<p>First of all: drinking exists at every school. I know that there was one week when about 10 kids had to go to Princeton Medical Center because of drinking. Oh and Thurs/Sat night drinking are a little more than popular at princeton.</p>
<p>Second of all: The view books do talk about eating clubs as a unique opportunity. Yes, and for whom? And when you go to the admissions website, under what’s distinctive about princeton, you’ll see “eating clubs”. </p>
<p>Third of all: Most people at Penn either live in college houses or live in Philly.</p>
<p>And, fyi: there are grants and work-study opportunities for study abroad at most top universities including Penn and Princeton.</p>
<p>I’m just against unfair privledges and I believe in equality of opportunity. But that’s just my opinion. I understand that it doesn’t bother everyone, but I’m glad that the Prince has written about it because it’s a system that I would like to see changed.</p>
<p>And 4th House: Did you ever think of the 20%? Some people can’t invest their $2,000 in eating clubs and it’s a reality that I’m not only only aware of but also sensitive to. It’s a shame that people don’t think about the other 20% but that’s the way the world unfortunately works.</p>
<p>SusieBra - Yes, most top schools do have plenty of funding opportunities for study abroad programs. But most schools aren’t top schools. You previously stated that Princeton should be legally mandated to shut down the eating clubs because they do not provide equal opportunity to all. Do you also believe that most schools should be legally mandated to disassociate themselves with study abroad programs because they cannot provide funding for all interested students?</p>
<p>I’m not even sure what your argument is anymore. Are you saying that Princeton students drink more than Penn students? Are you saying that Frats/Sororities promote equality more than eating clubs (where for many you can simply sign in?). Both have social fees that can equally limit participation. Many Penn students don’t join frats/sororities for the same reasons Princeton students don’t join eating clubs. </p>
<p>Regardless of whether Princeton advertises the clubs, it should be proud of having a unique institution such as the eating clubs. It’s not like Penn can do the same with frats/sororities - they simply aren’t unique.</p>
<p>What “unfair privileges”? Please stop iterating points about a school that you don’t even go to.</p>
<p>sorry to slightly alter the topic but what would you say to the criticism that the spread out campus makes the university less vibrant than say a more compact one with high, concentrated foot traffic? e.g. Yale, Penn, Columbia…</p>
<p>To echo an earlier comment, Princeton really seems empty in that it is rare on a typical day to see a critical mass of students assembled anywhere… I want to reiterate my opinion that Princeton’s buildings and architecture are really second to none in the US as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>I think that as a matter of personal preference people can definitely prefer high traffic campuses. I don’t think that Princeton is unusually spread out for a non city campus though–it is easy to traverse the main academic buildings and living quarters in about 10-15 minutes. If you go to Williams or Dartmouth or hundreds of other campuses, you will find that things are pretty similar and you often don’t see large masses of kids. </p>
<p>I really enjoy Penn’s campus–it is very vibrant, very pretty and I like the masses of people, particularly on Locust Walk. However, I also love the beauty of Princeton’s campus and don’t find it particularly empty.</p>
<p>I went to the second Princeton Preview with my son and sat in on the panel discussion for eating clubs and have done independent research. Everything midatlmom has said is true according to my research. SusieBra you came forth with inaccuracies from the very beginning. What a shame.</p>
<p>BTW, my pre-frosh loved Princeton and can’t wait to go.</p>
<p>there WERE university sponsored eating clubs, that link was from the 50s with the stevenson club or whatever. I’m not going to argue that back then the eating clubs weren’t elitist, as that one particular year they didn’t accept any of the jews on campus. Of course you couldn’t have gotten into an eating club back then anyway, as princeton wasn’t coed at that point. Clearly things have changed in the last 60 years.</p>
<p>To further hit home the inaccuracy of the elitist stereotype associated with Princeton, the student body just voted to donate the funds normally allotted for the main act at fall Lawnparties to the Pace Center and other student initiated volunteer projects. </p>
<p>People on the thread here have refuted your points yet you would insist on crying and complaining about eating clubs. It doesn’t seem like you’re even listening to them.</p>
<p>You said, “And 4th House: Did you ever think of the 20%? Some people can’t invest their $2,000 in eating clubs and it’s a reality that I’m not only only aware of but also sensitive to. It’s a shame that people don’t think about the other 20% but that’s the way the world unfortunately works.”</p>
<p>—> You are NOT required to join an eating club. Most people who don’t join it are the ones living off campus or who want to cook for themselves or simply not wanting to join an eating club, etc. Even if you are not in an eating club, you can still go to their parties and events and you will have friends to hang with. If one really wanted to join an eating club, there are lots of ways to obtain $2000 (I am not a “rich preppy” kid like you would assume now. I’m paying for college with financial aid and outside scholarships. I’ve had many jobs, so I know.)
The eating clubs aren’t as elitist as you think. They are open to everyone, and it’s easy to find ways to pay for them (Jobs+University subsidizes the eating costs if you are in a financial need). I think they are very convenient. Let’s talk about Harvard’s Final Club and Yale’s secret societies then?</p>
<p>You realized that Princeton wasn’t your fit. It’s okay. Everyone has different preferences and not all colleges are fit for everyone.
You chose U-Penn, and it’s a great school. Have fun there then, but you’ll see that U-Penn is not perfect either…</p>
<p>I REALLY LOVED IT!!!
I met a lot of cool people and was assured that Princeton is the school to go to. The campus was beautiful, the best I’ve seen in the U.S.
It also gave me an idea of what my college life is going to be like and I can’t wait to be there next year!</p>
<p>sunkyujacob: of course eating clubs aren’t required, but since they are unique, it was hard to learn that I wouldn’t be able to participate in them. That, together with grade deflation, to which many students are opposed- I think 70% of princeton students- made me have to choose Penn.</p>
<p>And it’s true that there will undoubtedly be things I don’t like about Penn once I get there but for right now, I haven’t found, read of or heard of anything that wasn’t for me.</p>
<p>I’ve read a lot of your posts, SusieBra, and it seems like you have this personal vendetta against Princeton. You pretend to be objective in making your points, but in reality, your arguments are faulty.
Princeton is no more ‘elitist’ than any other Ivy league school. 50% of its students in the incoming class will be on some sort of financial aid.
Eating clubs are not elitist. There are a couple of them where anyone can get in, and even if you don’t get into your first choice, you eventually get signed into one. The college gives extra financial aid junior and senior year to cover the costs of eating clubs. Most everyone who is not in an eating club does so because of personal choice not because of economic circumstance.
Princetonians do not drink more than any other students. Why would they? What phantasmagorical factor would somehow cause Princeton students to consume alcohol at amounts that exceed other students from other colleges? Your argument here doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>Princeton has its strengths and weaknesses. You found a college that fits you better, and that’s great. It doesn’t mean you have to lurk Princeton forums to bash it with every post you make. Grow up.</p>
<p>When I said “Best of luck”, I meant at whichever place is the right place for you, which for you, seems to be Princeton. Telling someone to grow up in response seems a little immature.</p>
<p>Susie, I just wanted to say that the weekend the 10 kids had to go to the hospital… that was the weekend of eating club initiations. That is most certainly NOT representative of a normal night. </p>
<p>Also, before you start ripping on initiations, I was initiated this past spring and can attest to the fact that no one is forced to consume alcohol. It’s completely optional and the officers do their best to try and prevent hospitalizations… a lot of those hospitalized were idiots who decided it was a good idea to pregame initiations even though we were explicitly told not to.</p>