Preferential Aid Package Schools Question

Paying for College
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<p>Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to explain the situation as fully as possible. </p>

<p>I have a 15 year old brother who is a sophomore in High School (he has fall birthday and started school earlier than usual). I promised my mom to find out about schools which will offer decent aid to a him.</p>

<p>Here is a little background.</p>

<p>My brother has a very high GPA (almost 4.0 unweighted). He is taking a full class load at his HS, including 2 AP classes this year as well as Calculus class through state flagship (through special program offered to selected high-schoolers). </p>

<p>He also does all the right stuff outside of school: EC and Volunteering.</p>

<p>As a sophomore he took PSAT (according to him, he was forced to by his GC) and got 218. If he gets this score next year as a junior, then he has a decent chance of becoming NMSF because we live in MN.</p>

<p>My parents are 60 (mom) and 65 (dad) years old and will have to continue to work for at least 5 more years so that my mom could get maximum SS. They have to do it, because we moved to US 18 years ago with nothing and they had to start all over again.</p>

<p>My mom makes a little less then 50K and my dad makes around 70k depending on the year (because of overtime and shift differential it varies). My mom started to make more than 40K only 5 years ago, before that she was making 20k-35K (she was steadily rising through the ranks). My dad has been making his salary for the last 15 years (while his base pay increased, the overtime decreased). Prior to that he was delivering pizza and working for $6 per hour at a factory.</p>

<p>Because my parents had to start over 18 years ago, most of their money they put aside go to 401K and IRA. They have very small regular savings, which they usually use for large house repairs (like drive-way, etc.). </p>

<p>I talked to my mom and she said that they can pay around 15K per year for my brother's college without jeopardizing their retirement goals. 15K plus Stafford and my brother's expected part-time earnings will be enough to cover state flagship and reciprocity school in WI. If he gets any merit then he will reduce borrowing.</p>

<p>However, the situation at home is really bad and my brother needs to get away as far as possible. If he stays in MN, he will have to stay with my parents and he simply cannot because of his relationship with our father. Given the way WI and MN give out merit aid, it is most likely that our father will make him go to MN, because he is highly likely to receive merit from MN.</p>

<p>As a side note, I know that often on CC we give students hard time about wanting to get away. In my brother's situation, even my mom agrees that it will be better for everyone that he moves out of state. There is no physical abuse involved, but my father is just unbearable to live with - neither my sister nor I speak to him anymore - this is how bad the situation is. That being said, my brother does have 2 good local choices if nothing else pans out.</p>

<p>Because of my parents current earnings, my brother will not get need-based aid unless he gets accepted to HYPs. Even though he has the stats, he will not be accepted to HYPs as there is nothing special about him. He does not have a passion for anything other than parkor and anime, he does not even know what exactly he wants to study.</p>

<p>I am a big fan of LACs. I wish I could afford Harvey Mud when my son goes to college (and I wish he would get accepted there :)). I think my brother will be a good fit for LAC known for good science curriculum. What I am looking for are pointers to well-respected colleges that give merit aid or do preferential packaging (like NYU or BU) for kids with stats like my brother's. The aid does not have to be guaranteed - he will be applying to UofM and UofWi, so he will be all set if everything else falls through. </p>

<p>Thanks for all your help.</p>

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<p>First, I suggest he apply to HYPS, because you never know. He has his safeties, so why not try.</p>

<p>Second, have him concentrate on schools where he is in the tippy-top of the applicant pool. He would have a good chance at a number of schools. Once he has his scores & knows more of what he wants, he will be in a position to hone in on some particular schools.</p>

<p>In the meantime, make sure he has activities that show some type of passion (not just a bunch of random stuff to fill out a resume) - and leadership is helpful. His essay will be important, so anything he can do to sharpen his writing skills is good.</p>

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<p>Kelsmom,</p>

<p>thanks for the advice. ECs are especially hard for my brother because of Math program at the local flagship. It is like an EC in terms of how much extra time it takes (2 afternoons a week after school and many many hours of homework). As a result, he had a very hard time finding a club that will let him participate and miss some meetings. </p>

<p>He really wanted to join debate team, but his HS is known for debate and require everyday after school practice during competition season. My brother asked if they would make exception for him, but was told no.</p>

<p>He was able to do Science Bowl for 2 years and was able to join Mock Trial this year. Those are the only clubs that were willing to work with his schedule. All the clubs at his HS are very competitive regarding leadership positions, so without being able to commit all his time (because of the math program), he cannot really hold leadership position.</p>

