<p>I shae mcat2’s speculation that the “MIT effect” is really an “engineering effect”. Engineers tend to do somewhat less well in medical school than their grades and MCATs would predict, and I think admissions committees find them to be too quantitative, rather than humanistic. I am not claiming this makes sense, but it does seem to happen.</p>
<p>Very few people from MIT apply to medical school, by report the advising is not very good, and it is probably true that the rigorous, research-oriented science education from MIT is not ideal preparation for the “memorize and repeat” format of the MCAT, or for that matter medical school.</p>
<p>Your typical MIT student is probably too smart to be a doctor.</p>
<p>^^last time I checked, MIT’s SAT-CR was higher than Stanford’s (so I’m just guessing that they can read and write reasonably well)… And, doesn’t Frosh Chem include a lot of “physical” science?</p>
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<p>So are you suggesting that med schools are inclined to be biased against MIT grads? That they are somehow do not possess the innate “doctor level academic ability”?</p>
<p>Not academic ability. I think engineers, in general, are stereotyped as too quantitative, lacking empathy and the human touch. Add to that the general intimidation many people feel when confronted with those with high ability in math and hard science, and you get a bias against MIT students. NOT that they could not do the work in medical school, but that their personalities do not mesh with practicing medicine.</p>
<p>Note, I am not endorsing this view, but I have encountered it.</p>
<p>Another “MIT/engineering effect” that was often mentioned is that, just because of the high academic standard at MIT, it hurts their premed students. (Poor advising is another major one.) The reason is that the students are too busy with the course work to have time for developing other quality that is required for a successful premed.</p>
<p>I do not know whether the life science part of MIT is any different. A well-known phenomenon at a top engineering school (MIT, Cal Tech, CMU, Harvey Mudd) is that the engineering students are forced to team-work with each other by necessity, and many of the “design” courses are designed in such a way that it sucks up almost all of your time.</p>
<p>Regarding “MIT’s SAT-CR was higher than Stanford’s,” MIT’s “more meaningful” math test scores like USBMO may be even higher than Stanford’s. It is said that at that kind of math/science school, SAT level test scores are not a major criterion in admission. I know plenty of SAT-CR 800 scorers (or SAT-MATH) got rejected by MIT. Females do get a boost there though.</p>
<p>If either is poor: You’re in trouble High MCAT, mediocre GPA: Usually fine, especially if from a top school High GPA, mediocre MCAT: Usually in trouble.</p>
<p>For Top 10-ish med schools (and those that think they are ;))
For un-hooked , non-URM applicants
If either is poor: You’re in trouble
Top MCAT, Good GPA: Usually fine, especially if from a top school
Near perfect GPA, Top 10% MCAT: Usually in trouble, unless from a top school.</p>
<p>I’ve seen several big MCAT’s (above 36) get acceptances this cycle with below 3.7’s to top 30 schools that have wait-listed several near perfect GPA’s with top 10% MCAT scores.</p>
<p>^^Thanks all, maybe this will help assuage D1 who just took her physics lab final and was lamenting no being able to think on her feet very fast and running out of time :(. </p>
<p>Of course, the MCAT is still up for grabs, but she will take a prep course for it…someday.</p>
<p>^ I also heard that the physics hands-on lab final could be quite tormenting as the allocated time for each test taker is short.</p>
<p>BTW, did she happen to have a “bad” TA? It is rumored that the quality of the TAs could make a world of difference in the experience (esp. the physics lab). I heard that the things you learned in the lab have not much to do with the lecture of the same course. Sometimes, when the handout is not very well-written, a good TA could help interpret what they want from the students. A “bad” TA may just guess it together with the students as he himself may not be sure of it – kind of “the blind leads the blind” scene.</p>
<p>I could understand that some TA might not take the exact same lab when they were undergraduates (as very very few graduate students from that department were from the same college.) But some TAs may be on the borderline of being irresponsible - they themselves may not show any interests in learning the practical aspect in the physics labs.</p>
<p>Well…my words here may be too harsh on TAs here, as most TAs are very qualified/responsible. A good example is one of my child’s TAs, who is currently an MD/PhD student and have taken the same class before. The students learned a lot of basic stuff from her. This is a good preparation for picking up the more advanced stuff from the lecturers (6 lecturers?) who team-taught the class. The lecturers tend to be more interested in teaching the cutting-age topics related to their very specialized research areas than the basic stuff. Because my child’s TA is so good, the average of the midterm test for their section beats all other sections, including the sections consisting of graduate students only. This is a difference that a great TA can make! (Coincident or not, when a TA is from the professional school, he or she tends to be better. This happened to my child three times in the past.)</p>
<p>mcat2,
She actually had a good TA, so at least she’s done well generally and the problem is just the final. Truthfully, she’s been uncharacteristically on edge about tests this semester. I think she’s just taken too much on (heavy class load, EMT training, etc.) and hasn’t been able to spend as much time as usual studying for exams and as a result feels under prepared going into them. This next semester should be better, I hope!</p>
<p>I agree that TAs can make a big difference, and there is often a wide range in teaching abilities in the same course unfortunately.</p>
<p>In my child’s case, he happens to have one very heavy class this semester also - mostly because of the students in it, rather than the professor or the course materials. This class seems to be heavier than the cell bio he took years ago and gave him a lot of pressure (so many students in that class seems to be very good. Several of the students in that class seem to be destined to some top medical schools, if they could get a high MCAT score.)</p>
<p>For the cell bio, he could even skip the last two hourly quizzes without any adverse effect. I guess this was a kind of “pemed efficiency” game being played here – do not do extra work if it does not gain you any points sad but true. He told us that there are much easier ways to fulfill the premed requirements just before the fall started , but then he decided to go for this class … Well… He has grown and this is his choice and he takes the responsibility for his decision. We as parents just need to prepare a lot of band-aids should the child falls.</p>
sad but true. He told us that there are much easier ways to fulfill the premed requirements just before the fall started , but then he decided to go for this class … Well… He has grown and this is his choice and he takes the responsibility for his decision. We as parents just need to prepare a lot of band-aids should the child falls.</p>