Princeton Athletic Director: Athletic Scholarships Indentured Servitude

Athletic Recruits
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<p>Here are comments from Princeton’s athletic director, Gary Walters:</p>

<p><a href="https://paw.princeton.edu/issues/2013/10/09/pages/5848/%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://paw.princeton.edu/issues/2013/10/09/pages/5848/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>“Walters’ enthusiasm, however, does not extend to the broader world of college sports. He is irked by conferences that, in the race for TV ratings and revenue, have expanded to other regions of the country, necessitating more travel and pulling student-athletes away from the classroom. Intensive off-season training also hurts the student experience, in his view. The Ivies allow 12 days of off-season practice, while most other schools use the NCAA maximum of 48. With that extra workload, full athletic scholarships have become a form of “indentured servitude,” he says.”</p>

<p>“The coach owns you,” Walters says. “You aren’t able to participate in the life of the college under those circumstances. You are there to fulfill your athletic potential, period.”</p>

<p>Walters isn’t worried about the Ivy League’s ability to stand apart, now or in the future. But simply making its own rules is not enough, he says: “We need to be more outspoken, as a league, about our model, because it’s the proper way to do things.”</p>

<hr>

<p>My notes: Walters hasn’t been devoid of contact with big-time programs, having served on the NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament Selection Committee, among numerous other things since he became athletic diector at Princeton in the 1990's.</p>

<p>By the way, the Patriot League limits off-season football practices to 15 days, which is similar to the Ivy League policy.</p>

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<p>Thanks for sharing. I agree with Mr Walters overall view of college athletics. I’m not sure I’d use the phrase indentured servitude to describe an athletes commitment to the school. I think it has more to do with NCAA policy & limitations, but that is for another day. For every athletic recruit out there, do your homework and know what you are getting into. I agree with his quote that “it is the proper way to do things”.</p>

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<p>Hahahahahaha. Either he’s blind or intentionally ignorant as to what is expected (albeit not required) of his athletes at Princeton. Sure, there are far less official practices. But there are no times where his athletes aren’t expected to be working out. Implied in his statement is that his athletes are studying during those days. The athletes are - but also working out as much as athletes at other schools.</p>

<p>Perhaps, if he really really worried about his student athletes, he would make sure, for example, that the buses used for long distance road trips would have electrical outlets so his athletes could do work. As it is, it’s hit or miss - some short trips have buses with outlets while long trips more often then not don’t. Perhaps, for example, tutoring would be easy to come by (as is routine at the indentured servitude schools).</p>

<p>In my sons sport, about the only thing different from a power schools schedule is fewer games over the season. That’s not because of fewer games in a week; it’s because the season begins two weeks later and ends two weeks sooner. My gosh, the way the weekends are structured the kids can’t get in much studying over the weekends. (For home weekends, report to the team breakfast at 800am, play until 5, then field maintenance and shower and unwind. For away weekends replace field maintenance with travel - which begins Friday late afternoon.)</p>

<p>My opinion, yes, it’s a bit easier, but the school can make it better.</p>

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<p>OK without even reading the article</p>

<p>there are no scholarships for athlete at Princeton</p>

<p>the money is by “need”</p>

<p>AND yes the varsity athletes of most sports are slammed by the sports commitments–and most STEM majors have to either drop the sport of the major…they cannot be both STEM and varsity athletes year round.</p>

<p>IF Princeton isn’t handling the same way H,Y etc is…then I wish my kids was at Princeton…for the $$</p>

<p>AND yes my K1 misses out on most of the life at the U, all of the things the marketers/admissions tauts…because the sport consumes all of the non classroom/p set time.
I asked K1 if it was time to pass on the team and let the last 2 yrs be more of what the U offered…and K1 enjoys the team enough to stick with it</p>

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<p>These are silly comments made by the AD which reflect poorly on Princeton. Because many of the indentured servants died before the Terms of indenture expired many considered them slaves. For any AD to associate current D1 football players with this institution is wrong and any AD of a prominent football program who made similar comments would be fired.</p>

<p>“You aren’t able to participate in the life of the college under those circumstances.” This statement is false. Many football players are able participate in students organizations and many enjoy the time they spend in college.</p>

<p>"We need to be more outspoken, as a league, about our model, because it’s the proper way to do things.” This is simple to accomplish. Because your concern is only with the football players , simply arrange a meeting with as many D1 recruits as you like. If you can convince them to not commit to D1 schools them you will accomplish your goal. No need to involve others , your grievances are only with the D1 coaches and their players.</p>

<p>"…necessitating more travel and pulling student-athletes away from the classroom." </p>

<p>“Walters made a name for himself as a point guard for two Ivy League basketball champions, including the 1965 Final Four team”</p>

<p>The 1965 final four championship was played in Portland OR.</p>

<p>Sauce for the goose anyone?</p>

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<p>For schools with competitive athletic programs, the principal difference between a scholarship athlete and a non-scholarship athlete is the scholarship. At schools that provide scholarships, the commitment expectations obviously don’t vary based on the amount of athletic aid received by an athlete. In addition, the amount of time devoted to a sport is largely independent of presence or absence of scholarships at a university. In my family’s experience, the unofficial practices at Ivy League schools compensate for the reduced official practices.</p>

