Princeton or Penn Wharton

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>Hey guys/girls,
I got into Penn (Wharton), Princeton, Dartmouth, and Vandy (Scholarship) the other day, but I think I'm definitely choosing either Penn or Princeton. I'm not sure if I really want to do business or not at Wharton, but if not I figure I'll just transfer to the CAS. I have absolutely no clue which one to choose.
I really want a school that has the top academic resources and can provide me with the best post-graduate opportunities, but at the same time I want to really be able to have a good time in college and meet a lot of unique people that I can have fond memories of and stay in contact with for the rest of my life.
I really wanted to go to Princeton, but all I keep hearing is how terrible the social scene is at Princeton. In that aspect Penn seems like a much better fit for me even though Princeton has like the best academics in the country...Please tell me this social reputation is false</p>

<p>I'm usually pretty outgoing and lively, but at the same time, and more importantly, I am always very thoughtful and down-to-earth. I'm intellectual but also very unselfish. I'm not a big fan of any form of pretentiousness (which unfortunately seems all to prevalent in the ivy league). I know I'm speaking in abstractions here, but maybe this can help you get a view on who I am. </p>

<p>Please give me any advice possible on my decision!</p>

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<p>I also just got into Princeton, and although I have some other choices, I will most likely go there. I never heard anything bad about the social life at Princeton. I know some recent graduates and current students and they all tell me that they had an amazing time at Princeton. If you’re really interested in going into business, then I think Wharton is the best choice. But if you’re even the slightest bit uncertain, Princeton would be a great place for you to explore your other options and to figure out what you want to do with your life. I really don’t think you can go wrong either way, but good luck!</p>

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<p>Where did you hear that the social scene is “terrible”? All my Pton friends say that it is amazing, and my past visits have confirmed this.</p>

<p>Go to Pton, especially since you are not totally sure about going into business. You’ll have four years of fun and a less cutthroat atmosphere and also a broad liberal-arts background, and have virtually the same career opps when you graduate.</p>

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<p>I’ve heard about the social life from a bunch of student reviews and stuff. Books, Websites, you know. I mean I’m not sure if I can trust them. I was hoping to hear from a recent graduate/current student about it.</p>

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<p>I love Pton alot. I love the suburbs its in. I love its econ department. I love the buildings/atmosphere. However, I wouldn’t attend pton over wharton if you want a less stressful environment. I have many friends who attend Pton and many of them say that grade deflation has kinda come to dominate many classes at Pton. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve heard Wharton isnt exactly an easy place to get As in. However, I don’t think you should attend one of those schools over another because you’re trying to avoid stress in class. </p>

<p>However, the idea that you get a more “liberal arts” education at Pton is prbly correct. Again, theres not a HUGE difference between the schools in that regard. The “One University” system at UPenn has really enabled Wharton students to take many classes at the College. I think Wharton encourages you to take 43% of your classes at the college in fact. Yet, I’m not a big fan of the liberal arts style of learning. I can really only handle that in small doses. So, again, it just comes down to your own preferences. </p>

<p>If I were in your shoes, I’d likely take Pton. However, it would b a CRAZY close call.</p>

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<p>Princeton has an amazing social life.</p>

<p>Consider the type of students who go there – do you honestly believe that much talent is simply being wasted away in the eating clubs all the time? If so, then you shouldn’t attend a school whose students you don’t trust intellectually anyway.</p>

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<p>Oh, don’t trust “review” web sites. Many of the contributors, if they can be called that, aren’t even students or alumni of the schools they’re talking about. As for books, the good ones that I’m aware of (like Fiske) don’t suggest that the social life at Princeton is weak. You’re right to go straight to current undergrads for real answers.</p>

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<p>I would choose Wharton. If you like economics/business, it is the top.</p>

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<p>I just posted this in the Yale forum, but it is also applicable to Princeton:</p>

