Pre med advice- Traditional route, advice re: preparation

Pre-Med & Medical School
41

My guy took Anatomy in high school - can’t remember if he repeated it in undergrad TBH. I doubt it would factor in at all with admissions.

That said, several of his UG classes helped him with his med school classes because they covered the same material - esp his brain classes which fit into his major. He said it was nice not to have to learn everything from scratch as some other students were having to do.

If they fit in a schedule, I’d take interesting courses with that thought in mind - not any helpfulness for admittance.

42

Thank you. What did your son major in. I am also not sure, but I do know a kid who I think… took anatomy…and made it to T20 school…so was wondering

43

He double majored in Brain and Cognitive Science and Biology. He also double minored in American Sign Language and Psychology. He went to UR for undergrad, so having multiple majors/minors there is easy due to next to no college core requirements.

Why the goal for T20?

1 Like
44

No any med school is the goal. The kid who took anatomy went to a t20 school.
Is it hard to maintain grades with “double majors”. I do not truly understand" major" as I did not do undergrad in states. …so much for my lack of knowledge
Thanks

1 Like
45

Major is a concentration of undergraduate course work in a particular subject, including advanced level undergraduate course work.

Unlike in some other countries, one’s major does not normally make up all or almost all of one’s undergraduate course work in US universities. US universities also typically have general education requirements that include areas outside the major. There is usually also schedule space for free electives.

In US universities, many pre-med students major in biology, which overlaps with many pre-med course requirements. But many major in other subjects and use out-of-major courses for pre-med requirements.

1 Like
46

Thank you.

47

If your student is less interested in needing a lot of core classes, look into colleges like Brown, U Rochester, and a few others that allow students to take whatever interests them alongside their major (what they get their actual degree in).

I’m not sure having a high GPA is tougher with multiple majors as long as they’re courses the student enjoys. Studying is less of a chore when you’re fascinated with the subject. Getting grades in classes you don’t really care for, but must take, would be more work for me. This is why it’s suggested for pre-meds to major in something they like - not something they simply feel would be impressive to admissions. Medical school teaches everything a doctor needs to know.

U Rochester (undergrad) also has a Take 5 option where a student can apply for a 5th year tuition free if they study something totally irrelevant to their major - just for the enjoyment of the study. It’s competitive to get, but my guy took advantage of it and loved it, studying something to the effect of “Western Influence on ‘Success’ in Africa.” That’s not the exact title, but gets the gist across. Room & Board aren’t included for free, but he was also an RA (Resident Advisor in a dorm) so his room was free. It was an inexpensive year for a lot of academic fun for him. I don’t know that such a thing helps med school apps either, but it certainly didn’t hurt him.

To get into med school a student needs high academics/MCAT, a lot of volunteering and shadowing to show they know what the job really is, then they need to be themselves actively doing what truly interests them. Mine had the top academics/MCAT to be in the top grouping here (same link @ucbalumnus gave before):

https://www.aamc.org/media/6091/download?attachment

volunteering/shadowing, research, a couple of overseas medical missions trips (Cote D’Ivoire and Philippines), on campus jobs from freshman year, was an RA for 3 years, TA for a few classes, president and active in ASL, dance, juggling, + religious clubs, and a good enough juggler to make it onto his U’s advertisements juggling fire. (This was mentioned in UR’s medical school profile for his year, so they took note of it.)

What we’re not sure about is if he ever slept.

But no one needs to copy him exactly. Others on here who have kids currently in or went through med school would have done other equally as interesting and challenging things. My guy loved everything he did. The only thing he specifically did “just” for med school was the MCAT. He’d have done all the rest even if he didn’t go the medical route. Until he actually applied he was considering research too. Research was his Plan B. Now he’s 100% sure he chose the right path for him. He loves being a doctor.

1 Like
48

I glanced through this thread. It came upon me that we know essentially nothing about your situation beyond “give me advice.”

It might be helpful if you told us a little bit more.

4 Likes
49

@Aun2022
My older D took an UL anatomy class in college. Its offered no advantage whatsoever for med school admission. And it didn’t really help with anatomy in med school since the med school version was much more in-depth and detailed.

Some med school require anatomy and/or physiology as pre-req for admission. I know Ohio State does.

Med school is much more intense than undergrad and covers much more material at a faster pace. A med school class will cover the material taught in a semester of a UL undergrad class in about a week.

D1 doubled majored in physics and math and minored in chemistry
D2 doubled majored in neuroscience and mathematics.

Double majors require more work and more classes.

A major is area of concentration where the student take a prescribed list of classes that are required for graduation in that major. A major usually requires a student take 8-15 classes in the major area. Some majors also have co-requisite classes. These classes are required to complete the major but are outside the specialty area. For example, a bio major is usually required to take gen chem, Ochem, physics and calculus as co-requisites. An English major might be required to take several years of a foreign language as a co-requisite.

US colleges also have distribution requirements which are often referred to as general education classes. Students need to take classes outside their area of study–like writing skills, science/math, social sciences, foreign language, arts & literature.

