Princeton or Stanford?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
1

<p>2 days ago I was accepted by Princeton and a few other colleges. At that point of time, the choice was clear-cut. Then the email from Stanford came, and now I'm fortunate enough to be facing this dilemma: Princeton or Stanford?</p>

<p>I intend to study Economics for undergrad and then either work in finance or go straight for PhD in Economics. Both schools have strong Economics departments, but I think the network is more important. However I don't have a clue which one will offer better internship opportunities and career prospect in finance.</p>

<p>I am an international student from Vietnam, so I can't afford to visit either school. The financial aid awards aren't all that different: Princeton asks for $2000 of parent contribution while Stanford offers full aid. Both are loan-free.</p>

<p>I'm not sure how I'll fit at either school. I'm an introvert, but I do enjoy interactions with friends (just not too much), concerts, seminars, etc. How would you compare the life at the two schools?</p>

<p>Princeton's grade deflation worries me a little, as I'm not exactly the most hard-working student. I can be if I want to, but that stresses me out.</p>

<p>Do you have any advice or insight that would make this decision easier? Btw I'm posting this in the Stanford forum as well. I really appreciate your help.</p>

2

<p>I had this decision to make for grad school (economics also). I chose Princeton. First, if you’re interested in a career in finance, Princeton is the place to go (along with Wharton and maybe Harvard), Stanford is great but they simply don’t have the same Wall Street connections that Princeton does (kind of like saying that Stanford is the place to go if you want to work in Silicon Valley). In terms of the economics department, Stanford is a top 5 department but Princeton is top 3 (although this isn’t really relevant at the undergraduate level). Plus there’s more of an undergraduate focus at Princeton so the same professors that are teaching graduate students will also be teaching undergrads. For example, one of last year’s Nobel winners, Chris Sims, taught undergrad Money and Banking. Plus you’re required to write a senior thesis so research experience is a freebie.</p>

<p>Others should be able to give you more information on undergraduate life but I can answer any questions you have about the econ department.</p>

3

<p>Two incredible schools. Congratulations. It appears here that Princeton would be the better fit for the op.</p>

4

<p>

</p>

<p>What evidence do you have to support this claim? Stanford’s b-school is ranked #1, and as a result, Wall Street firms recruit heavily there. Undergrads benefit from this.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Some rankings put Stanford econ above Princeton, others put Princeton above Stanford, but they’re usually neck-and-neck.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>But that’s also true at Stanford…</p>

5

<p>Stanford is known for its graduate programs, while Princeton is heavily focused on undergraduate.</p>

6

<p>It’s funny to see Princetonians claim that, and then when discussions turn to graduate strength, they’re quick to proclaim Princeton’s superiority over all schools there too. Why can’t they just admit that there are other places that are just as good for undergrads?</p>

7

<p>I’ve never claimed anything of that sort. There is no doubt Princeton focuses heavily on undergraduate, with no medical and law school and ~5000 undergrads to ~2000 grad students. Stanford is known for extremely well-known and prestigious graduate programs. I refrained from commenting on it’s undergraduate programs because I didn’t feel that I knew enough information to make an informed statement on the quality of its undergraduate education.</p>

<p>I have, at no point, claimed that Princeton’s education for undergraduates was better than Stanford’s.</p>

8

<p>^ sorry about that, didn’t mean to jump to conclusions and imply that you thought that - it was more directed at another poster on this thread who’s undoubtedly about to chime in again and proclaim Princeton’s superiority over all others. :)</p>

9

<p>^^^^ha!</p>

<p>this coming from phantas, the Stanford ■■■■■, that has claimed that Stanford’s “asphalt jungle” campus is much greener than Princeton’s beautiful campus…</p>

10

<p>If you don’t mind working hard, want to network with some of the most brilliant and motivated people, and have access to the most resources (highest endowment per student), then go to Princeton. Employers and grad schools know that here, the students are competitive and the curriculum is rigorous, probably more so compared to other elite schools. For i-banking opportunities, we are on par with Harvard and Wharton (you’ll have by far way more opportunities than Stanford), and since we have stronger math / engineering than Harvard / Wharton, we actually place more people in elite quant firms / prop shops (Jane St, SIG, DE Shaw, etc), and that’s where you make the big money (think 200k straight out of college, and it grows over time)</p>

