<p>So hypothetically my daughter wants to do pr/mktg communications/advertising/publishiong in NYC after college. Graduate school a possiblitiy, but p/t.</p>
<p>Schools:
Let's say an ivy with an english degree= $50M/ year
NYU in music business or communications with strong internships= $50M/year
BU or Syracuse in communications with out-of-NYC internships=$50M/year</p>
<p>For NYU, Syracuse, BU perhaps some merit $ (if unbelievable lucky), but I'd assume not much (-5 to 10M max)</p>
<p>Muhlenberg with double major let's say english/ business/communications as choices=$25M per year. Let's assume she's lucky and gets full amt of merit/ talent $ they offer.</p>
<p>Indepenedent of schools, we have some connections which might help with getting first paying job.</p>
<p>No financial aid, but paying $50 M will NOT be easy! Do you go with the half price 2nd tier school?</p>
<p>You slapped/snapped first, now didn't you? ;) I'm just a responder.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Networking is a very important life skill and that is the point, with proof, regarding my post about d job offers.
[/quote]
Proof? LOL. What proof? The lawyer thing didn't happen appie. It just didn't happen and it's just parental ego gone wild or you are the single most gullible person on the planet. </p>
<p>I don't rank things the way you do BTW. With your power and connects you couldn't buy your kid in , could you? I bet that just infuriates you doesn't it?</p>
<p>you don't understand, my d was the lead attorney on a national level mock trial team. most national level mock trial attrorneys (at 17 and 18 years old) blow away over half of the working trial attorneys out there. anyway what i'm suggesting is not uncommon, the really bright top achieving kids in my community have in-roads and out right offers in to legal, medical, and business firms when they get out of graduate school.</p>
<p>What I'm saying here is nothing new, it's obvious to most people. Plumber's sons often become plumbers, lawyer's sons lawyers, the OP wanted to know if their son or daughter would have advantages by going to an elite and the answer is YES if they know how to take advantage of it.</p>
<p>why is this such a contentious notion?</p>
<p>btw: plumber's sons often make more money than lawyers sons:)</p>
<p>
[quote]
the really bright top achieving kids in my community have in-roads and out right offers in to legal, medical, and business firms when they get out of graduate school.
[/quote]
I believe that applies to every community. Nothing new there. </p>
<p>I'm not questioning the value of networking. I'm questioning the assertion that someone seriously "offered" a high school kid a law job. Your kid, any kid. I didn't attack you. I questioned/attacked what you said. You made it personal. (But hey. If that's where you wanted to go, who am I to complain? I can play that way , too.;))</p>
<p>It's like my cardio-thoracic surgeon friend telling my D they'd "love to have her " when she gets out of med school. It don't mean diddly. They are just being nice.</p>
<p>i still don't understand why this is so hard to accept. would you believe the local mechanic saying to a kid in the neighborhood, “when you get out of trade school I'll give you a job in my shop". is that believable?</p>
<p>OK, same thing happens in all walks of life, including law firms.</p>
<p>this is real straight forward thought. And since the OP was asking the question we can assume that maybe the OP is from a neighborhood full of shops not firms and so the OP wants to know will there be more opportunities such as maybe law firms (whatever) at an elite and again the answer is YES if you know how to network.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: working at a mechanics shop can be a great career and highly profitable! My UCLA buddies are auto mechanics! And they're smiling all the way to the bank!</p>
<p>
[quote]
the really bright top achieving kids in my community have in-roads and out right offers in to legal, medical, and business firms when they get out of graduate school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What I'm getting from this is not the importance of networking or connections but of being high-achieving and thus coming to the attention early on of potential recruiters.
One could also conclude that geography is important, as these potential recruiters are more likely to be found in large urban centers such as LA.
Summer internships are one way of attracting the attention of potential recruiters.</p>
<p>i'm not suggesting anything is guarateed in life, and that's great your d has a doctor group that would like her. and if she goes that route in life they absolutely may want her and because of that "relationship" you and she have with the doctor's group she's better positioned then some unknown intern applying cold. </p>
<p>so we're in agreement that this is common. short of you coming over for dinner you'll just have to take my word that real and sincere offers are extended to top performing kids all the time. Now that doesn't mean they can come back as crack addicts and get the job in 6 years, they still have to work hard as udergrads and grad students.</p>
<p>You're still not getting it. Maybe you are the single most gullible person on the planet. ;) If my D comes back to those folks in 10-12 years, they won't be looking at it as "We offered her a job ten years ago. Guess we are bound (by contract or even honor) to hire her. " They are just being complimentary in the highest way they know how to a kid who impressed them. There is no job. There is no "offer". There can be no "acceptance".</p>
<p>appstressin: I'm a little confused by your logic here. Now why is it that you believe these sorts of "networking" opportunities would <em>not</em> be available at a "non-elite" school? My other question is . . . remind me again how we are defining "elite" here? </p>
<p>marite: I understand your logic; however, the OP is talking about Chapel Hill (vs some as yet unnamed "elite" private school). So while I can believe that potential recruiters <em>may</em> be more likely found in large urban centers, Chapel Hill, the OP's school in question (and one of 3 major and well-respected universities all nearly next door to each other), is located smack in the middle of one of the major research areas in the U.S. (Research Triangle Park). RTP casts a long shadow and covers a broad/wide range of research fields. Internships and other opportunities abound for students there (and that most definitely includes undergraduates). I'm confident potential recruiters are not an issue in this particular case.</p>
<p>Yes, I was not referring to UNC-CH in this instance, but to somewhat isolated, small, though prestigious LACs. Personally, I think UNC-CH is very good value (said so on the first page of this thread!) I was responding to appstressin.</p>
