<p>[At</a> Ivy Club, A Trip Back to Elitism - New York Times](<a href=“At Ivy Club, A Trip Back to Elitism - The New York Times”>At Ivy Club, A Trip Back to Elitism - The New York Times)</p>
<p>Interesting read.</p>
<p>^This article is from 1999. So take it with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>According to my son, Ivy still has a reputation for being filled with social climbers, but if it’s not your thing…it’s SO easy to avoid. Other clubs have more laid back reputations and many people never join Eating Clubs at all.</p>
<p>There are lots of choices.</p>
<p>As a freshman, my son has loved the fact that the clubs are so open. Pretty much anyone can go to them for social events on the weekend.</p>
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Isn’t there only one club that has this policy?</p>
<p>We just got back from a college tour, including Princeton, and the institution of the eating clubs is a big question mark for my daughter. She is also not interested in schools where the Greek system dominates the social scene, and the eating club system at Princeton resembles that in some important ways. I have to say I’m not too persuaded by people who successfully got into bicker clubs when they describe how others feel about the system.</p>
<p>But here’s a question that I’m not sure about: do the sign-in clubs have enough space for everybody who wants to be in an eating club, or are there people who are completely shut out of both kinds of club? I have read conflicting statements about this.</p>
<p>There is enough room in the sign-in clubs – everyone who wants to be in a club can find space in at least one.</p>
<p>My son is a sophomore - was very ambivalent about clubs - is not a drinker – decided to sign in and is happy with the decision. It is where he will eat his meals but will not comprise the bulk of his social life. His friends from freshman/soph year are doing a variety of things - some sign-in, some bicker, some co-op, some residential college. There are lots of choices and lots of ways to be part of social circles that do not necessarily involve the stereotyped club life.</p>
<p>My oldest Daughter is a sophomore at Princeton. My youngest Daughter was just admitted and will be attending in the fall. D1- VERY serious student, valedictorian, stopped dancing her Junior Year of HS(started dancing when she was two, started dancing competitively at 7, winner of many state/national awards- soloist,duet,officer,team) to concentrate even more on school/testing- Princeton was her Dream School. D1 was fortunate enough to visit over 30 colleges during a three year period-feel in love with Princeton and set her heart on it. D1 resumed dancing her Senior Year, once the “stats” were set for College Applications. D1 WAS not as social as D2, who is also very good student, award-wining dancer. D1 did not want to join a sorority, she did audition for a Dance Company and made it. I was a bit worried about the Eating Clubs but I was reassured since there were sign-in clubs, and that everyone who wanted to join an Eating Club would have a place at one. D1 studied,danced,volunteered, “stayed in” 1st semester of her freshman year,and took care of her 3 other roommates when they wandered back in from The Street at 3-4 am. Second semester freshman year, she added The Street to her routine, lawnparties,stayed for Reunions- you name it. My shy,somewhat socially awkward bookworm has absolutely thrived at Princeton and is having the time of her life(also getting VERY good grades). </p>
<p>Despite D1’s growth and transformation, I was VERY surprised and a bit worried this Christmas when she told me that she had decided to bicker- no one wants their child to be disappointed or upset, even if it is a part of life and growing up. It was her decision, I bit my tongue , and nervously awaited the results with her father and D2. D2( who has visited and stayed with her sister 5-6 times over the last two years, and experienced Princeton on a “regular weekend”) was much less nervous than her father and I. Mom, they have to let her in- she knows EVERYONE (wow, D1 knows everyone-how amazing). Like a previous poster stated, she had been going to her prospective Eating Club with her friends- fellow Dance Company members, Princetonian Editors, GetSet volunteers, 2 of her 3 freshman room mates for over a year). Yes, she was accepted- so Happy. I will also add that she has friends in many other Eating Clubs- including the more exclusive Ivy and Cottage Clubs, and often attends functions there as well as sign-in clubs that other friends decided to join. She also has friends who are not in Eating Clubs- friends, are friends, no matter their Eating Club affiliation or lack thereof. Your children will figure it out for themselves if they want to bicker,sign-in or neither. In my opinion, the existence of the Eating Clubs should absolutely NOT be a reason not to apply to/attend Princeton. Something I thought that D1 would probably choose not to participate in 2 years ago has become a very important part of her life and college experience. D2 can’t wait for Princeton, and whether or not she decides to bicker,sign-in or neither will be totally up to her. She absolutely loves Princeton and cannot wait to join her Sister there in the Fall.</p>
<p>A bit of background information. We are from Texas, a suburb north of Houston. I grew up in the Midwest, was the first in my family to attend college (state flagship), put my self through UT Law School, corporate lawyer for 18 years,fortunate to be able to quit to be with My Daughters from their middle school years on- have never regretted it. My H went to Texas for undergrad and Law School. We are neither legacies nor elitists. We are believers in education and hard work. H and I have fallen in love with Princeton for so many reasons, not only because D1 is SO Happy there, but also because it is such a great educational opportunity, has such a beautiful, safe Campus and an amazing Alumni Network. I get misty-eyed everytime I visit D1, and I am still in disbelief that D1 and D2 will both be there next year, and marching in P-rades together for years to come! </p>