<p>Also, I have seen advice about looking up the scores for tippy-top candidates, I have even given that advice before myself, but I have no idea how do look for that breakdown of scores. For example, I monitor admission stats at our local flagship (looking out for my son’s future), but the breakdown they give is not very helpful. For example, they say that 89% of admitted student to College of Science and Engineering had ACT score between 28 and 36. This is not really helpful, as there is a huge difference between getting 28 and getting 36. How would one go about getting a finer breakdown of stats of admitted students?</p>

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<p>Read through these two threads. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/52133-schools-known-good-merit-aid.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/52133-schools-known-good-merit-aid.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Your brother should be able to find several out of state schools that will provide enough merit aid based on his excellent stats. Encourage him to do well on the SAT and/or the ACT, too. Good luck!</p>

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<p>If he makes Natl Merit Scholar, this link might be helpful to him: </p>

<p><a href=“http://excelcolleg**********/pdf/scholarships.pdf%5B/url%5D”>http://excelcolleg**********/pdf/scholarships.pdf</a></p>

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<p>Since you seem to have a bit of time to dedicate to this, you also could read through these two older threads for research strategies. The specific scholarships mentioned may not exist any more, but the research techniques are timeless:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html#post3485476[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html#post3485476&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Your brother should also be talking with the directors of the math program he is enrolled in at the university. The faculty members there have friends and friends of friends who will have good ideas about colleges and universities that might admit him with enough money to make things workable.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the advice. I will definitely go over all these links during summer - it will be a good prep work for my son’s college too, who is only one year behind my brother.</p>

<p>I will advise my brother to talk to professors running math program at the flagship. Unfortunately I am not sure how helpful they are going to be regarding advice of affordable options. Whenever they advertize the program they talk about their grads matriculating at MIT as one of the choices. MIT does not offer any merit.</p>

<p>I am not sure how it is right now, but they used to say that this program was a sure path to MIT from our state. They start with about 500 kids studying Algebra and 5 years later end up with about 10-20 kids actually “graduating” from the program. My brother is in his 4th year and said there are about 30 kids left and he is not one of the smarter ones. He already had his final and will not be kicked out from the program (you have to maintain B or above), so if he does not fail his last year, he will “graduate” from the program. </p>

<p>Unfortunately while this program will definitely help my brother with admissions, based on the college list the program directors put on their presentation, they just go by college selectivity and don’t care about financial aid. It never hurts to ask though, so I will tell him to ask (if he will listen - he is a teenager and smarter than everyone else :)).</p>

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<p>If your brother gets high test scores or NMF status, he’ll have options to go away to school. I don’t think you have to worry about that.</p>

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<p>The Common Data Set is the best way to find out the stats for a school. You can usually find it by doing a search for Common Data Set on the school’s website, but sometimes it is hard to find. CC is one of the very best resources … if all else fails, ask on CC! :)</p>

<p>One of the issues my S ran into was his lack of EC’s. He DID do EC’s, but not all schools valued what he did (he writes, plays, records, and mixes music - but not in an “organized” forum). He had a 33 ACT, 3.8+ GPA, 6 AP’s … did not get into our state flagship. He got into other schools, with some merit, so it’s not like it held him back completely. It did hold him back in places where they have a set scoring system (our flagship - it’s an infamous system!), and in the one “top” school where he applied - because all they have is that app, and others looked better than he. That’s the way it is. So the moral is, look for places that will value what your brother brings to the table.</p>

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<p>Oh, I know exactly what you are taking about. The only two sports my son is interested in is Lacrosse (offered through school) and parkor/gymnastics.</p>

<p>Well, he can’t really do Lacrosse because of his size - he is skinny and short. He was taking Music Theory AP this year and he was the only one freshman in that class of seniors. He was asked by the school official in charge of AP tests if he was even in HS. </p>

<p>He cannot do gymnastics through school because they only have girls team in our state (and he would have been good at it - up until this year, since he was 3 years old, he was doing gymnastics). Parkor is not really official sport yet. Although he takes parkor lessons, I don’t think it will count for school admission. </p>

<p>My son also has been taken piano lessons since he was 5. According to his GC, it does not count either, even though my son practices almost every day.</p>

<p>I am a bit frustrated that the things my son loves “don’t count”. </p>

<p>And I would be beyond peeved if my child with the stats you reported would not get accepted to a flagship.</p>

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<p>Lerkin, If you like LACs, consider the ones that give HYPS type aid. Look at Williams (amazing Math and good sciences), Swarthmore (engineering and sciences), and Amherst.</p>

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<p>But just be aware that the only schools that give HYPS-type aid are–HYP&S. While the other full-need schools can be generous, these four have the super-aid formulas. We found that the difference in finaid offers from Y and Williams was considerable – about 10% of total income vs. 30%.</p>

