<p>I'm trying to decide between Harvard and Brown PLME/Northwestern HPME (guarranteed admission to medical school).</p>
<p>I'm not afraid of having to work very hard for medical school, but I still want to have a good experience and not be constantly dragged by competition/pressure.</p>
<p>Harvard has always been my dream school. Being a doctor has always been my dream career.</p>
<p>Which school do you think I should choose?</p>
<p>I can really understand your dilemma. My son planned to apply to Brown's PLME program if Harvard EA didn't work out. My d. attended Brown and loved it beyond words. So, from where I sit, you have two amazing choices.</p>
<p>In my son's case, he was really in love with Harvard and felt that he didn't want to give up that opportunity. He was willing to put up with the med school application stress--he's very strong in the sciences, and so felt reasonably sure that he would be able to gain admission to med school. He's only a freshman, but so far, no complaints about things being cut-throat or overly competitive. Also, he wasn't sure about wanting to spend 8 years in Providence, and it was unclear to us if accepting PLME meant you are contractually committing to stay. Also, I believe their med school is small, and a large proportion of the class is made up of PLME's.--so maybe that could feel a bit limiting (check into this, in case I'm not correct). In any case, you have an enviable problem--Congratulations and good luck as you make your decision!</p>
<p>premed at harvard is EXTREMELY competitive. but you're also basically gauranteed med school.</p>
<p>Congratulations, that is a nice choice to have. As you know, Brown's medical school is not considered one of the "top" ones in the country ... but being a PLME student puts you in somewhat of a separate category when it comes time to apply for a residency. I don't know much about the environment at Brown.</p>
<p>Harvard is <em>extremely</em> competitive for premeds. Some people absolutely thrive on that type of pressure, whereas some simply cannot function in that environment -- I think most are somewhere in between. Slightly over 90% of premeds are accepted into a medical school ... many at "top" schools. some at "mediocre" ones.</p>
<p>FWIW, I do know several people who left Brown PLME after their undergraduate degrees (both to attend Harvard Medical School), but I don't know about their specific situations.</p>
<p>You are not guaranteed med school admit w/harvard premed undergrad. HAVE to do well, and I mean an A in org. chem.</p>
<p>Quote: "HAVE to do well, and I mean an A in org. chem."</p>
<p>I hardly think that's a pre-requisite to getting into med school. I'm sure that the 90% who do at Harvard didn't all get an A in orgo. (my husband interviews for his med school, and it's certainly not the case for his school, tho of course students have to generally do very well academically). And coming from Harvard doesn't exactly hurt when you're applying, believe me.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone, for your advice.
Haha, is organic chem pretty much the LIFE or DEATH class?
Keep the advice coming! I really appreciate it!</p>
<p>If you get into Harvard, what's your chances at Harvard Med School?</p>
<p>I didn't want to chime in, but I think I have to do so. As a pre-med freshman here, it is NOT AT ALL competitive. Most people are perfectly willing to help in class and you have a lot of resources in order to help you do well (professor, preceptor, TFs, other students, review sessions, etc). Where it does get competitive is probably the "extras" such as clinical experience, science research, etc. No one says what they're doing, unless they're reasonably assured that everyone knows what they're doing anyway.</p>
<p>You do NOT need to get an A in organic chemistry in order to go to any medical school. In fact, the average GPA of a pre-med at Harvard is a 3.5, which certainly means that they have received couple of Bs (since an A = 4.0 and A- = 3.7).</p>
<p>does Johns Hopkins pre-med compare to pre-med at Harvard?</p>
<p>do u know how many people die 4 a choice like yours.... Harvard is soooo competitive though!</p>
<p>I agree completely with what xjayz said.</p>
<p>As a freshman, I'm sure I haven't seen the whole premed picture. But the intro Chem sequence (Life Sci 1a/Chem 5 + Chem 7) isn't easy (or particularly well taught) but it's definitely doable and kids cooperate all the time (I don't think I've ever done a problem set on my own). Intro bio (Life Sci 1b) is similar. Organic seems hard, but you can always take it over the summer if you're worried.</p>
<p>I've also had a bunch of conversations with other premeds of all ages here, all of whom have seen driven (duh), but also really nice and helpful.</p>
<p>As for the OP, tough (but great) choice you have. Make sure that if you go the PLME route, you'll still have a real college experience (social life, liberal arts classes, etc).</p>
<p><em>edit</em> Thousandth post! Not sure whether I should be happy, or embarassed.</p>
<p>To add to what just<em>forget</em>me said, kids at Harvard LOVE Organic Chemistry. Chemistry 20/30, the more theoretical organic chem sequence is taught by Garry Proctor, who is easily one of the best professors here. All my friends in Chemistry 20 love him, plus the head TF, Israel Meir, is always available on AIM and questions. They say it's not easy, but they say that there are more than enough resources available in order to help do well in the class. </p>
<p>Chemistry 17 has been taught by Eric Jacobsen for a very long time. Chemistry 17/27 is the organic chemistry sequence with a biological approach. Eric Jacobsen's class has consistently been rated 4.0 and above on the CUE Guide and everyone says he is a fantastic lecturer. I have talked to humanities pre-med students and they have said that they fell in love with Organic Chemistry after taking Chemistry 17. Chemistry 27 is taught by either David Liu or Matthew Shair, both who are very good professors as well. Plus, Chemistry 27 applies what you learned in Chemistry 17, so by the time the MCAT rolls around, people say that they know their Organic Chem cold.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Organic Chemistry (both Chem 17/27 and Chemistry 20/30) ARE NOT graded on a curve. Rather, an 85+ average gets you an A and so on. Harvard professors try to LIMIT the competition as much as possible. Even in Chemistry 7, which I am taking now, in order to get a B, you need a 75 average. As long as you put in the work (which may be much at times, God knows this week's Chemistry 7 problem set is freakin hard as hell), there is no reason why you should not do well here.</p>
<p>How hard could it be to get a 4.0 GPA if certain classes give you a be for a 75 average?</p>
<p>Chem 7 is graded in a pretty weird manner. At the beginning of the year, they told us it wouldn't be curved (to encourage cooperation, I guess). But then the mean scores for the first two midterms have been in the mid 70s. They don't want to give everyone C's, but they have their hands tied when it comes to curving the tests, so that led them to change the grading scale as a way of making a curve without officially doing so.</p>
<p>Getting a 4.0 is not easy (maybe one person does it every 15 years), because even if you get all A's, one A- drops you below the 4.0 mark.</p>
<p>If you're gonna be a doctor all your life, wouldn't it be nice to spend your time as an undergrad at a college with some diversity? I'm sure you'll be happy in medicine, but it'll probably be really worthwhile not to spend every moment from 18 onwards in a medical environment!</p>
<p>I thought Harvard has grade inflation though?</p>
<p>Nothing unique about grade inflation at Harvard.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gradeinflation.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.gradeinflation.com/</a></p>
<p>Thanks everyone for your awesome advice!
It's off to Harvard for me :)</p>