<p>However, if you want to relax, get good grades by doing less work, and still have a great–but not intense–undergraduate experience, then go to Stanford. I’ve heard it’s way more chill. You’ll probably do well in terms of getting into a good grad school from Stanford (after all, getting As there is probably easier), but I can say with certainty that your employment prospects, especially for anything finance related, won’t be as good</p>

<p>As a sophomore at Princeton now, I probably would’ve picked Stanford (but that’s because I’m really lazy and have a hard time beating the averages here in CS and physics) In terms of social life, I was able to make great friends here and I’m not the most social being</p>

<p>The truth is that Princeton is as difficult as the department you are taking the class in; this ranges from really easy, even easier than high school (sociology, humanities) to moderate (economics, other social sciences, life sciences) to difficult (ORFE, engineering) to why did I ever come here, I suck at life (math, physics, CS)</p>

<p>I’ll probably take a lot of heat for posting that (people have different strengths and weakness, you can’t compare disciplines blah blah) but that’s my honest opinion after spending two years here. </p>

<p>Bottom line: you’ll probably do fine in econ here (it’s not too hard, way easier than math or CS) but you’ll still have to work hard, and you’ll have better employment prospects (that is, if you get the grades and work hard)</p>

11

<p>^ did you know that Princeton doesn’t actually have any real grade deflation and that the average graduating GPA is 3.4 (before the policy it was a 3.46)? Princeton is no less grade inflated than Stanford. If you’ve never attended Stanford, how can you make such claims as “get good grades by doing less work, and still have a great–but not intense–undergraduate experience”?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You make it sound like those in the Stanford network are chop liver. Endowment-per-student matters very little, because it does not speak to the complete financial resources of the university: the endowment provides only a small portion of the operating budget. For example, Stanford perennially gets far more in donations than Princeton, and Stanford gets about $65+ million in royalties from licensed technologies annually, which would require an additional $1.3+ billion in endowment to match in cash terms (assuming the typical 5% payout from the endowment each year).</p>

<p>As such, it makes more sense to look at the operating budget, which provides a more comprehensive look at the financial resources of the university. When you view that in per-capita terms, Stanford is $268,000/student, whereas Princeton is $198,000/student. Both endowment-per-capita and budget-per-capita have the same pitfall that you can’t separate graduate from undergraduate - some of the budget goes primarily to graduate education; and some of the endowment is primarily for graduate education (e.g. graduate fellowships). But in the former case, at least you have a more complete picture of the financial resources of the university. </p>

<p>I’ve noticed that Princetonians in particular like to trumpet endowment-per-student and perpetuate the myth that it’s indicative of more resources per student. It’s unclear whether this is out of ignorance of university finances or out of a desire to portray Princeton as “above and beyond” other schools. Either way, it’s cheap and misleading, not just to prospective students, but to everyone, including yourselves.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s rich coming from you JamieBrown/japanoko/JohnAdams12/countless other usernames that I can’t remember. And yes, every poster on these boards knows when you switch usernames, as your writing style is distinct and you ■■■■■ for Princeton at every opportunity you can. It’s really hilarious that you call me that when you are the most famed Princeton ■■■■■ on all of CC. :wink: Even Princeton supporters repeatedly distance themselves from your posts, which they often consider abrasive and extreme.</p>

<p>I also find it funny that you proclaim affiliation with Stanford all the time on these boards and cheerlead for it too, unless it’s Stanford vs. Princeton, and then all of the sudden Stanford sucks to you. :)</p>

<p>(I’m still waiting for the proof on all that “asphalt” at Stanford. Did you forget that that discussion occurred before you created your “JamieBrown” username? I believe you were “japanoko” then.)</p>

12

<p>Stanford fan,</p>

<p>gradeinflation.com</p>

<p>The median GPA at Stanford is considerably higher than at Princeton (and they stopped reporting in 2005, from what I’ve heard from my friends that go to Stanford, the median is about 3.7, which is absurd if you ask me). One could argue that this is because Stanford students are smarter and harder working, but if one looks at the admitted students data, this is not the case; this GPA disparity probably occurs because Princeton’s courses are more rigorous, the students are more competitive, and grades are kept in check with grade deflation</p>

