<p>amb3r, FCY: some interesting comments there. I don't remember exactly where, but I recently read an article about the % of admissions to highly selective schools that are not based on an individual's intellectual merit and achievements. The motivation for the article was to debunk the idea that racial/ethnic quotas were particularly significant as compared to other factors, so take it with a grain of salt. There was some uncertainty about this, since I guess admissions departments are sensitive (and secretive) about these issues, but I seem to recall that the estimates ranged up to 20% or so (don't quote me!). Most common categories of these "special" admissions: legacies; athletes, particularly female athletes who can help the schools satisfy Title IX issues; "under-represented" racial and ethnic groups; and, it was suggested, some children of the super-rich (shady quid pro quos involving lots of cash payments were hinted at in the article). If the story in this article is essentially accurate, then in a way you are both right- of course, even the 20% will include some highly capable students. But, from personal experience, I can also tell you if you want to go Harvard, you might be better off studying hockey instead of history.</p>
<p>prestige is nothing. Thirst is everything. Obey your thirst.</p>
<p>Right, weldon - I'm not saying that everyone at Harvard got in because they're rich. I'm saying that it's a myth that everyone at Harvard is an academic super-achiever. :)</p>
<p>I absolutely agree. I bet that the majority of the 20% of 'special cases' weldon cites are sports recruits, minorities, and legacies. The number of students who are accepted because daddy is rich enough to donate a building is pretty much insignificant. Just think about it, if Harvard admitted just 5 of these 'rich kids' every year, they'd have 50 new buildings in a decade... hahaha. Er.. maybe that reasoning's a bit off. What seems a certainty is that there's probably only like 2 or 3 rich kids admitted to each of HYPMS every year.</p>
<p>I think you are all bringing up really valid points. But like my parents keep on telling me, a degree doesn't entitle you to anything... you have to be able to work. I was at a bookstore the other day, and was reading a book about recuting out of college for business. The funny thing was that every school i flipped to that was really prestigiou, the recruiters made comments about that negativly impacting their view on them. So yes, getting your degree from a nice 4 year college is always going to look good. I just don't think there is that big of a difference between Santa Clara University and Berkeley- in fact I bet i'll get a better education at SCU.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I just don't think there is that big of a difference between Santa Clara University and Berkeley- in fact I bet i'll get a better education at SCU.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not necessarily. Compare their undergrad degrees in business, for example. Between Haas (Cal) and Leavey (SCU), if you were to compare quality of students, quality of faculty, quality (and selectivity) companies that recruit there, and perhaps the relative "feeder" status to some of the top business schools, I'm willing to bet that Haas grads come out on top. By far.
Besides, you are probably more likely to be biased towards SCU because that's one of your target schools.</p>
<p>Let's be less severe, though.</p>
<p>What about Berkeley vs. USC? Or maybe even Berkeley vs. BU? Then it gets interesting.</p>
<p>The notion of Prestige does not apply outside the Ivy League + MIT + Stanford + maybe Duke.</p>
<p>If you go to these schools, although by no means a guaranteed free ride in life, you will undoubtedly make many many friends that will eventually be in very high positions in every industry and government. PRESTIGE is synonymous with connections- and those of you in business or contemplating business (i.e banking) should know that networking + brand name is the only thing that matters.</p>
<p>At the law school level, trying to land BIGLAW, PRESTIGE is the ONLY thing that matters. (and your gpa to a lesser extent). But you will never land a BIGLAW job outside the T14. </p>
<p>So yes. PRESTIGE MATTERS.</p>
<p>truazn8948532,</p>
<p>What a narrow view.</p>
<p>You're telling me that Caltech, Berkeley, Chicago, Northwestern, and JHU have no prestige?</p>
<p>BTW, you're wrong about biglaw. If you want sources, I know a few in biglaw who've personally told me that t14 = biglaw is a myth.</p>
<p>List</a> of Georgetown University alumni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
truanz-
Let me have some fun with you-</p>
<p>Based on your post, I would advise you to stay out of any Georgetown run country (Philippines, Jordan, Bosnia), trading block (European Commission which includes all the western European nations), or university (MIT). I would also get real nervous knowing that all your presciription drugs are approved by a Georgetown educated FDA Director and that a Georgetown degreed person has been nominated to be the IRS commissioner. And I hope none of your relatives are serving in the Georgetown led Department of Defense. I also hope that you don't have to drive through Indiana or New Hampshire with Georgetown educated governors in command of the state troopers.</p>
<p>I'm not going to get into this argument again (already did on the other thread), but I do disagree with this...</p>
<p>
[quote]
99/100 people would be more motivated if they were surrounded by driven geniuses than people who could care less.
[/quote]
That's not necessarily true. There are two types of students:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>STUDENT A: This student thrives in competitive environments where they can be challenged by others around them. For the sake of enriched learning, they'd rather be surrounded by academic equals who will push them to work harder and learn more. Student A likes to be "another fish in the superior pond", so to speak. </p></li>
<li><p>STUDENT B: This student thrives in an environment where they're at the top. Being a step ahead of others in class gives them the confidence to lead, as well as conviction in their ideas. This kind of student learns more effectively when they're feeling confident in their abilities. Student B prefers to be "the superior fish in just another pond".</p></li>
</ol>
<p>In any given high school, there are just as many Bs as As. Motivation isn't the same for everyone. Different types of people learn better in different environments.</p>
<p>truanz-</p>
<p>But don't feel so bad- if you do get a ticket or have tax trouble, just remember that you can take your case all the way to the Supreme Court where Georgetown is outnumbered 8 to 1.</p>
<p>Its all about "fit." Fit is subjective and involves a LOT of factors: academic, social, financial, geographical, ethnic, religious, etc.</p>
<p>Its a myth that kids with uber stats all go to the super elite schools. Kids with 2300+ SAT's go to first tier, second tier, third tier, state and private schools. </p>
<p>Go where you will be happy and thrive. That may be Harvard and that may be UC-Irvine or Iowa State.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Its all about "fit." Fit is subjective and involves a LOT of factors: academic, social, financial, geographical, ethnic, religious, etc.</p>
<p>Its a myth that kids with uber stats all go to the super elite schools. Kids with 2300+ SAT's go to first tier, second tier, third tier, state and private schools.
[/quote]
It is also a fact that by and large, students with "uber stats" are more likely to be found at the elite private/publics rather than second tier private/publics.
I agree that fit matters as well. I just think that all too often, it's used as an excuse by some individuals to cover up or justify the fact that they didn't (or couldn't) get into their (more selective) first choice program and ended up where they did.</p>
<p>For example, I applied to Harvard Business School but didn't get in. Instead, I attended and graduated from another well-regarded b-school. Did I choose to matriculate at my now alma mater because it was a better "fit" for me? No (although I absolutely loved my time there) - it was because I simply wasn't deemed to be competitive enough to get into HBS so I went with my next best option.<br>
There's no shame in owning up to certain harsh realities that there is always someone out there smarter, faster, better looking, richer, etc. than you.</p>