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<p>The Ivy League clearly competes for top D1 players. The League and Gary Walters are right to point out and advertise that Ivy athletes, even if injured or if they leave their athletic program, keep their FA in place and can finish their educations without prejudice. </p>

<p>“Indentured servitude” is a very strong phrase. I agree.</p>

<p>But lesser versions of that phrase I have heard are things like “your life is not your own” “your athletic commitments take priority over your academics” and even that athletes can’t take particular classes because they conflict with athletic commitments, you can’t ever participate in exchange programs, etc.</p>

<p>The phrase was strong, the principle is not inaccurate when it comes to athletics and scholarships.</p>

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<p>FA is given on a year by year basis - just like athletic schollys. I believe that injured athletes under certain circumstances can keep their schollys in D1. </p>

<p>At Ss Ivy, the freshman athletes are dropping like flies in engineering. It’s not that they don’t have the mental ability, it’s that there is simply not enough time in a day to sleep, eat, practice, play and study - especially in a grade deflation environment.</p>

<p>I guess my point is (a) it’s darn hard to be a D1 athlete, (b) it’s darn hard to be a STEM major at an Ivy anyway, and (c) it’s even harder to be a successful STEM student athlete at an Ivy.</p>

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<p>I totally agree with this statement Stemit, “Either he’s blind or intentionally ignorant as to what is expected (albeit not required) of his athletes at Princeton.” The Ivy athletes that I knew/know actually train MORE than D1 scholarship athetes! If he thinks that Ivy League athletes are only practicing 12 days in the off-season, he is sadly mistaken. I know of current Ivy League athletes who had captains practices during finals! That would absolutely NOT happen at my daughter’s D1 school.</p>

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<p>A review of recent Princeton football recruiting classes as ranked by ESPN indicates that the AD at Princeton has cause for concern. However using an inappropriate analogy to insult D1 athletes is unprofessional and unlikely to gain Princeton a recruiting advantage. In addition it is simply inaccurate to use the term " indentured servitude" to describe a D1 athletic scholarship. In one case a service (transatlantic passage) was provided in advance in exchange for several years of work without wages, in the other case tuition room and board are provided concurrently for one year in exchange for one year of participation on an athletic team. A far more accurate term to describe an athletic scholarship would be a service contract.</p>

<p>Due to demands by elite athletes, it is now very common for highly ranked D1 football programs to offer 4 year athletic scholarships, in contrast indentured servants would never want the number of years of service to be increased. Coaches frequently use redshirting in which the athlete continues to receive tuition, room, and board but is not able to participate in competition. This never would occur with indentured servitude. Finally many schools such as Stanford will meet full FA need even if the athlete quits the team.</p>

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<p>If you are looking to play a D1 sport, as the article says, be prepared for a major time commitment. If you want a solution to this problem, it’s real easy: go D3. My S had a choice, D1 or D3 and he went for the latter. He clearly made the right decision.</p>

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<p>Isn’t that the trade off? You gain admission to one of the most elite institutions because of your sport. </p>

<p>If it is more important to major in engineering, you can always quit the team with no financial consequence (Princeton).</p>

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<p>I think he meant “indentured servitude” more in the generic sense. It’s a binding contract, isn’t it? I agree the term is loaded with an ugly history, but he’s not wrong. Anyway, I don’t see how the Ivies are immune to the problems that arise when athletics play a large role in an academic environment. </p>

<p>In some respects, it’s a very cynical process. If American universities reduce the visibility/importance of sports, then alumni, prospective students, the general public tend to believe that the school is diminished–such is the power of sports in our culture. Reputation falls. Applications fall. Rankings fall. Then the almighty revenue. So schools find ways to bind students to an athletic contract, through preferential admissions and financial aid. </p>

<p>Schools basically use student-athletes to hedge against reputational risk, and hence, falling revenue. The Ivies still “hook” students to fill their athletic programs, and who knows, really, how many “need-based” aid packages are sweetened to lure recruits. They still demand 4 plus hours per day and large chunks of a weekend–a time commitment that largely prevents a kid from having a well-rounded college life. A STEM major at an Ivy is still, by most accounts, harder to pull off than non-STEM. The biggest difference that I can see is that Ivy coaches can’t/won’t/shouldn’t be a thorn in the student’s side when it comes to pursuing academic interests. And that’s probably a difference-maker for a lot of kids. In short, it’s the degree of “indebturedness” that the AD is talking about.</p>

<p>But I’m not so sure the Ivies have cornered the “proper way to do things”. D3 seems like a more reasonable way, but I understand that D3 time commitments can be heavy too. It’s a difficult problem.</p>

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<p>At the elite institutions, such as Princeton, there will be no loss of prestige if their sport teams do not perform well.</p>

<p>There are several elite institutions whose teams are not tops (MIT, Columbia, Harvard, Yale etc), yet they still get thousands of applications.</p>

