Presidents Day/week college tour?

Chedva · February 24, 2006, 9:34pm

Trip 2 - Skidmore

It was still cold in Saratoga Springs when we toured Skidmore. We didn't hear as much about the quirkiness of the school as I had anticipated. The college is cute, but very small. D thought she could enjoy herself at Skidmore, but wasn't terribly enthused. She preferred Brandeis' easy access to a city; Saratoga may get a lot of performances but it's still a small town, and Albany doesn't cut it for her either (she had spent a summer there). She felt that Skidmore wasn't much bigger than her summer camp - too small.

Chedva · February 24, 2006, 9:52pm

Trip 3 - Vassar

I'm in trouble now - D loved Vassar. It's an absolutely beautiful campus, and everyone was extremely friendly. She loved the fact that most classes are discussion based and interactive, rather than lecture. Our tour guide told us that his Intro Bio class had 18 students, which is extremely rare in other schools as far as I can tell. As with Skidmore, she loved that anyone can take anything.

One story - Vassar's website says that visitors can sit in on a class with 7-10 days' notice. D wanted to take a dance class but not alone. On Sunday, we finalized plans for a friend to come with her, and she would take the class. On Monday (President's Day), I called Admissions and asked if they could take the class. They said no, professors really want 10 days notice. I said fine, but can they watch one? They said they didn't know and I should call the Dance Department directly. I did and asked if they could watch a class. The woman on the other end of the phone said, "Sure, but don't they want to take one?" So I set it up for them to take an Intermediate Ballet class, which as it turns out was taught by a guest instructor, the director of the ABT Studio company! It was above their level, but the girls enjoyed it. It was particularly nice for them to know that they could learn and improve there, given that there is no dance major at Vassar. We also met with the associate professor of the department who was very nice to the girls and answered all sorts of questions - he really was selling the department to us!

The dance department is moving into renovated quarters in May, which will then include 3 totally renovated studios, and a large theater specifically designed and designated for dance. The new space certainly looks beautiful on paper.

The other girl with us is a singer and wanted to know about the voice program, which wasn't mentioned much during the tour. We walked into the Music department and stood around near an office where the professor was on the phone. He saw us, and after a few minutes told the person on the other end that there were visitors, so he'd call back. The professor was the head of the Music Department, and spent a good 10 minutes with us and another prospect answering questions. Totally unexpected. He was extremely gracious. And it didn't hurt that the department is housed in a castle!

Vassar has no merit scholarships and is not need-blind, although it does guarantee 100% of demonstrated need if accepted. (By the way, both Brandeis and Skidmore are also need-sensitive, which Brandeis explained this way: When they get down to the "maybe" candidates, they will look at the financial obligation the college would face when making the admission decisions.)

Vassar has ED I (11/15) and ED II (1/1). It admits about 40% of its early decision applicants and 22% of its regular decision applicants.

While we're going to continue looking, Vassar is now #1 on the list, and a likely ED school.

mootmom · February 24, 2006, 10:33pm

I can report on our trips this week to CalPoly SLO, UC Santa Cruz, and UC Davis, if anyone is interested. I might do it in a less "mysterious" thread, though. (How about if we start a trip report thread?)

lderochi · February 24, 2006, 11:06pm

Will Cross-Post In A New Thread

Elon Visit by DS and DW

Never underestimate the effect of weather. It was apparently a drop-dead gorgeous day, and as a consequence Elon presented itself well. Campus was outstanding -- beautiful, clean and very "college feel". The surrounding Town of Elon also had a collegetown feel to it, which is something my son is looking for. Typical presentation, and for my son redundant. They basically went through the same presentation that we saw on a traveling visit to our area last month. Highlights: Elon's reputation (and selectivity) are rapidly increasing. [They aren't blowing smoke on this one -- I have copies of the fact books going back 15 years. As recent as 8 years ago the average gpa was in the 3.2 range, and the average SAT was just barely above 1000 (recentered score), and the acceptance rate was 70% plus. Most recent class was at 3.72/1237/42%]. Buildings were for the most part Georgian-style red brick. A huge new business school building will be opening next year.

A few odds and ends. Elon stil hasn't decided how they will be using the writing portion of the SAT/ACT. Doubtful they will have a policy by next year's admission cycle. Most important admissions factors are GPA/Test Scores/Course rigor. No surprise there. Applicant interest is "considered" according to the CDS.

Very big on the "engaged learning" concept, which probably has as many definitions as there are schools that talk about it. For Elon, I would say it is a focus on the First Year Experience and a strong push to have students study abroad (most do, at least for a Summer Term).

Dorms were average, nothing really stood out. Dining options were impressive -- several different places to eat on-campus, and several off-campus places have an agreement with the school to accept Elon cards -- so a pretty good range of choices, from healthy to traditional to fast food to junk.