<p>If you want to get the best jobs possible, go to Wharton. Coming out of Princeton, you will almost certainly be able to get a BB IB, S&T, but more so MBB (consulting) jobs if you have a high GPA, interview well, and show some basic knowledge of the industry. Obviously, you get all of that at Wharton too, and Wharton places a hell of a lot more kids than Princeton does into those jobs. Going to Wharton also gives you in-depth knowledge about these different career paths, (far more than you could learn over a summer internship) so you will know exactly what you are getting into. Wharton MBA students, who have already gone through the process can also be useful guides and chaperones for you. </p>

<p>However, the cream of the crop at Wharton have options that Princeton kids don’t, thanks to their in-depth business knowledge. That includes Private Equity (the pay is almost twice that of the jobs mentioned above and is a lot more interesting. Half, or more than half of most firms PE jobs will go to Whartonites - some Princetonians do get in right out of undergrad but it is not nearly as common as at Wharton since Whartonites have a much better finance background), VC (which some Princeton kids do get into, it is just rare), and Hedge Funds (which Princeton places fewer kids into). Some firms recruit exclusively at Wharton - like Silver Lake. If you want to have the widest possible set of jobs in the financial industry open to you, go to Wharton. If you want to have the widest set of jobs in all industries open to you, go to Wharton, but double major and get a liberal arts degree from Penn’s college. </p>

<p>The rankings on the street of so-called “target schools” are:</p>

<p>Wharton and Harvard at the top rung, and then the rest of HYPSM follows. </p>

<p>If these schools are so close in your mind, why not just go to the school that has an alumni network in finance that is probably 5 times the size? We have already established that you can get a superb liberal arts education at both institutions. We have also established that, for your chosen career path, Wharton outstrips Princeton (especially if you count getting a PE, Venture Capital, or a hedge fund gig). Both schools provide for amazing undergraduate experiences. We have also established that going to Wharton means that you do not have to get an MBA, whereas the necessity of one at Princeton is far far more likely, if not almost always necessary. </p>

<p>But Wharton has one advantage that Princeton does not, the largest network on Wall Street. Only Harvard’s rivals Wharton for power. Ask anyone in the industry, they will tell you that networking is perhaps the most important thing when looking for a job. Wharton helps you there far more than Princeton does since it has a vast alumni base (that Princeton’s is not anywhere near as large - they have no MBA program), that, in turn, provides for better job security since even in London or Hong Kong, there will be plenty of Wharton alums to help you out. </p>

<p>But you are choosing from two of the best schools on earth. Revisit both, talk to some professors at both Princeton and Wharton if possible. There will be a lot of Wharton kids that turned down Princeton for Wharton, approach one and ask them why they did that. Do the same at Princeton. Ask both sets of kids what the career options are at both schools. You really cannot go wrong. Two of my cousins went to Yale (which is similar to Princeton I suppose), both loved it. Another went to Penn, he loved it as well. All would agree that you are in a superb position. Congratulations and good luck. I hope I get to see you on campus!</p>

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<p>kafkareborn brings up an interesting point, and certainly one the OP should keep in mind.</p>

<p>I’d posted my thoughts on the forum on Huntsman:

</p>

<p>The one additional note I’d make is that the OP isn’t sure he wants to study business. In that case, Princeton’s generally strong reputation in other fields - languages, IR, etc - may be an advantage.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t worry too much about things like pretentiousness or bad social life. We can be a driven bunch at Princeton, but we’re not any less laid back than the folks at Wharton. :)</p>

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<p>Excellent perspective from both kafkareborn and Silly Puddy. Thanks you both for your help. My son is in the same position. Choosing between Huntsman and Princeton.</p>

<p>In summary: If you are sure about Business or Finance Career, close your eyes and choose Wharton. They are the king of Wall street and I banks. You can walk to an Investment bank in any part of the world and you will find a Wharton guy working there. Their alumni Network in street beats Princeton hands down.</p>

<p>If you are not sure yet what you want to do, choose Princeton. You can change course easily</p>