<p>I have two friends from high school that go to Stanford, and after knowing them in an academic context for several years I have a good idea of their abilities; one was URM and the other was an athlete, both admitted with SAT scores below 1900; one is majoring in econ, the other in engineering, and both tell me that they are able to maintain good GPAs (3.5+) with only slightly more work than high school, which was a complete joke. With that in mind, I believe the courses at Princeton are, on average, more difficult than those offered at Stanford; relatively speaking, it is somewhat of a walk in the park</p>

<p>Also, if one is interested in a career in finance, Princeton will open many, many more doors than Stanford; Princeton grads have one of the tightest networks on Wall St, I think this is reflected here: [Top</a> Private Universities By Salary Potential](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-private-universities.asp]Top”>http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-private-universities.asp) </p>

<p>There is a reason Princeton is ranked #1 on USNWR ([National</a> University Rankings | Top National Universities | US News Best Colleges](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities]National”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities)) and Stanford is ranked #5.</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>To be fair, I don’t think any Princetonian denies that other undergraduate experiences are just as worthwhile as Princeton’s–after all, most of us were cross-admits with other top schools. (I, for one, have many pro/con lists validating H and UChicago.)</p>

<p>But there is something unique about the Princeton undergraduate experience. While many other schools have undergrad student bodies around 5,000, no other school that size also lacks professional schools but still has a small–though strong–graduate student body. For some students, that lack of a grad population is a big X against Princeton. Those kids want to be constantly surrounded by the sharpest minds of all ages, in all areas of study. They want all sorts of things happening around them on so many different levels all the time. They’ll probably turn to H or Y or C (I’m fairly ignorant about the “feel” of S, but h*ll, throw them in too). And at all of these institutions, they’ll find that the undergraduate student body, as one Harvard student put it to me, is the “bread and butter” of the institution. </p>

<p>But it’s not the whole experience, and that’s why kids turn to Princeton (in admittedly smaller numbers than H or Y). They want to be at a place that constantly lauds undergraduate achievement, where professors have their attention almost exclusively turned on undergrads. (Right now, a kid who prefers S or its peers is thinking, “Blah, blah, blah, so what if a few of my classes are taught by TA/F’s? They’re the best in their fields–I’m not losing out on anything.”) In short, you go to Princeton for the same reasons you’d go to a LAC–except that Princeton is wealthier and does more research than any LAC. </p>

<p>There is not a right answer. Princeton and Stanford/etc simply offer different models of undergraduate education. I have a friend at Stanford who adores it and who would probably crumble at Princeton; where I feel the rush of academic intensity and a desire to impress my professors in smaller classes, he’d feel like he was constantly being babysat. I think I’d be constantly grumpy in his shoes; I like my classes small and my weather seasonal. Different strokes, y’all.</p>

14

<p>ib612, gradeinflation.com is not accurate. Stanford has not reported average GPA since 1992, and I can almost guarantee you that the average is not a 3.7. You cite two people you know who were admitted at Princeton and did okay at Stanford; I know someone who had a ~1540 (yes, new scale) on the SAT and got into Princeton and Brown because he was an athlete, went to Princeton, and did fine there. Therefore, the courses at Princeton must be easier, right? No, that doesn’t make sense at all. You can’t draw conclusions like “must be a walk in the park,” and you’re just proving my point that many (not all) Princetonians have an arrogance about their own school that is unequaled by any of the other HYSM. The fact that you bring up US News demonstrates a lot (I could bring up the many rankings that put Stanford ahead of Princeton, but that is irrelevant to the discussion at hand).</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>There is no evidence to support this. Out of curiosity, are you aware of the reasons why people ignore Payscale data or why Payscale data is statistically invalid?</p>

<p>glassesarechic,</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>The Princetonian above you more or less just stated that. :p</p>

<p>Of course the Princeton undergrad experience is unique, but so is that of HYSM, etc. I just have a problem with such statements as “But it’s not the whole experience, and that’s why kids turn to Princeton” - implying that students are marginalized at Princeton’s peers. Again, the subsequent argument is tantamount to saying, “Princeton is better for undergrad.”</p>

<p>Relying on the ratio of undergrads to grads, as you implicitly are doing (considering you’re putting Yale in the category of H and S as well), makes little sense. UC Berkeley has 2.5x the undergrads as grads, and I don’t think anyone would argue that it’s more undergrad-focused.</p>

