload of salt.

The college one attends does not confer some magical qualification for med school admission. Successful med school applicants come from just about any kind of college you can think of, including some who do their undergraduate studies in another country.

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I dont believe there is any school out there which says we had 500 students start our school with the intent to do medicine but we only had 100 actually apply when the time came because that is what most parents look for and that info is never going to be available.

Most school track only who applied and got in, and include older graduates to inflate the results.

In my humble opinion, smaller schools offer better chances of getting into medical schools because not too many are competing. Large universities have large numbers of applicants and matriculants but not necessarily large percentages.

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Med schools are reasonably ‘flat’ in terms of rankings- the big differentiator is those focused on research & academics. There is lots and lots of data that shows that prestige of UG uni is a negligible factor in med school admissions: first cuts are typically done on GPA / sGPA / MCAT (often by automation, before any human has seen that the GPA was earned at SuperFamousU in ExtraHardMajor).

One of the collegekids went through some serious medical stuff in late HS, and one of the things we did as a distraction was to look up where each of the doctors went to UG & med school. She was astonished at how many of them had gone to UG schools that she had genuinely never even heard of!

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Thank you all for detailed explanations. I personally know two people who got into fairly high ranked medical colleges from unknown colleges…in the end student’s own credentials, hardwork and I guess luck…we have to consider “luck” as an important factor as well…

@Aum2022, luck has no part of med school admissions. Zilch.

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I only say as I am reading/watching youtube stuff lately. I hear about 518+ and good GPA kids not getting any interviews …which makes me think how wrong could they have gone on their EC and essays

The common trope is that kids who start college intending to be premed who don’t end up applying to med school are getting flushed out, or they took a weeder course (typically orgo or similar) and couldn’t cut it.

The reality is MUCH more nuanced. Many kids go off to college basically knowing five professions- teaching, medicine, law, nursing or something in allied health, CS. Good at science? Your teachers and family tell you “you’ll be a great doctor”. Good at debate? It’s law school for you. Etc.

But college isn’t like this. A kid will end up in an econ class to meet a distribution requirement and fall in love with the discipline. A kid doesn’t want to wake up at 7 am to get to an 8 am freshman seminar on “ethics and health policy” (which they figure is a good humanities course to take for a pre-med) and end up in a class on Sustainable Transportation, or Colonialism and Art (huge stories this week about major museums agreeing to repatriate parts of their collections), or a kid realizes that the cool jobs right now are for materials scientists who collaborate with robotics engineers on making lightweight and inexpensive prosthetics.

So keep in mind that pushing a kid to focus on the med school application process while they are still in HS may or may not work out as far as med school goes. And that’s fine! There may be other paths that turn out to be a LOT more interesting to that particular kid.

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It’s all relative. It’s very possible that these students applied to places where many many applicants had higher stats than they did.

And the essay “I’ve wanted to be an oncologist since I was 6 years old and my grandpa died of cancer” likely doesn’t reflect the kind of understanding of medicine, maturity, and self-reflection a med school committee is looking for.

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I think there is some element of luck–maybe randomness is better word-- is involved in the med school admission process. There are far too many qualified applicants and too few seats.

Randomness factors: which admission reader reviews an applicant’s essays; what state the applicant lives in; the size and competitiveness of the applicant pool in the year the student is applying, list of schools applied to…

RE: high stats applicants who don’t get interviews or acceptances. Stats aren’t everything. Stats are only a necessary first step in the process. Usually there is a reason why high stats applicants don’t get an acceptance. There is something in their application or interview that turns off the reader and/or interviewer. It could be a sense of entitlement, a hint of arrogance, a lack of self-reflection, lack of humility, lack of honesty & transparency, tone deafnesses, self-pity, excuse-making, money or power as motivation, the sense that medicine isn’t the students choice, but is a result of cultural or familial expectations. It could be that the applicant’s PS and ECs don’t match the mission of the school. (This is very common!) Or they don’t have the right mix of characteristics a particular school is looking for.

I knew a super high stat applicant (4.0 GPA with 98th percentile MCAT) who got shut out for 3 rounds of applications. He got interviews each round, but never any acceptances. He couldn’t figure out why. He decided to pursue a PhD in biochemistry. He was dismissed 2 years into the program for falsifying his work hours, falsifying data and embezzling funds from his research lab. He also was arrested for domestic abuse shortly after his dismissal from the PhD program. I can only believe that somehow that his inherent dishonesty and anger issues came across in his interviews. He’ll never be a doctor–and I believe that’s a very good thing.

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The link each year shares what undergrads their matriculating students attended. It’s a wide range. A decade or so ago when we were investigating pre-med for my current resident we attended two “Doctor Wannabe” days at undergrad places. These were actually run by their respective med schools. (U Rochester was not one of them BTW) Both told us they want to train doctors for a diversity of people/places, so look for students from a diversity of places.

From my personal experience I’ve seen students make it into med school from small religious colleges to large state schools and every public/private type in between. It makes sense.

I see this too whether you call it luck or randomness - and I’ve seen some that I wonder how they made it in and wish they hadn’t - always temperament and/or goal related. My guess is they were able to talk a good story.

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Is there any advantage (to get into med schools) in doing subjects like anatomy or physiology (first year med school subjects ) in UG; any role in helping with admissions or greater chances?

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I think this is a valid question. Does anyone know any kids who took anatomy or physiology as pre-meds? and got into med school- could these classes be a factor in their selection?
Thanks!