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<p>Kafkareborn: love your posts. curious as to your basis for the following conclusion:</p>

<p>"The rankings on the street of so-called “target schools” are:</p>

<p>Wharton and Harvard at the top rung, and then the rest of HYPSM follows."</p>

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<p>kafkareborn’s post is 80% on the ball, but the other 20% is an exaggeration of the differences…</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That seems like an odd statement. There are firms that (aggressively) recruit only W (Silver Lake) and firms that recruit at HPW (Blackstone, Bain Cap., Apax), but as far as I’m aware, there aren’t any that recruit at H but not P. My mentor (Harvard alum) calls HPW the “forever finance triumvirate”.</p>

<p>My personal take from the field is that:
W > Harvard, Princeton > Dartmouth, Stanford > Yale, MIT, but the differences between HPW in particular are small.</p>

<p>(I don’t have any particular stake in Dartmouth, but I’ve always thought it was really overrepresented…)</p>

<p>For other fields, like quantitative finance, I’d say:
MIT > Harvard, Princeton > Stanford > all else.</p>

<p>Anyway, this is splitting hairs. I will give you a money back guarantee that whether you get that job at KKR or other PE firm will not depend on whether you go to Wharton or Harvard or Princeton (likely, if you’re not already very finance-focused, you’ll find it difficult to get into KKR anyway). </p>

<p>As a loyal Tiger currently at a hedge fund, wanted to give my 2c. Good luck to you.</p>

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<p>Yes! I had a fantastic time learning and growing at Princeton!</p>

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<p>In your opinion, is the Wharton MBA at all similar to this opportunity-wise? Or how about plain economics from Penn?</p>

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<p>Kafkare, I think you ignore the fact that many Princeton grads end up in PE/ Hedge funds/ VC etc after the pretty much standard 2 years of banking. In fact I would say this is actually a higher value route in the long-run, particularly for VC.</p>

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<p>I never said that Princeton grads cannot get into PE. I am well aware of that route, but again you are taking a risk. You have to be near the top of your analyst class to move onto PE, and you, in most cases, have to get prior PE experience to get into PE after your MBA. Since most business school are trending younger, that would mean 4 years and a lot of uncertainty for something that you could have gotten right out of undergrad. There is also no guarantee that you will get into a HWS (Harvard, Wharton, and Stanford) which is basically what you need to get into a PE firm, you also need to excel at those schools. At Wharton, all options are open and you can avoid all of that hassle. The strong finance background you get from Wharton going into your IB class also helps you have the intuition to get to the top of your class. (The others will pick up most of the functional skills you need a quarter of the way in, but the intuition and deep knowledge can really give you an edge - which is why people go to business school after their IB stint). That is why there are far more (nearly 5 times - if not more) Wharton grads in PE, as I proved earlier. That network is very helpful as your fellow Wharton grads can help pull you into these ultra selective companies. Wharton gives you that advantage and it gives you the opportunity to get a liberal arts education simultaneously. So if you are interested in finance, I think Wharton is the clear choice.</p>

<p>Lastly, the only reason the IB stint is useful before going to PE is because IB trains you up and gives you modeling skills. That is very useful for a liberal arts grads that have none of that going in, but for Whartonites, their skills in those areas are already very strong and so there is little, if any, value added by doing the IB stint. They can afford to go directly into PE and the since they know their stuff cold, and the PE firms know that.</p>

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<p>Another reason to go into IB is the networking opportunities, but you get all of that during your undergraduate years at Wharton anyways since you are surrounded by kids that go into various different industries and the MBA students that came from various industries. That’s 800 kids per MBA class over 4 years, and 500 per class over 4 years. That is an immense number of people to network with.</p>

