New to the site, sorry if redundant. Looking for maybe specific advice? I get going to a less competitive schools has its merits, but convince me to try my hand at a more prestigious school.
I am currently a high schooler with a pretty good idea of what tier school I am capable of being admitted into- 2180 SAT, 3.9/4.0 GPA, Asian Male from competitive HS.After looking on a lot of forums, many people are suggesting attending mid-tier states schools in efforts for higher class rank and GPA in lieu of more competitive higher-ranked schools.Money isn’t a major factor for me, but not of no consideration. I recently visited USC, UCLA, and UCSD and absolutely loved the campuses. USC and UCLA have a grand stoic vibe (all those brick buildings) with prestigious programs and UCSD with a hospital and great resources right on campus. I also know these schools are very competitive, especially UCLA. Being a NJ resident, Rutgers is ridiculously affordable and has decent pre-med. However, I feel uncomfortable staying so close to home and am very tempted to attend a school more “prestigious” or higher ranked programs. Will being an average pre-med student at UCLA and USC be less beneficial than a slightly higher gpa and class rank from a state school? To be honest, I would absolutely love to go OOS and try my hardest to be competitive at UCLA or a school like that, but if there is a significantly stronger chance of Med school admittance by going to my state school, I guess I would. Basically, I am asking for clarification as to importance of prestige and rank of pre med school. Would it be okay to have a mediocre GPA from a prestigious school or would such performances be less beneficial than high gpa’s from mid-tier schools?
Sorry for wordiness, all replies appreciated!
I think it plays some factor as to rank of the school, but if you go there and have a bad GPA, that won’t help. You’d probably want to have around a 3.6 GPA at least at a competitive school, if that helps at all.
3.6 @ UCLA vs 3.8 @ Rutgers with same MCAT treated equally? Only top 17% get A’s with UCLA curve so its tough to get a stellar GPA considering the academic studs attending UCLA lol 8-X
Is Rutgers a private or state school? State schools where you live will give you the most advantage, since they give preference to in state students. Regardless of where you go, you will want to keep your grades up, obviously. And a 3.6 at UCLA would probably look better than a 3.6 at Rutgers. A lot does depend on where you apply to med school. I don’t know a lot about the schools tho!
High overall GPA, high science GPA, high MCAT scores and a few medically related EC’s which demonstrate you know what you are getting yourself into. Prestige of the school is not that important. I would assume that UCLA holds no pre-med advantage over Rutgers for a NJ resident. In fact, it might hurt you to leave NJ if you plan on attending medical school in your home state. And good luck getting into a California medical school if you are an out of state student.
Medical schools, as far as I know, consider your state of residence, not your state of college attendance.
You could reach your goals from a variety of schools. Some of the colleges on this online list may offer a combination of prestige and support: “The Experts’ Choice: Colleges with Great Pre-med Programs.”
Read my comment in your other post!
Rutgers is a perfectly fine school, despite the number of NJ residents posting here who seem to want to go anywhere else.
Save your money for expensive medical school (see https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/select.cfm?year_of_study=2016 ). Also, staying in NJ can make it easier to interview at NJ public medical schools than if you were on the other coast.
Of course, you can make your application list with other schools selected to be likely to offer good financial aid (see their net price calculators) or merit scholarships that reduce the price to Rutgers level or lower.
Here are some merit scholarship lists to consider:
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/ (if you make National Merit)
Rutgers is state school and I really have no worries getting in and would prob go for honors college if I decided to attend 
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think it plays some factor as to rank of the school, but if you go there and have a bad GPA, that won’t help. You’d probably want to have around a 3.6 GPA at least at a competitive school, if that helps at all.
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The first part of this answer…no, not when it’s UCLA vs Rutgers. Maybe if it was between UCLA and some podunk school… Rutgers and UCLA and a whole bunch of other schools would be viewed the same by med schools.
The second part,…yes. A 3.6 would be the minimum for an unhooked traditional applicant, likely higher for an Asian applicant…probably needs to be nearly perfect for an Asian applicant applying from a Calif undergrad…I am not kidding. Asian applicants from Calif are very ORM.
RE: Going to a UC (or any Calif school) as an OOS premed has got to be one of the biggest missteps a premed could do. Aside from the fact that a UC would be very expensive (and no aid is given to OOS), the UCs are over-crowded with premeds, there’s a gunner mentality, the premed advising is lacking, they don’t write Committee Letters, and because there are too many premeds applying to med schools, the acceptance rate is not good.
If part of your reason to want to go to a UC as an OOS premed is because you hope to go to a Calif med school, then that is another almost hopeless goal.
There are no pluses to be had going to a UC as an OOS premed…there are only minuses.
The idea of “trying my hand” at a more prestigious school if you TRULY and SINCERLY want to go to med school is just terribly naive. The path to med school can be smooth…or it can be horribly rocky requiring several extra years due to grade repair or simply applying from a school or state that has too many premeds.
The numbers are just nasty…
California ~ MD Schools of Medicine
Some numbers are rounded IS = instate
SOM applicants IS app % Matriculants IS Matriculants %
UCD 7200 62% 110 99% (maybe the 1 OOS is MD/PhD)
UCI 6300 73% 104 94% (maybe the 2 OOS are MD/PhD)
UCR 5700 76% 50 100%
UCSD 7500 59% 125 75%
UCLA-G 8600 60% 151 83%
UCSF 7500 48% 165 75%
USC 8200 51% 185 77%
Stanford 7200 35% 90 35%
Med schools interview roughly 5-10% of their applicants.