Elon has a reputation for preppy/greek/wealthy students. Honestly, my son did not pick up on that. And I think he would. Greeks are definitely a higher percentage than at many schools (30%), but not nearly as high as schools like DePauw or Washington & Lee. Standard company line -- we have Greeks, but it's no big deal if you join or not. Seemed to be true, at least at first glance.

Library was good size, not crowded. Classroom buildings were pretty impressive inside in terms of technology and good use of space. Good size gym/workout facility. Not overwhelming like some of the newer facilities we've seen, but okay.

Elon's tuition is somewhat less than other comparable private southern colleges and small universities. Approx $25K for tuition/room and board/fees. But they also don't give out as much in merit-based award. Fellows scholarships range from $3-6K per year. There are a few bigger ticket awards, but not many. Also doesn't meet full need. So -- the sticker price is good, but needs to be evaluated carefully when comparing to other schools that may well be more generous. Not surprisingly, diversity could be better.

Result of visit -- Elon is at top of the list right now, after he's visited a total of 9 schools since last year. A lot to like about this school. Oh, and for those interested there is a nearby volunteer fire and rescue squad that actively accepts student volunteers. For the S, that's an important consideration.

NJres · February 25, 2006, 11:29am

Ok, we are back and here's where we were:
Lafayette College, Easton PA, 2,346 undergrads; Top LACs, #27
Lehigh University, Bethlehem PA, 4,577 undergrad, 2064 grad, National Universities #32
Dickinson College, Carlisle PA 2,321 undergrad Top LACs #45
Gettysburg College, Gettysburg PA 2,466 undergrad Top LACs #47
Franklin and Marshall College, Lancaster PA 1,972 undergrad, Top LACs #39
Loyola College of Maryland, Baltimore MD 3,501 undergrad, 2,630 grad, Masters U north #3

All were beautiful campuses. Lovely old buildings, either brick or stone, some ivy covered walls. Uniformly nice facilities. Proud of their small class size, low student/faculty ratios, study abroad programs. What distinguishes these schools?

Lafayette college Less than 1 hour drive for us. High on a hill overlooking Easton PA. The campus itself is relatively flat, and feels isolated from the town below. Info session plus tour. Huge crowd at info session SRO, Was surprised at the high % of the class taken ED (40%?) and something else which I cant remember. Gratuitous mention of Ivy League (origin of Patriot League) and Harvard (cant even recall context). Around 40 on our tour! Tour guide was a psych/econ major presented the campus very well. Did we see a cafeteria? A dorm? In spite of being put off a little by info session overall impression is very positive. [Serendipity: After tour we wandered down into Easton looking for a place to eat. Stumbled into a fantastic little restaurant, just opened, on their first day serving the public. Chatted with owner and his father. Food (especially pizza) was great!]
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lafayette1.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lafayette1.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lafayette3.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lafayette3.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lafayette4.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lafayette4.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lafayette5.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lafayette5.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lafayette6.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lafayette6.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lafayette7.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lafayette7.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lafayette12.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lafayette12.JPG</a> library
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lafayette14.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lafayette14.JPG</a>

Lehigh University - On the side of a hill stretching above Bethlehem PA. A large info session but much bigger school is better able to handle the crowds. Director of admissions is very impressive, gives a great presentation. 1450 SATs and a C average is NOT getting you in to Lehigh. Merit awards are first year only and are designed to get you to attend Lehigh over the (un-named) schools competing for top talent. A large tour, guide is a mechanical engineering major (young lady), does a great job. The campus is on a hill, so you do have to walk up and down hill to get around. Of course, tour guide says you get used to it and it is not a problem. Also the 50% Greek means you can join if you want or stay out if you want, no problem either way. Funny how the tour guides will always discount the things that parents are most concerned about. 30 people on a tour crowding into a small dorm hallway. Does it really smell like vomit? This is a girls floor! One parent is overheard exiting the dorm room: sprinkler, yes, smoke alarm, yes These folks are doing the due diligence! Another asks if there is really no partying allowed in the dorms. An article in the school newspaper protests a 7% hike in tuition. On a base of $40k that means a $3k increase! yikes! My son seems to like it, but I am not thrilled.
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lehigh19.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lehigh19.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lehigh27.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lehigh27.JPG</a> on a hill
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/lehigh33.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/lehigh33.JPG</a>

Dickinson College, Carlisle PA. I have attended many car shows at Carlisle and wife is a Dickinson alum, so we try to play down our heavy pro-Dickinson bias. Son senses it anyway, and puts Dickinson at the bottom of his list. Info session + tour. Info session covers the usual, now familiar topics. Admissions officer recommends staying in touch as a show of interest. Dont send an email every week for no reason, but do communicate any new info or changes as the year progresses. Campus looks beautiful, historic Carlisle is walking distance, Lots of trees, gray stone. Article in school paper says students had so much work they couldn't watch the winter Olympics. Son is worried. My bias, reinforced by the tour: Seems like a very nice college. Good academics, nice social scene (Greek life less than 25%), beautiful campus, nice facilities, reasonable distance from home.
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/dickinson35.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/dickinson35.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/dickinson37.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/dickinson37.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/dickinson40.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/dickinson40.JPG</a> library