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<p>I’m going to go along with the general consensus here; you obviously need to go to the school where you feel you’d be happier. Princeton and Wharton will both have their fair share of grade deflation and cut throat students, but both schools will also have plenty of more laid back kids looking for the same sort of social setup that you are looking for. Assuming though that you are simply looking at the programs from an academic and potential job perspective, then I think you need to look at what you want to do. While it’s not like Princeton is a bad choice for Ibanking or PE, Wharton simply dominates the field. Every year 10% of Wharton grads accept offers at Goldman Sachs and the out of the roughly 45% of Wharton kids that go into banking, pretty much all of them end up in Bulge Bracket firms no questions asked. At Wharton about half of your classes will be from CAS which will match your strong business foundation with a liberal arts education from one of the best universities in the country. . .so it’s not like you are sacrificing flexibility by choosing Wharton. However, if you think there’s a decent chance you will not end up in finance or consulting, then I think you might be better advised to choose Pton.</p>

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<p>^^ </p>

<p>Good post, unless of course you do not mind studying business and realize that the skills you learn at Wharton are useful in any career. You could go on to pursue an MD, your business degree will give you the skills necessary to run your private practice, to set it up, and to expand it without spending even more time and money getting an MD and an MBA degree. This is a particularly alluring option considering the stature of Penn Med (top 3 in the world, oldest med school in America). Being a Penn alum will give you a leg up. </p>

<p>A similar argument could be made for law, especially if you would like to enter a field in law that is related to finance or accounting like tax law. Wharton allows you to have a strong grasp in both law and business with two degrees instead of 3. That is two years and hundreds of thousands of dollars saved. If you want to set up your own practice, these skills, like the ability to handle your cash flow well, come in handy. That management course about the 5 styles of leadership will help you run your law firm, or work at a larger law firm and be an effective leader. </p>

<p>Several Whartonites do pursue these paths every year at top notch universities, (as shown in the link below), so it is a distinct possibility for you to consider. </p>

<p>Obviously, if you are dead set on Law and you have no interest in business at all, then HYPS is probably a better option. But if you do not mind studying business, and are considering these other careers, I would not write Wharton off. If you feel that you are most likely to pursue business, I would take Wharton without a doubt. </p>

<p>As longstreet said, you are not sacrificing flexibility at all by attending Wharton. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2008Report.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2008Report.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>(What you are looking for is at the bottom of the page)</p>

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<p>I think that this is pertinent to this discussion:</p>

<p>He said: “Like all Wharton undergrads, you view an education’s purpose by its proclivity to place you in whatever flavor-of-the-moment boutique all your friends are excited about. So, let’s do a little investigation.”</p>

<p>False. The Whartonite you are talking to disproves it. I have a strong interest in philosophy; Penn allows me to pursue my interest in Philosophy with some of the world’s best professors, study alongside brilliant students, and read Plato and Heidegger to my heart’s content. While simultaneously studying topics that I find equally intellectually stimulating, topics like financial theory. I am a utilitarian in the Millhousian stream. I believe that the value of what we learn can only be judged on the outcome that that knowledge has on greater society. If you think about it, we, students at elite institutions, have been endowed with great cognitive abilities. That was no mistake; we have an obligation to use our abilities to enrich society, whether that be in art or finance. Economics tells us that specialization makes for a more efficient market; therefore, you should specialize in a field that you are best in, in order to have the greatest impact on society. So if finance interests you, study that. If it is physics, study that. In my purview, that is the only metric that can be used to decide whether a subject is worth pursuing or not. I also believe that there is nothing inherent about Philosophy that makes it more of an intellectual undertaking than stochastic calculus, for instance.</p>

<p>Wharton allows you to pursue BOTH philosophy, biology, chemistry, or whatever it is that tickles your fancy and broadens your mind (as you put it) and the finance courses, management courses, and other courses that a utilitarian would value. So you get the best of both worlds. The better career options, the efficiency of the degree, and all of these other things are just added benefits. At least 30% of Wharton’s undergraduate class does double majors, even greater numbers minors in something else. Everyone explores a full range of liberal arts topics, whether they double major in them or not. The fact of the matter is, you still get a liberal arts education at Wharton through Penn’s fantastic college (which is ranked right behind Yale on US News let us remember).</p>