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<p>Exactly. My parents would be elated if they only had to pay 10% of their income for my brother’s college. It would be cheaper than what they are ready to lay out. However, HYPS is a looooong shot and top LACs, while somewhat more realistic chance in terms of admission, will require 30% of income, which my parents are not prepared to do.</p>

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<p>Aim for National Merit to have options! Alabama, Oklahoma, etc.</p>

<p>Also, be sure he does NOT schedule too much his junior year. My son’s GPA has nosedived this year due to a combination of issues. The biggest issue was simply taking on too much and trying to balance the academics, ECs and sleep.</p>

<p>For LACs - In the $120k family income range, Haverford is suppose to be generous with FA. The Net Price Calculator is very kind. Many of the private schools do take parents’ ages into consideration.</p>

<p>Centre College in KY has a competitive full ride scholarship. Because it is not in a “popular” college state, the competition seems more favorable than other LACs my son has reviewed.</p>

<p>Juniatta in PA has a full tuition NMF scholarship (competitive, but from the limited info we have received seems a NMF gets it if they have shown consistent interest in the school since junior year).</p>

<p>Consider Pomona over Mudd for FA packaging. Pomona under $150K seems to offer roughly 15-18% of income based on my LIMITED knowledge. Pomona has been a favorite of my son for 2 years, so I ask everyone I can the FA question for the school.</p>

<p>Your home state will be a plus at many LACs</p>

<p>Continually run the NPC for each school. Some schools NPC has changed for us in the last few months. I assume as the NPCs are now mandatory, some schools are proactively improving the NPC to include merit and ask more detailed questions.</p>

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<p>With your parents being able to contribute up to $15K a year, and his PSAT score and SAT/ACT scores are consistent/improved over soph. year results, he can have some very, very good options, particularly if he is interested in being a math major. </p>

<p>Math is one area where he might want to make sure that the LAC environment really will offer enough coursework at a high enough level given what he will have already completed by the time he finishes high school. The good news is that there are a number of state flagships with very strong graduate math departments and a wider range of undergraduate math classes than most LACs are able to offer. Schools seek undergraduate math majors. Some of these schools also have very good merit scholarships even for out-of-state students. U Wisc. Madison and U Minn Twin Cities both have top 20 grad programs, and both should be workable with on-campus residency within the $15K parent contribution, $2K student contribution from work, and possibly a small Stafford loan. I would think he would definitely get merit $ at U Minn.</p>

<p>He’ll have quite a few other options – he’s the kind of candidate who would benefit from applying fairly widely – he might get picked up by one of the lottery schools with fabulous F.A., and he should have a very good shot at high merit awards at a number of other schools. But…early is better. Way better, especially at public universities who have the most merit $ available for high stats OOS students in the early part of the admissions cycle. He needs to figure out how early he can apply to these schools, and do so, and not wait until after Thanksgiving of senior year. He should also be thinking about who will write his recommendations, especially if the math teachers who really know him are at the college. Do you think his counselor has a good grasp of where he’s at in math? Has he done any of the math competitions such as AMC?</p>

<p>You’re a very nice big sister.</p>

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<p>He did not participate in any math competitions, because he had to be on a Math team and it did not work out with his schedule. But I don’t think it matters. While he is doing OK in the program at the local flagship, he is no genius. He himself admitted that he is one of the worse kids left in that program. </p>

<p>Thanks for the compliment. I wish I could help him financially, but I doubt I will be able to do much, because my son is only one year behind my brother, and we recently had a huge financial setback which wiped out all our non-retirement savings and will make my son’s choices very limited at our income level - my son will be going to local flagship (and probably living at home).</p>

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<p>I am with Kelsmom on this case. It looks like he has some good safeties that are affordable in place, so he can go to town with HPY on his list. He certainly won’t get accepted if he does not give it a shot. Have you run numbers through calculators to see what kind of aid he may get at a some schools like Harvey Mudd that you feel may be a good match for him? </p>

<p>Any time you are looking for money, you need a varied batch of choices so that you don’t have all your eggs in one basket. So look for variety. BU with its preferential packaging might be one choice. Vandy with generous fin aid and some good merit another. I’ve seen a huge difference in merit/ aid packages among schools, even similar ones, so it is important to get that variety in there.</p>

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<p>UMich is not usually generous to OOS students. But neither are any number of schools that have been the Mother Lode to some student or other who got full need+ met. It really doesn’t matter what the average, usual awards are. What matters is how much your student gets. When a student makes up his list of schools, and if he does need money to make it go, after having a couple of sure things that are affordable, he should pick some schools he really wants and some that are similar but where his chances of getting grants are higher but admissions surer. THat way he is playing the odds with a good fall back position. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. But his downside is covered which is why he can afford to do this.</p>