Pre-Med GPA 3.3 MCAT-??? What Are My Chances??

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

Hello all,

I am a pre-med senior at Michigan State University (will graduate in December after 4.5 years) with a 3.35 cumulative and similar science GPA. I am planning to take the MCAT as early as January of 2016 and applying through the Spring and Summer. I am primarily interested in osteopathic schools because of their philosophy but also want to apply to allopathic schools. I know that a 3.3 GPA is low but I am going to list certain factors surrounding this as well as my extracurriculars over the past 4 years. I have spoken to various admission advisors but it seems they usually say very similar things. I am trying to get input from other current and past medical students or anyone else who is involved in the admission process.

Academics:
-Failed inorganic chemistry and biology lab sophmore year due to family crises
-Upward trend in grades the past 1.5 years from 2.6 to 3.35
-4.0 GPA in Genetics, Human Anatomy, Physiology I&II, Immunology, Microbiology, Biochemistry, Health Psychology, Inorganic Chem (retake)
-3.5 GPA in Virology, Organic Chemistry I, Physics I and Epidemiology

Extracurriculars:
-Volunteered in the ED for 3 semesters and inpatient for 1 semester
-Volunteered over 200 hours for the Red Cross
-Shadowed outpatient DOs amounting to 50 hours
-Work(ed) as a Medical Scribe in the ED for 6 months
-Member of Human Bio Club
-Mission trip for 1 week to Mexico
-100 hours various volunteer experience (animal shelters, food banks, blood drives)
-High school consisted of 4 years of football at private school with 40 hours communitry service

This sums up about 90% of my resume, pending 5 letters of recommendation, 2 from DOs and 1 MD.

2

I’m sure you’ve looked at this grid from AAMC of acceptance rates by ethnicity:

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html


Really impossible to make any guesses without a MCAT score.

While there are some allopathic schools that will consider an upward trend, your cGPA and sGPA are low enough that you're right on the cusp of getting auto-screened out. (And thus the adcomm won't ever see your upward trend because they'll never review your application in the first place.)

Consider applying to Central Michigan and Western Michigan if you meet their mission.

Buy the MSAR. Don't apply to ay school where your GPA or/and MCAT puts in the bottom 10 percent.
3

Thanks for the reply. I am half black and half white, identified as Afro-Carribean on the aamc website. Otherwise, I agree, the new MCAT score will play a large role. Based off the chart, it appears that may help me if I score in the middle range. I am looking at CMU and WMU in addition to MSUCHM and OU.

4

You do not snow any Med. Research internship? Did you have any? Did you forget to list it?
I would not mention any family crisis. As a med. student, resident, attending, you are expected to perform no matter what. You either at work and do it beyond expected 100% or you take time off and not working at all. Anything in between is not acceptable as you will be dealing with very sick people who will rely on you to stay alive. Forget family crisis, never mention it anywhere.
High School experience is irrelevant.
College GPA is low but you are aware of it anyway.

5

I do not have any research. Most of my time has been spent doing volunteer work and church service (which I have not mentioned) This seems to be of little consequence for D.O. schools, however. Also, as a 18 or 19 year old, I can’t imagine that a board would not take into account things such as loss of life, especially at such a young age. Many people are just starting to figure out how to make it in this world, let alone cope with something like that. A few of the advisers I have spoken with have told me it is OK and encouraged to list this in my secondary application and possibly in my personal statement.

6

Although research is certainly a positive to an app, it’s not a req. As med schools don’t publish the weight given, if any, to family crises (or any other components of a med school app), it’s impossible to know how such events would be viewed by any school. IMO, your GPA is not competitive for MD schools, your ECs are not strong, and no MCAT score as of yet. Note that for MD schools, any failed grade and the new grade will both be used in GPA calculations. And med schools tend to want either committee letters or LORs from 2 faculty (2 science, I non science). DO schools might offer better chance even if you rock MCAT score. Good luck

7

@Julgulator20, Just have a few points to respond to. First, the adviser for MSUCOM whom I spoke with said that circumstances surrounding poor grades are considered. I don’t know if this is unique to MSUCOM, DO schools, or generalized to all medical schools. Second, from what ground can you say that my ECs are not strong? I always thought that volunteerism, community service, clinical experience and patient contact were important. (my medical scribe job for example has me follow an attending, PA or NP for the duration of their shift, see the pts and do all of their charting). Third, again when I spoke with the adviser, she said that the school requires only 3 LOR, 2 from professionals (faculty, physician or Phd.) I believe this varies from school to school? Thanks

8

Circumstances may be considered --that varies by school, its individual policies and even by which reader is randomly assigned to your application. On the whole DO programs tend to be more forgiving of poor grades and the circumstances surrounding them than are MD programs.

Besides, even before adcomms can consider your circumstances, you first have to get past the GPA screening cut-offs, which as I mentioned you may not survive.