<p>Sorry for rambling. Please do not let the Eating Clubs sway your children’s decisions, everyone can belong if they choose to, and if they do not, they will not feel left out. Eating Clubs are unique to Princeton, but they are not what make Princeton unique and Specil- there are so MANY wonderful opportunities at Princeton!</p>
<p>I think Mommalis has it right.</p>
<p>Hunt, I think you may have been seeing what you expected to see on your visit.</p>
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<p>Tower Club started this four or five years ago and some version of it has now spread to the remaining bicker clubs. Even Tiger Inn, often thought of as the rowdiest of the clubs, has such a policy. They don’t all have the same name for it.</p>
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<p>I just don’t see the resemblance. Fraternities and sororities are, of course, single gender, unlike the eating clubs which are all co-ed. While 50% of the eating clubs allow membership to anyone who wants to “sign-in”, no fraternities or sororities operate in this way. Fraternities and sororities typically provide housing for their members. The only Princeton students who live at the eating clubs are the very few who are officers. Finally, the membership in each eating club numbers around 200. Most fraternities and sororities are tightly-knit groups of no more than a couple of dozen students each.</p>
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<p>Oh, I think you’ll find the vast majority of Princeton students and alumni agreeing about the general nature of the clubs whether they belonged to a bicker club, a sign-in club, or, like me and many other alumni who post here on CC, did not belong to any of them.</p>
<p>The clubs offer a great deal of entertainment and camaraderie for juniors, seniors and even many sophomores. The parties vary in quality but are often terrific and generally open (even at the bicker clubs) to non-members. Most importantly, the eating clubs are, unsurprisingly, mostly about eating. Sharing meals with classmates in the more intimate settings of the clubs is great though many juniors and seniors are now opting to remain in the four year residential colleges or go independent, as I did.</p>
<p>Hunt, I believe that you are either a Yale alum or a Yale parent. Isn’t that correct? If so, you may have a different view of this but it seems to me that Yale’s Secret Societies are far more like fraternities and sororities than are Princeton’s eating clubs. The Secret Societies at Yale have exploded in number and now attract a very large percentage of all seniors. </p>
<p>While the ‘landed’ societies (e.g. Skull and Bones with its ‘tomb’) are still relatively few in number (and, like fraternities, have very small memberships) there are now, according to recent reports, as many as 41 Secret Societies at Yale with nearly 600 members, almost half of all seniors belong to one. All of them are exclusive, membership is by invitation only and except for the fact that they do not have their own houses, they appear much more similar to fraternities and sororities than do Princeton’s eating clubs. You can Google “Rumpus, Yale, Secret Society, exclusive” to learn more and to see the documentation in some of the stories. </p>
<p>Apparently, Rumpus distributed across campus a printed list of the roughly 600 members and the names of the Secret Societies. </p>
<p>The Secret Socieites, of course, are in addition to the many fraternities and sororities (sixteen or so) that exist at Yale. (About the same number exist at Princeton and Harvard.) Some of these fraternities have their own houses and the behavior or their pledges has helped lead directly to the current Title IX investigation. </p>
<p>[Yale</a> under federal investigation for possible Title IX violations | Yale Daily News](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/apr/01/yale-under-investigation/]Yale”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/apr/01/yale-under-investigation/)</p>
<p>Hunt - My daughter bickered successfully and loved her club. My son bickered, unsuccessfully, and loves his sign-in club. Not that he enjoyed being turned down in bicker, but still he thinks of the clubs as a big plus compared to other top universities where he has friends from high school and childhood. His best friends from those days, BTW, are Harvard and Stanford students. These scenarios have changed my mind about the Street.</p>
<p>Hunt, as for your question on the other thread about housing for upperclassmen, as I understand it, there is no housing segregation between people in clubs and those who choose other options such as a meal plan or a co-op dining arrangement. The exception may be for independents who want to prepare their own food who, I believe, get priority for the apartment-style dorms that have kitchenettes.</p>
<p>Hopefully an alum will confirm this.</p>
<p>Hunt</p>
<p>Here is some snippets from an opinion piece recently written by a Princeton freshman that I think gives you an idea of why most students and parents are very comfortable with Eating Clubs and view them as relatively open, non-exclusive and safe (and my apologies if this has been posted before):</p>
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<p>[In</a> defense of the Street - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2011/04/15/28267/]In”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2011/04/15/28267/)</p>
<p>And I would certainly welcome your daughter at Princeton, should she be admitted and choose to come.</p>