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<p>There’s no loss of prestige for mediocre athletic performance at the Ivies, but what would happen if Princeton decided tomorrow to offer 10 sports, instead of 36? I think they’d suffer a loss in reputation, especially to Harvard and Yale. I’d expect the same fallout if the Ivy League dropped to D3, at least initially.</p>

<p>On the other hand, there are schools whose reputations are more tied into athletic success. Any number of examples. Suppose Stanford finished tenth in the Directors’ Cup for the next 20 years. Heaven forbid. Would their revenue suffer, directly or indirectly through reputation/interest? I think it would. And we all know how reputation drives rankings, which drives revenue. </p>

<p>Universities are caught in a very difficult spot if they want to lessen the load that student-athletes face. It’s become an arms-race, of sorts, and it’s very tough to unwind. The question is, is what the student-athlete gets, in exchange for serving the college for 4+ hours a day, worth it? Many different viewpoints there.</p>

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<p>"The Ivies allow 12 days of off-season practice, while most other schools use the NCAA maximum of 48. With that extra workload, full athletic scholarships have become a form of “indentured servitude,” </p>

<p>The NCAA defines off season practice as Out-of-Season Athletically Related Activities and the regulation for these activities are as follows:</p>

<p>17.9.6 Out-of-Season Athletically Related Activities. Student-athletes and members of the coaching staff shall not engage in countable athletically related activities outside the playing season, except as set forth in this bylaw (see Bylaw 17.1.6.2): </p>

<p>17.9.6.1 Conditioning Activities - FBS. Student-athletes may participate in conditioning activities pursuant to Bylaw 17.1.6.2 as follows: </p>

<p>17.9.6.1.1 January 1 until the Start of Preseason Practice - FBS. Between January 1 and the institution’s reporting date for preseason practice, an institution shall conduct its out-of-season conditioning period as follows: </p>

<p>a) An institution shall designate eight weeks as student-athlete discretionary time (see Bylaw 17.02.14). The designated eight weeks (each week must be seven consecutive calendar days) must be placed on file in writing in the department of athletics prior to January 1. Any changes in the designated weeks are permissible and shall be on file in the office of the institution’s athletics director. Institutions are permitted to designate institutional vacation periods (e.g., holiday break, spring break) as student-athlete discretionary time. </p>

<p>b) Required conditioning, weight-training activities and review of game films shall remain permissible outside of the eight weeks designated as student-athlete discretionary time. A student-athlete’s participation in such activities shall be limited to a maximum of eight hours per week, of which not more than two hours per week may be spent on the viewing of game film. </p>

<p>c) Spring football practice per Bylaw 17.9.6.4 shall remain permissible outside of the eight weeks. </p>

<p>17.02.14 Student-Athlete Discretionary Time. Student-athlete discretionary time is time that a student-athlete may only participate in athletics activities at his or her discretion. There shall be no required workouts and institutions are not permitted to recommend that student-athletes engage in weight-training or conditioning activities; however, if the student-athlete opts to workout, the strength and conditioning coach may monitor the facility in use for health and safety purposes.</p>

<p>17.9.6.4 Spring Practice. [FBS/FCS] Fifteen postseason practice sessions [including intrasquad scrimmages and the spring game permitted in Bylaw 17.9.5.2-(a)] are permissible.</p>

<p>So during the extra off season practice of 36 days the football player at other schools would have a maximum of 8 hours of practice a week. At the same time a football player at Princeton who receives financial aid would be expected to have a part time campus job.</p>

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<p>Duboyne,</p>

<p>I disagree with you. Princeton’s prestige is not based on sports. If Princeton came in last place in the ivy league for every sport, I highly doubt they would see a drop in applications. The majority of sporting events at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Columbia, Cornell, UPenn, etc. have VERY low attendance rates. </p>

<p>The athlete who is recruited to one of the above schools has to realize the trade off. The student has the option to apply as a non-athlete and walk on to the team. Then if the student feels the time commitment is not worth it, he/she can quit the team and not feel bad.</p>

<p>Those recruited athletes who receive scholarship(non ivies) money are, in essence, getting paid for their participation in the sport.</p>

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<p>Ivy teams slide around the exact practice limits by encouraging “Captain’s practices”: supposedly voluntary workouts/scrimmages led by the student captain which are indeed required, unofficially.</p>

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<p>I haven’t checked other schools, but in Yale’s Student Athlete Handbook, captain’s practices are part of the list of practice limits (see pp. 10-11).</p>

<p>[Yale</a> Bulldogs](<a href=“http://www.yalebulldogs.com/information/athlete_services/yale_student-athlete_handbook.pdf]Yale”>http://www.yalebulldogs.com/information/athlete_services/yale_student-athlete_handbook.pdf)</p>

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<p>Not sure what he is smoking. Ivy League athletes I know of have it just as tough or tougher than those on a scholarship.</p>

<p>Whether my son goes to an Ivy or not, scholarship or not, and plays college sports, he will take some summer courses so he can have lighter loads during the school year. </p>

<p>Soccer in particular has an average of rather poor scholarships, so indentured servitude seems like a bad analogy.</p>