Gen ed requirements are to help a student become more well rounded and provide a better understanding of the world they live in.

So a double major requires a student to take 8-12 classes in each major, plus still complete all co-requisites and distribution requirements.

1 Like
50

Thank you all! So my kid will be starting college this fall. We tried for BS/MD but did not make it.
Looking to go into freshman year with the right knowledge and frame of mind…not to be scared that we can’t make it…but to be prepared form the beginning.
All the advise here is very helpful.

1 Like
51

I think your kid did a great job! To manage double majors and all the extracurriculars- not easy and made it to med school… we need to hear these stories to stay motivated…especially after BS/MD …BS/MD thread was great, but after a while we felt we lost…all others made it …definitely anxiety provoking but there are so many success stories, like yourselves and Wayoutwestmom…in traditional route. We would like to believe, my kid can as well and give it our best shot.

52

My thoughts regarding why med schools want to see top grades with so many activities, both medical and “fun,” is because they need to know a student can handle doing the greater depth (and in less time) in med school. Kids who need to study all the time just to get the grades are less likely to be able to step up their academic game.

Then they like a diversity of “fun” and other non-medical experiences to have a more rounded class - creating doctors for all sorts of people and places.

Again, just my thoughts - so maybe they have other reasons. Who knows?

But many kids do get in each year, so yes, it’s possible if she gives it her best shot. Make sure she enjoys the journey too - you don’t want high stress or burnout. Have an acceptable Plan B that she also likes.

1 Like
53

Thank you! Plan B can be DO schools as well…

54

DO schools are also very selective, though a bit less so than MD schools. Be sure that there is a plan C if DO school is plan B.

2 Likes
55

Thank you.

56

Where is your kid going to college this fall? That may make a lot of things easier or harder. Is it a college with an affiliated med school? Is it urban, rural, suburban? How competitive is the school? Does he/she have to go through the weedout courses?

The reason I ask all these questions is because the path to medicine is not a one size fits all approach. Sure some boxes need to be ticked off but more and more, it is becoming a game of attrition and true will – not of the parents but of the kids. The matriculation age is creeping up and admission committees are looking for real passion. Hence so many kids with stellar grades are being left behind.

57

Not finalized yet. But between Case Western, U of R and U Pitt, all have med school affiliations.

What are "weedout"courses?

58

I personally don’t think you should look at plan B as being DO schools. These medical schools are also competitive for admissions.

When people mention a Plan B…it usually means something beside “doctor”…perhaps PA or nurse practitioner, physical therapist, occupational therapist, speech pathologist, any of the allied health professions if the student wants to do something related to patient treatment or care.

Many aspiring doctors apply to a mix of allopathic (MD) and osteopathic (DO) medical schools. Even with that, a very large percentage of applicants receive no acceptances.

Re: anatomy and physiology. My kid actually took a dual enrollment course in high school…then took the course again college because her majors both required it. It was a course she actually loved! She wasn’t happy to be required to take it again…but she has to to satisfy her degree requirement.

3 Likes
59

Accepted MD applicant here (this cycle)

Getting rejected from a BS/MD is probably a blessing in disguise. Most of those programs suck and if you decide against medicine (many do) it’s a drag.

Weedout courses are those with very large class sizes and end up ‘weeding out’ large numbers of premeds; i.e. in general chemistry or organic chemistry, a large proportion of a ~200+ class will be getting C’s or below which will probably prompt them to drop the premed path.

As long as you fulfill the premedical course requirements, it does not really matter what courses you take on top of that. English, philosophy, etc. majors get into medical schools; biology is the most common as much of the requirements are already in the major. Do what you like, although it is not advisable to do something like engineering or math, as it will both be more difficult (lower GPA) and more time intensive (worse ECs)…unless you are extremely confident in your ability.

There are three main pillars of an application in terms of ECs: clinical experience, volunteering experience, and research; shadowing too. Fulfill those in whatever way you deem best with activities you care about. Box-checking is not advisable.

Assuming all is well in the EC department and GPA is appropriate, the MCAT will be the most important thing in determining your application success. A 90th percentile score (515) is going to be a pretty solid target and will get you into a great school. Top schools require 95th and even 99th percentile scores, but much of this depends on your region and demographics.

Generally all of this information is available online in plenty of forms. These days, many people take a gap year to pursue something such as research or to simply beef up their application. Box-checking and ‘normal’ achievement in the EC categories is usually longer sufficient for admission into good schools.

For college selection, it is advisable to pick the cheapest school as long as the ranking is within reason (i.e. do not pick a full tuition rank 200 school if you can go to Case for a decent price—Case is also a great premed school with an excellent medical school, a great choice).

2 Likes
60

Thanks for your response. Many congratulations on MD acceptance!!! Its a big achievement.

Few questions:
Would you mind sharing your EC activities - and how difficult was it to juggle with studies. How early in freshman year do you start with EC or can we just take time to ease into classes and then figure out as we go along…

U of R compared to Case? Would you consider Case and UR same?
thanks!