<p>There’s something that hasn’t been discussed much. The good part of the Street is that when there’s a party, everyone knows. No ■■■■■■■■ Facebook for mentions, no texting around, “Party?” Princeton kids just call going to the Street, “Going out.” Because, as has been mentioned, there are no bars and there is no city life. </p>
<p>Princeton’s campus is small. I can’t overemphasize the impact this has. There is little walking on anything that resembles a city street. The social atmosphere is decidedly friendly, if you show up on a regular day.</p>
<p>As I understand it, Yale offers a slightly gentler social environment, because the residential colleges have zero selectivity. Yale’s cocoon, if you will, is softer, despite the secret societies. Harvard, on the other hand, offers a slightly (opposite of gentler) set up. Harder to find parties, harder to host parties, houses offer less community than residential colleges, final clubs more selective than eating clubs.</p>
<p>All of this fits the dominant culture of the schools, and helps explicate the student stereotypes. Harvard - ambitious and somewhat hard-bitten, Princeton - hail fellow well met and somewhat conservative, Yale - artsy and a little high-strung.</p>
<p>Again, the students aren’t hard-wired to be all the same. Not in any way. But these are the perceived social cultures. I do think some students would be happy at any of these schools, others will thrive much more at one place than another. And again, physical location probably molds the culture more than anything else.</p>
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I think there’s a lot of truth to this. Certainly, Boston vs. New Haven explains a lot of the differences between Harvard and Yale.</p>
<p>One thing I observed on our visit this past week was that the student body at Princeton seems to dress quite differently from the students we saw at Yale, Harvard, Brown, etc., earlier in the week (although the nicer weather at Princeton may have something to do with it). People were more dressed up in general, with collared shirts on a lot of the boys, and many girls wearing dresses. This was on a Thursday in the afternoon, by the way. I would have to say that there was more of a “Southern” vibe, reminding me a bit of someplace like Duke, or UVa. So I may have been influenced by my perception that the students were somewhat more “fratty” or “preppy” looking than at the other Ivies I’ve seen (haven’t been to Dartmouth).</p>
<p>[Note: I expected to see very preppy students at Amherst–but our tour guide had multiple facial piercings, including paper clips, purple plaid bermuda shorts and purple sneakers, and a T-shirt. Of course, he may have been chosen as a tour guide to break down stereotypes.]</p>
<p>As far as the preppy dress goes, that’s pretty standard for a nice day at Princeton after an extended period of subpar weather. As soon as the temperature cracks 70 and the sun is out after a few cloudy/rainy/chilly days, we go into a default preppy Lawnparties-type mode, kind of like a butterfly coming out of a cocoon. After the sun and warm temperatures become more consistent though, we tend to resume normal dress patterns after replacing jeans with shorts, boat shoes with sneakers, and so on. </p>
<p>I expect that Princeton has more of a southern/prep feel than any top-tier school north of Duke. Part of it probably has to do with the country club stereotype - I wasn’t preppy at all in high school, but on certain occasions here (Lawnparties, the first really nice days of spring), I’ll dress like a prep. This isn’t to fall in line with any social pressures, but more because it’s pretty fun to ditch the grungy t-shirts and jeans for a day to sit outside and relax with some friends in Holder courtyard with a jug of iced tea and not worry about my COS exam tomorrow or my math problem set due Friday.</p>
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Thanks, FightTheTide. I also noticed Ralph Lauren and J. Crew across the street–but no Urban Outfitter. It does create a different look.</p>
<p>J. Crew’s other name is “Suburban Outfitter.”</p>
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<p>Hunt</p>
<p>I gotta disagree here. There’s tons of Urban Outfitter clothes on campus (even if there’s no store across the street), as well as jeans and grungy sweatpants. </p>
<p>I think that FightTheTide is correct. There are a number of times at Princeton when kids like to dress up. They think it’s fun. They know the stereotypes of the campus (they are very self-aware) and they like playing around with them sometimes.</p>
<p>I actually don’t think it means that most of the kids are any more preppy than at similar schools. As FightTheTide has pointed out, it’s fun to ditch the grungy t-shirts sometimes.</p>
<p>However, when someone visits who has a particular vision of Princeton as a preppy haven, seeing kids dressed up reinforces their stereotypes. And while I have no particular problem with your posts, I do get the impression that you have some preconceived notions about Princeton (I really don’t mean to be offensive here, it’s just my view of your posts).</p>
<p>Well, sure I had preconceived notions that Princeton was preppier than other Ivies. It has had that rep for a long time. And it looked preppier, at least on the day we were there. But I don’t think that means that any more of the students were actually from prep schools or from the South, necessarily. It just means that there is a preppier clothing style there, just as there is more of a hippie style at some other schools.</p>
<p>My son will be a senior next year and never joined an eating club, and his good friends did not either. He never felt pressured to do so, and has not second-guessed that decision.</p>
<p>Regarding Eating Clubs</p>
<p>My son is a senior, graduating in 2 weeks…YAY. He didn’t not join an eating club his junior year but did his senior year (he found preparing meals and studying a bit tricky for him ). He has friends both in his eating club and outside of his eating club.</p>