15

<p>By the simple fact of proximity to Wall Street, there are more chances to complete multiple interviews for summer internships and later, permanent jobs, coming from Princeton. For the smaller equity and venture capital firms who do not want to give away multiple airline tickets for internships, a New Jersey location means a 50 minute train ride for the student interviewee.</p>

16

<p>^ interviews are often done through video conferencing or on campus; recruiters go to Stanford’s campus every year for job and internship recruiting. All the finance firms have offices in San Francisco and LA as well.</p>

17

<p>While I can’t tell you which one you should go to, I can only give you my opinion.</p>

<p>Having lived in both sides of the country, Princeton NJ is cold October - May. Stanford definitely has the better weather. Princeton campus /architecture is the typical North east ivy-covered buildings. Stanford is more Spanish style. Stanford may have more international and vietnamese american student body/clubs. If stanford is giving you 100% aid, that is a tipping factor as well. $2000/year is still a lot of money for someone outside the US.</p>

<p>Both places will get you finance internships and opportunities. You got to look at the “happiness index”. Do you have family either side of the country? Good luck with whatever you decide.</p>

18

<p>

</p>

<p>I don’t think my argument says that at all. In fact, what I said what that the Princeton experience will turn off many prospective students. Plenty of students prefer larger universities, bigger grad programs, and the resources of professional schools. Their undergrad experiences will be uniquely shaped by those opportunities, whether because they do research with the brightest grad students of their time (less likely at a place like Princeton, where there are fewer grad students in fewer disciplines), attend lectures at their school’s B or law or med schools, or just get to see more new faces every day.</p>

<p>Undergrads at such larger institutions aren’t necessarily marginalized, and I didn’t (mean to) imply that. In fact, what I said what that the undergrad experience is the heart, the “bread and butter” of these institutions. The difference is that at Princeton, the undergrad experience is almost synonymous with the Princeton experience; at HYSMetc, the HYSMetc experience will be much more varied. When one thinks of Princeton, they think of the undergraduate degree. When one thinks of, say, Harvard, everything from Harvard College to HBS to Harvard Med to Harvard Masters and doctoral programs comes to mind. That’s all I meant when I said that the undergraduate experience wasn’t the “whole experience” at those institutions. </p>

<p>When comparing P to schools with similar undergraduate populations, the 5,000:2,500 ratio helps explain that phenomenon. (It’s also a ratio that doesn’t exist at its peer schools, which is why I used the word “unique.” I didn’t meant “unique” as a sort of value judgment.) When comparing P to UCB, your example, it breaks down–fine. The bigger point is that professors come to Princeton almost exclusively to teach undergrads, because the grad opportunities aren’t as big of a draw as they are elsewhere. Princeton students love that and take advantage of their close contact with professors during office hours, etc.; other students might rather their professors also be working on cutting-edge research with the brightest grad students and are content just to see their professor in lecture (and published in journals, and featured in newspapers). And it’s more than possible to take small classes or have close relationships with professors at HYSMetc. The only difference is that Princeton’s education model centers on this contact, whereas at other schools, it happens in spite of the professor’s other commitments.</p>

<p>Neither method is superior, but they’re admittedly different models. Understanding Princeton’s model of education, love it or hate it, is going to help the OP make his decision.</p>

<p>In conclusion, I wouldn’t say that Princeton is necessarily better for undergrad. Rather, in the same way the LACs are, Princeton’s just more “about” the undergraduates. Some students thrive in that environment; others thrive in larger and more diverse ones.</p>

19

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m also an introvert. The nice thing about the Street, I’ve found, is that it’s always there, and many of the clubs are open to anyone with a Princeton ID. At other schools (don’t know about S specifically), it’s difficult to find parties if you’re not involved in Greek life or particular extracurricular activities. At Princeton, however, you can be generally uninterested in partying but if, on a particular Thursday or Saturday, you decide to go out, there will be a place for you to go that you and all your friends can get into.</p>

<p>Through Alcohol Initiative, there are also mellower weekend activities that suit me well when I don’t want to go to the Street. Thursday-Saturday, for example, there are free movies at the Garden Theater, and the climbing wall is open on at least a few of those nights as well. Murray-Dodge, an on-campus caf</p>

20

<p>^Not to generalize, but having been to the Princeton campus, I sort of found it quite “preppy”. Is this the case or is it a mix of students from various backgrounds?</p>