Gettysburg College, Gettysburg PA. Finally we are losing the hoards of other NJres(idents) likewise off for the week and touring colleges. Acknowledged rival of Dickinson, but some of the lines seem to come verbatim from the Dickinson tour. No info session, just a (small) tour. Beautiful flat campus. Nothing really stands out. I am getting college-fatigue. S senses a less rigorous academic life (probably not accurate, but no info session all we have is our tour guide) and warms up to this campus. School newspaper complains that college pres is not accessible in spite of her scheduling open office hours. Our tour guide is editor of the online school newspaper (separate from the print version) <a href="http://www.gburgforum.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.gburgforum.com/</a>

Loyola College, Baltimore MD. Bigger than the LACs, less selective, accepts 60% of applicants. Info session is well attended, and tour is maybe 10 of us. Another beautiful campus, inside the Baltimore city limits but does not feel urban at all. Campus does not feel any bigger than the smaller LACs we have visited. It is a Catholic school. They strive for diversity, but tour guide says 80% of the student body is Catholic. School newspaper running a series of articles about conflict between students and campus police. Sounds ugly, but I dont ask about it. S seems to like this school also.

<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/loyola74.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/loyola74.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/loyola77.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/loyola77.JPG</a>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Enjres/loyola78.JPG%5B/url%5D">http://home.comcast.net/~njres/loyola78.JPG</a>

[Serendipity: We stayed at a very nice Embassy Suites hotel with a huge atrium and glass elevators. We shared an elevator with some young ladies who were on the visiting Niagra U basketball team, playing Loyola the next day. I told them we were visiting Loyola (boooo). At the end of our tour we peaked in the arena where the Niagra team was practicing. One girl yelled across the large arena: HEY, ITS THE ELEVATOR PEOPLE That was funny! Later that evening the Niagra team (having a tough year) was crushed by Loyola (having a good year), 76-44. (bonus fun fact: Wife reads last night that the lovely twin bounced from American Idol the other night was captain of her Niagra U b-ball team! Sigh... if I had only known...)

6 schools visited. S may apply to 4 or 5.

worrywart · February 25, 2006, 3:22pm

Thanks for reporting back, NJres. (Incidentally, until this last post, I didn't realize that you're male.)

NJres · February 25, 2006, 4:57pm

So now you think I'm male because I have a wife and a son?

SouthJerseyChessMom · February 25, 2006, 8:20pm

great info thanks NJres, am passing this along

Papa_Chicken · February 27, 2006, 7:18am

likewise NJ...great pics

& Chevda-- we are trying to norrow down a visit to either Skidmore or Vassar later this spring....sounds like Vassar is a big winner in your family. Did Skidmore just not feel right, or was it just bad day? You mentioned that Skidmore was very small....I thought Skidmore & Vassar had about the same student population....did the layout of the campus make it feel smaller?

weenie · February 27, 2006, 7:42am

mootmom:
Yes! Post your reports. I think it is best if you start them in a new thread and then LINK it to the Master List at the top of the Parents Forum page.

unbelievablem · February 27, 2006, 9:34am

papa chicken -- we also visited skidmore and vassar - yes they have about the same student population, but the campuses feel VERY different. vassar's is much more open and spread out. skidmore is very tree-filled - i don't recall open patches of grass, but we were there on a rainy day which could affect my recall. also many of the academic buildings at skidmore are connected -- took us a while to realize that they were considered "separate" halls - i think that really contributed to a feeling that the campus wasn't very large. acreagewise, i don't know how the two campuses compare - skidmore is probably bigger than it feels since there were some buildings further away from others - eg, admissions is across the street from th main part of campus and it was a decent walk from there to the rest of campus -- but the main hub of the campus just felt very compact.

Chedva · February 27, 2006, 9:46am

Thanks, unbelievablem - we also got the same impression: Skidmore is very compact. Vassar's not huge, but I think since it has multiple quads, it feels expansive. The other thing that really differentiated them is how much older Vassar is (1880's I believe). D loved all the old buildings, and all the brick & stone work. Skidmore is less than 100 years old, so it looks really different.

One other factor - D spent 3 weeks at Cornell this summer - now THAT's a huge campus (too huge). Skidmore felt like a postage stamp in comparison, and as she said, it felt about the size of her summer arts camp. And I think too country for her.

And of course we can't discount that it might just have been a bad day. Saratoga Springs had lost all power from Friday to Monday and we showed up on Tuesday. The inn where we had the info session still didn't have power, so no Powerpoint or anything else.

Skidmore is definitely still on the list; just not as high as Vassar.

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