MD/PhD students included in above numbers....and can be from any state since NSF pays their tuition.
UCLA Drew not included...only 24 matriculants....mission driven.
The new private SOM Calif Northstate is also not included.
As you can see....Calif med schools have a problem of too many applicants, not nearly enough seats,....and most have a strong instate preference.
Look at UCLA's numbers...8600 applicants, 3440 are OOS resident applicants, yet only 25 matriculate, and some of those are MD/PhD.
If you want to go OOS, then fine…go OOS…but pick a state where attendance provides you a tie to the state and an edge to acceptance into their med schools, while keeping the edge to your home state’s med schools.
Go to Rutgers. Paying extra money to go to essentially Rutgers in LA is foolish. If I were going to spend more than in state tuition I would spend it at Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Colgate, Bates, Holy Cross, Hamilton etc not UCLA.
As an anecdote, when a prospective student asked recently of a chemistry professor/medical school advisor at a selective northeastern LAC about medical school acceptance rates, she was told simply, “Our students get into medical school.” No hyperbole seemed to be involved, though the comment came after a discussion with a sincere, advanced student (two years of high school chemistry, etc.) who seemed eager to perform to her potential, and that would naturally have been part of its basis.
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Go to Rutgers. Paying extra money to go to essentially Rutgers in LA is foolish
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Quite true. But if the student is determined to go OOS, then he could find options OOS that might cost the same or less than Rutgers with merit for his stats.
The OP does say that money is somewhat of a concern, so paying $55k per year for UCLA (no aid for OOS), is just crazy. Save your money for med school.
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Convince Me To Attend A Harder School
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The above is what troubles me. First of all, UCLA would not be harder than Rutgers. I don’t know what the OP plans on majoring in, but the premed prereqs are hard at all “good schools”. I think the OP thinks that the instruction will be “better” at UCLA. No…it won’t be. However, at UCLA his premed prereq classes will have a gazillion premeds gunning for the limited A’s. The premed prereqs at nearly all state schools and many privates are large lecture classes with smaller labs (often run by grad students). The idea that the prereqs would be “better” at UCLA over Rutgers or any number of schools is just silly.
I think some high school kids think that a (presumed) “harder school” will better prepare them for the MCAT. Undergrad schools do not prepare students for the MCAT. (If you want to help prepare yourself for the MCAT, then take a couple of philosophy classes, including Deductive Logic and Critical Thinking! At a minimum, Deductive Logic should be a premed prereq!)
Back to the idea of attending a “harder school” where there are a gazillion premeds… attending a school where most or all of the premeds are “as strong” or stronger than you are can mean that the competition for A’s in the weeder classes can be more difficult. It can also make it more difficult securing excellent LORs when your resume looks no better than the next guy’s.
About 18 months ago, a 4.0 premed student from UT-Dallas transferred to Vanderbilt. He had been a NMF and had accepted UT-D’s free ride. But, he thought that attending a “better school” would better his med school chances ( a common misperception). UT-Dallas is a fine school, and very strong in the sciences, but he thought the Vandy name would “look better”. But, Vandy is loaded with top stats premeds. This student’s 4.0 GPA tanked and soon was not med school worthy. Does that mean that this kid wasn’t smart enough for med school? No, not at all. HIs story is especially sad because as a Texas resident, if he had stayed the course at UT-Dallas, he would have been a shoo-in for many, if not all of the Texas med schools…and more.
Getting into med school is not a test of who is the “smartest” or who has the highest IQ. lol. Not at all. Getting in is a mix of smarts and strategy. The wrong strategy can mean ending up with a GPA that isn’t med school worthy.
I would recommend you slowly read @mom2collegekids advice. It is spot on. As a physician, I can tell you that medical school was not filled with people from “prestige colleges” but rather people who had high GPAs, high science GPAs and high MCAT scores. The idea that general chemistry, organic chemistry or general biology will be that different at any decent college is fallacious.
The question would be one of over or under-performance. If ~3% of college graduates can be said to have attended prestige institutions, then this would need to be one of the bases for analysis.
Some colleges – including some with unrestricted committee letter policies – do in fact have medical school acceptance rates of over 90% for appilicants with GPAs of at least 3.5. Of the many qualities to consider when selecting a college, there’s no reason not to attach at least some weight to a numerical factor such as this.
You need to find SUPPORTIVE colleges. Premed will be hard everywhere, but colleges that provide you with a special adviser in addition to your regular adviser, have plenty of support for all premed classes (free tutors, centers, weekly study group, learning assistants… “support” can take many forms), and are cooperative rather than competitive, are good choices.
(* note: avoid schools where you don’t have a personal adviser!)
If you want to go OOS, there are plenty of schools that would be interested in a high-stats students. Your parents’ ability to pay will be factored in, but think about:
Honors College at Pitt, UMass, UAlabama (full tuition scholarship for ACT 32), ASU Barrett… Penn State Schreyer, if you can get in?
Dickinson, Denison, Muhlenberg, Rhodes, St Olaf… Essentially, LACs ranked between 35 to 65 would be ideal places.
If you want California, Pitzer and Occidental would be good choices (Scripps if you’re a girl.)
Which colleges? In particular, which colleges have significantly higher rates of medical school admission then shown by the table at https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf for students in the given GPA and MCAT score ranges?
“which colleges have significantly higher rates of medical school admission than shown . . . for students in the given GPA and MCAT score ranges?” (#17)
In terms of how the question is worded, possibly none. My comment may apply only to some colleges at which a 3.5+ GPA has a strong tendency to correspond with high MCAT scores.
Which colleges are you referring to?