(BTW, my children lost both their dad and their only grandfather within 10 months time and still managed to maintain excellent grades. Family deaths, even multiple family deaths, during college aren’t as uncommon as you seem to believe and med school adcomms tend to be leery of applicants using family deaths are an excuse for poor performance. Not taking a LOA when you can’t perform well is an indicator of poor judgment. Seriously, medicine is a very unforgiving profession for people who can’t manage personal/emotional crises successfully.)

RE: ECs.

Medical mission trips are considered “medical tourism” and are held in low repute by adcomms.

High school activities really aren’t considered by adcomms. (Med schools are all about “what you done lately?”)

The duration appears of your community service appears to be mostly short-term. Adcomms strongly prefer to see long-term, multiple year involvement with a single community service activity, rather than a laundry list of stuff.

You also don’t have any leadership activities/positions listed.

You lack research experience. (For allopathic med schools over 85% of applicant have 1 or more years of bench or clinical research experience.)

RE: LORs.

Allopathic med schools generally require 3 LORs–all from academic professors (2 science, 1 non-science); or a committee letter. Letters from physicians are not considered.

Osteopathic med schools have different LOR requirements. Beside the academic letters, they often require a LOR from osteopathic physician. DO programs may also ask for LOR from a work or clinical site supervisor.

9

@WAY0UTWESTMOM Thank you for your thoughtful response. I suppose I am lucky in the sense that I am not, nor have been die hard about going MD. I appreciate the fact that DO schools tend to look for a more well-rounded applicant not strictly academic and are more likely to take circumstantial factors into account. This and their philosophy of looking at the emotional, spiritual and social background of a patient, as well as learning OMM techniques is what attracts me to their curriculum. This being said, I understand that both schools want to make doctors who can practice under any family/emotional crisis.

(Props to your kids for staying at the top of their academic game during that tough time. My situation was losing my last 2 grandparents within 1 year and having to be the sole caretaker of and mediator for my sister who was institutionalized twice for suicide attempts over the span of 2 years.)

My one long term activity will most likely end up being working in the ED as a medical scribe, which I will have done for 30-40 hrs/wk for 1.5 years (by the time I apply). Being a member of and participating in Human bio club events on and off campus for the past 2 years and service with the Red Cross over 2 years are the only other longstanding service commitments.

10

This also applies to many (most? nearly all?) allopathic medical schools now too.

11

@iwannabe_Brown So does the excerpt from this article and many others like it not apply?: D.O.s practice osteopathic medicine which is centered around a more holistic view of medicine in which the focus is on seeing the patient as a “whole person” to reach a diagnosis, rather than treating the symptoms alone.

12

That is merely a cliché that’s often repeated about osteopathic medicine.

One of the DO adcomm members over at SDN said the cliché is used so often that it’s practically grounds for an automatic rejection at his DO program if an applicant mentions it in the PS or secondaries (and especially if it’s mentioned in the “Why osteopathy?” question all DO programs ask.) Why? because it reveals the applicant really hasn’t researched very much about the philosophy & history of osteopathic medicine.

He recommends reading some books about osteopathy like these:

Philosophy of Osteopathy by A.T. Stills (one of founders of osteopathic medicine)

http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Osteopathy-Classic-Reprint-Still/dp/B008GON81K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1441060112&sr=8-2&keywords=osteopathic+medicine

DOs: Osteopathic Medicine in America by Norman Gevitz

http://www.amazon.com/DOs-Osteopathic-Medicine-America/dp/0801878349/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441060028&sr=8-1&keywords=osteopathic+medicine

Osteopathy & the Zombie Apocalypse: a Career Guide for Pre-Med and Pre-College Students: Why you want to be an Osteopathic Medical Doctor at the End of the World! by Mitchell Cohen

http://www.amazon.com/Osteopathy-Zombie-Apocalypse-Pre-College-Osteopathic/dp/1479297518/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1441060342&sr=8-9&keywords=osteopathic+medicine+history


"Treating the whole person" is not just something osteopaths do; it's an approach that certainly been emphasized by the medical educations both my daughters have received at their allopathic med schools.
13

@WAY0UTWESTMOM Thank you for the links. The Osteopathy & Zombie Apocalypse looks like an especially interesting read ;)) Also, I have created an account at SDN to network and for more advice. Ultimately, especially through watching the diagnoses, treatment and course for my sister’s psychological conditions has convinced me that holistic care is important. For example, throwing medications such as SSRIs and SNRIs at people who may not truly have a deficiency (such was the case with my sister) really provoked me to do a lot of reading neuro and psych reading. I feel as though if they looked at the familial-socio-behavioral aspects, medication would not have been necessary at all.

(background, I was diagnosed with drug-induced depression after consuming too much alcohol, cannabis and neglecting to eat enough calories to cope with everything and was prescribed Prozac and Duloxetine which I DO believe helped me-I think that situational or emotional depression is different than a true imbalance or lack of chemicals in the brain)- After only several months of these medications, with much improved diet and cessation of any drugs I was back to my optimistic, happy-go-lucky demeanor. I plan to use this kind of introspection when going through the application process/in my interview. Comments on this greatly appreciated.