<p>high achieving and have the social networking skill aka you can sell yourself. good trial attorneys are able to be "liked" by the judge and jury. They win more cases. Likeability is the outcome of good networking and sales skills. You need both if your goal is to operate in the top echelons of any field.</p>
<p>This brings up another topic I find interesting, which is this: Is the age of “becoming an adult” (adult responsibilities, adult ideas, etc.) getting lower and lower due to global competition. It seems to me that in the 70’s you had until your mid to late 20’s “to figure things out” but today kids are engaging n “junior law, medicine, biz through clubs, camps, and academic enrichment programs in their teens. And the driving force behind this is the community (both parents and kids) desire to get in to top schools because you need top schools to get the good jobs because there are fewer and fewer good jobs because of global competition (either your competing with a foreigner for the US based job or the job has gone offshore so there are fewer opportunities).</p>
<p>Doesn’t global competition trickle down to create pressure to “get ahead” earlier and earlier?</p>
<p>I hesitate to weigh in here, but the idea that only the "elitist" college students get the best offers is preposterous. </p>
<p>My niece, a very good student at UIUC, turned down an offer for a very prestigious internship in NYC at a Fortune 50 company and got a phone call asking why? She said she got a better offer with better money and a clearly defined job that matched her interests back here in the mild mannered Midwest. They counteroffered with more $$$ and a more specific job assignment. </p>
<p>Darn it, I just hate it when a hick gets taken by those big shots on the East Coast. (For the ultrasensitive, this last comment is "tongue-in-cheek" sarcasm.)</p>
<p>Folks lighten up. Great students, wherever they are, can and will find great opportunities. Yes, the elitists will get exposure to more offers, but State U hicks can do just as well if they know what they want and are not afraid to go get it.</p>
<p>jack: i think they are available at any top school.</p>
<p>"elite" came from the OP or other posts and I think some people associate that word with ivy or priveledge in the sense that something other than objective performance got you in. i was using it as synonymous with top. although i don't think elite is a dirty word a lot of leftcoast people do.</p>
<p>i think the networking opps at probably the top 50 schools in the country are excellent, with the opps being different based on the schools location and focus.</p>
<p>However in re-reading OP and follow up posts it sounds like he’s looking for a particular “pay-off” by choosing an ivy over chapel hill. What can you say? The life pay off will be different but anybodies guess if it’s better. My UCLA mechanics are really happy! And a lot of CC people don’t consider UCLA a top school or elite. Now there’s an interesting subject, labeling UCLA or Cal elite.</p>
<p>UIUC is not a small LAC in an isolated place. H and I spent a year there, way back. And although Urbana-Champaign isn't exactly Chicago, the campus is large enough to tempt recruiters, and the caliber of the top students high enough for the recruiters to make offers.
In terms of recruiting, I don't think it's state U vs. top privates. It has to do with the particular interests of the recruiters, the size and location of the school. I'd say, for example, that an RPI student is more likely to attract the attention of engineering firms than a Harvard student.</p>
<p>With missing information (which doesn't stop professors :)), I am confident that more students in this country would rather go to UCLA than Harvard.</p>
<p>People can argue about the reasons, and the caliber of students, and whatever, but I am confident that my confidence in the above statement is well founded. :)</p>
<p>i can only assume you're not in a big city so these "opportunities" I refer to are not apparent in your community. All the more reason that this tread is important because the OP may be from a similar community and is asking will my kid have more life opportunities at an "elite" school? And again I say to him YES, but as Jack pointed out we should extend that to chapel hill as well as other top schools. and i'm sure there are plenty of opps at the other 4000 accredited schools in the US, but if your goal is to get introductions, internships, and network in to top professional firms in the country you have more opportunity at a top 50 school, this seems painfully obvious.</p>
<p>also as Martis pointed out I'm talking about very high achieving kids, (for instance the top 10 percent from a HS that send 100% of sb to college and 80% of those to top 50 schools).</p>
<p>and i'm sorry it bothers you so much that hard working smart HS kids (this top 10%) can get job offers and here's the real shocker for you (and also VERY common) my d already works at the law firm, she took the job and is doing case preparation work. It gets better a lot of firms will give you flex time and even partially pay for you to go to law school.</p>
<p>appie, I'm not bothered by anything the top 10% of real high schoolers do. In fact, I'm not bothered by anything the top 1/2 of 1% them do, either. ;)</p>
<p>I am sure having connections wouldn't hurt but I think in the discussion in this thread of unc (state uni with a med school) vs. an expensive "prestigious" school a difficult choice would be had.</p>
<p>Chapel Hill has a great med school and gives priority to in-state students. And they continually reminded son when he was doing research there last summer that his GPA, MCAT score and internship/research were what they were looking for, not so much where he went to school. Same was told to him when he worked at Duke's Comprehensive Cancer Center the summer previous. He did discuss his choices/options for undergrad with the dean at carolina med when he was trying to decide on schools last year. And the results of that discussion were very interesting, which led him to the school he eventually ended up at.</p>
<p>They didn't look at it so much as prestige vs. cheap but rather where he was best suited academically and what the school (med) would want to see him getting out of the experience. Same is true for his sis currently at an OOS uni after declining an ivy acceptance and not for economic reasons.</p>
<p>Connections in the sense of where you can seek opportunities outside the classroom in a research or clinic setting. Also at play would be what type of medicine, that too can make a difference.</p>
<p>I guess us rural folks don't live in the real world. Funny I like it a lot better than the urban Northeast area I grew up and went to college in. Just goes to show, what do I know.</p>