<p>"I think that's a really ignorant statement about Berkeley. If anything there is a real sense of internationalism on campus."</p>
<p>I'm hardly "ignorant" about Berkeley. Not only am I aware of its "internationalism," I actively participate as an alum in various ways, on campus, and in my current position I interact with current undergrads, & regularly so. Please don't lecture to me about Berkeley. You have no idea as to my knowledge base. What you, however, apparently are "ignorant" of, is just how regionally diverse the Ivies can be, since they need not limit their admissions to in-States. And they do need-aid and gap-aid students from all economic walks of life. My D has far more exposure to a range of viewpoints in the East than she did at 3 summers in Berkeley.</p>
<p>Fabrizio, I disagree. You seem to argue that if a particular group, be it Asians, Rotarians, Utahns or whatever, should take it into their collective minds that they all want to go to Stanford, for example, it would it be unfair on Stanford's part to say - "No, we don't wat to become an all-Asian/Rotarian/Utahn school - we like to have a variety of people here. Why don't some of you guys go to Williams, or Yale, or Pomona, or Tufts, or Cal Tech, or UCLA instead? We'll take you, and you, and you, but even though the rest of you are qualified (as are most of the students we reject) we'll pass and let you go elsewhere."</p>
<p>I don't see that as a "double standard" - I see that as the colleges having their say in the process. As I've noted many times before - rejection from a particular "prestigious" college doesn't mean the kids will be denied a quality education - they will have the option of attending any of a number of other really, really great schools. </p>
<p>If Asians have beome "Ivy crazy" - and certainly some posts here on CC suggest that may be the case - it's not only "OK", but probably a community service to suggest that the Asian community as a whole widen its horizons and consider a more diverse set of educational options.</p>
<p>I find the racism expressed in this forum to be deplorable. And I don't mean racism against Asians. I mean racism against African Americans. Talk about a double standard: some posters say on the one hand that race shouldn't be considered in the "formula" while also expressing clear bias against African Americans. It seems to me that the same people arguing that it is wrong to be biased against Asians in the application process feel it is OK to be biased against African Americans in an anonymous Internet forum. Yuck.</p>
<p>Drosselmeier: thank you for your perspective. Your comments have been fascinating, well-expressed and much appreciated.</p>
<p>There are many reasons why colleges strive for diversity, and some of them are due to external pressures. Politicians and community leaders pressure colleges to have student bodies that resemble their communities. If affirmative action vanished, and colleges became almost entirely white and Asian, these colleges would have a rough time within their own communities.</p>
<p>I'm a bit wary of how I'm going to phrase this, especially since I've already received two warnings from mods.</p>
<p>Some users have stated that many Asians have too narrow of a college list. These users suggest Asians to expand their list to include LACs, state universities, etc.</p>
<p>Yet, a subset of that group supports telling "URMs" to apply to the schools in the "narrow" college list without mentioning any "alternatives."</p>
<p>To me, that's a double standard. Why are "alternatives" prescribed to only some students and not others?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Public schools are often denied or given funding by a vote, which can contribute to economic and social inequity.
[/quote]
Isleboy, the reality is very different. The courts have been demanding funding for poor districts. The poorest districts often spend double what middle class districts do. Wealthy districts are having their per pupil spending capped so as to not exceed the poor districts. No voters have a say about this. Unfunded mandates.</p>
<p>sly_vt, just so you don't think that we are all hypocrites, I am against any bias or prejuduce in favor of or against any race, or creed or religious. I, for one, want race neutral admissons and complete elimination of most affirmative action regarding any race or religion. You may not agree with me, but you have to admit that this policy is truly non-discriminatory.</p>
<p>If I had my way, college admissions would only receive information with the students gender, and social security number. No name, race, or picture or even an interview would be required for admission. At that point, colleges can then use all of the holistic admission criteria that they want.</p>
<p>I will admit that for those seeking athletic scholarships, they may have to send in their name and be interviewed and seen by the coach. However, that would be the choice of the applicant if they want to qualify for that type of scholarship.</p>
<p>taxguy, What would you propose for hs transcripts? There are many predominantly Caucasian, Asian, and African American high schools. HS names may give away probabilty regarding race and/or religion. Same with zip codes.</p>
<p>Taxguy, I'm sure you know how unworkable that "plan" is , dealing with schools that don't offer athletic/talent scholarships (like most of the ones we are discussing). Pretty hard to show them basketball tapes on my kid without them knowing she's the tall white girl #44. Same in debate , marching band, orchestra, drama, voice, equestrian, crew, wrestling, football, baseball, etc.</p>
<p>And pray tell, what do we do about interviews or even campus visits?</p>
<p>Drosselmeier, This may sound strange, however, I do believe that gender is important to college admission and more so than racial diversity for several reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It has been shown that females learn differently than males, which could be very useful to both sexes, and more importantly,</p></li>
<li><p>Based on other forum posting, kids tend to be happier when there exists a reasonably balanced class from a gender perspective. This results in less kids leaving the school and greater retention. Thus, I can at least acknowledge gender as being important to the holistic process. I don't know anyone who stays or leaves a college because it is too racially diverse or not enough racial diverse. I truly believe that a more anonymous admission process would achieve diversity anyway.
.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
[quote]
I don't know anyone who stays or leaves a college because it is too racially diverse or not enough racial diverse.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is simply not accurate. I know from personal experience that students do leave a campus that is not diverse enough. I will tell you that I know someone who felt so uncomfortable at a mostly white LAC that she was home nearly every weekend. She felt that she was stared at, and did not make many friends. She often felt as though she had nobody to eat with on campus.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't know anyone who stays or leaves a college because it is too racially diverse or not enough racial diverse.
[/quote]
I know my D ditched several schools off her list for a lack of geographic diversity in favor of schools she was admitted to with greater geographic diversity (and hence a more exciting feel to her) so I am sure others have valued other diversity issues as greatly. I'm positive some would be economic or racial diversity issues . I've seen plenty of posts suggesting such, from students and parents of all races and SES .</p>
<p>Of course someone who leaves campus b/c of a lack of diversity is a URM at that school (whatever their race is). In the case I was describing, the student is Asian.</p>
<p>"2. Based on other forum posting, kids tend to be happier when there exists a reasonably balanced class from a gender perspective. This results in less kids leaving the school and greater retention. Thus, I can at least acknowledge gender as being important to the holistic process. I don't know anyone who stays or leaves a college because it is too racially diverse or not enough racial diverse. I truly believe that a more anonymous admission process would achieve diversity anyway."</p>
<p>I knocked a few colleges off of my list for being "too white". The thought of going to a school composed entirely of other white or Asian east-coasters makes my head spin. So here's one student who would be unsatisfied.</p>
<p>It would be an interesting study to list in order of preference things that are important to the college decision process from great facilites, top faculty, research opportunities,scholarships offered, tuition, great research libraries,great dorms, racial diversity and other factors and see how it all stacks up. I bet this has been done somewhere.</p>
<p>My international boys want to attend large diverse universities in large ethnically diverse cities. They ditched the majority of US and UK college options to get access to that diversity, taxguy. That was teh absolute requirement on their list of priorities. They wouldn't consider spending four years in a non-diverse city or town.</p>
<p>Add two more students to your list of those you do now know--cyberly at least. Plus, add me to your list of parents willing to pay full freight to provide that experience.</p>