14

Yep, it’s an antiquated view of the split between DO and MD.

WOW Mom’s 3rd link sounds pretty glib too, to be honest (i only read the short description) - i guess if it’s recommended by a DO adcom it can’t be that bad but lots of MDs embrace acupuncture and the term “natural medicine” is honestly a bit of a sham in my opinion. It appeals to the chemophobia that many people have. Many of today’s modern pharmaceuticals are derivatives or even just purified extracts of “natural” compounds. Generally “being open to natural remedies” is code for “eschewing evidence based medicine.” My hospital has plenty of DOs, and they practice the same medicine as the MDs. The 2nd link is too vague for me to get a read on, but the reviews sound good. The views of the founder are always worth considering, but remember that AT Still died in 1917. That’s just shy of 100 years ago, and founded the first osteopathic school in 1892. Medicine has changed a lot in the last 100+ years since Still created the DO philosophy.

Quite frankly, (and maybe it’s just because I haven’t really researched myself that extensively either), I don’t really know how one would answer why DO? Especially with the upcoming merging of MD and DO residencies, I honestly don’t see how DO is going to be anything but medical school for weaker applicants (some of whom will turn out to be better physicians in the long run because the med school application process isn’t infallible). I doubt writing “I’m going to DO school because I can’t get into MD school but I know I’ll be a great physician” is any better an answer to the why DO question.

15

<<<
-Failed inorganic chemistry and biology lab sophmore year due to family crises
-Upward trend in grades the past 1.5 years from 2.6 to 3.35


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Well, DO schools allow grade replacement. you retook those, correct? What is your GPA for DO schools?

You still have senior year to do more GPA repair. Are you taking BCMP courses this year? What do you think your GPAs will be after senior year???

16

@iwannabe_Brown Alas, with the merging of the residencies, the only difference be the exclusion of DOs for certain specialties/fellowships? If this changes with time, I feel the only difference will be at the med school application process because DO schools are “proud to be different and founded on holistic principles”?

@mom2coIIegekids I retook the chemistry with a 4.0 and am retaking bio lab this fall. I only have 8 credits or so left with the bio lab, orgo chem lab and an elective. Even 4.0ing these 3 will only bring me to a borderline cGPA of 3.4.

-Because I am science major and it was degree req, anything less than a 2.0 is considered a “fail.” The school has a policy that if you receive a 2.0 or higher, you cannot retake the class.

17

Just because your current college will not allow you to retake any course if you earned a C or better, that doesn’t mean you can’t retake the class elsewhere and use the retake to replace your previous grade for a DO application.

The general advice for DO applicants is to retake all C/D/F coursework and use AACOMAS’s grade replacement policy to improve your GPA.

18

@WAY0UTWESTMOM I was not aware of this before. I knew that DO schools take the better grade rather than averaging like MD schools do but I thought it had to be considered a “failed class.” However, this would mean retaking Physics 2 (2.0), Organic chem 2 (2.0), Stats (2.0), precalc (2.5), Biology 1 (2.5), and gen chem (2.5). These classes were taken, however, during my freshman and sophomore year during the familial issues. After speaking to several DO advisers, it seems that my upward trend and ECs may be enough with my current sGPA, pending a good MCAT. Rather than retaking these, how much more do you believe taking other upper level courses (histology, neurology, etc) would help? I feel I would excel and enjoy these classes more than the basic level sciences because I am simply more interested in them and they are more medically relevant.

19

[QUOTE=""]
I only have 8 credits or so left with the bio lab, orgo chem lab and an elective. Even 4.0ing these 3 will only bring me to a borderline cGPA of 3.4.

[/QUOTE]

?

Are you graduating this fall? If so, do you HAVE to? You can always take MORE than the required BCMP to boost your GPA.

Have classes started for you this fall? If not, take more classes…take some BCMP classes that you know that you’ll do well in.


[QUOTE=""]
However, this would mean retaking Physics 2 (2.0), Organic chem 2 (2.0), Stats (2.0), precalc (2.5), Biology 1 (2.5), and gen chem (2.5). <<<

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If you have to pick and choose which ones to retake, then retake the ones that you can get an A and have the most credits. That will have the bigger impact. Retake Ochem (if you think you can get an A).

If you think you can retake Ochem and Bio and get A’s, those may be the most useful.

20

@mom2coIIegekids I would retake Orgochem and Bio 1 at MSU but because I scored at least a 2.0, they do not allow it. I would have to take them at a CC (where the curriculum is traditionally not as tough). I do not know how DO schools would weigh this. I know that Post-Bacs are another option but I do not have to finances and would like to start Med school by 2017…

Also, forgot to add that before my current scribe job, I worked for MSU as a telemarketer and through cold calling and donor acquisition, fund-raised over $35,000 for scholarships and other programs.