<p>Yeah, great value . . . IF you can get in. Good luck with that.</p>
<p>I am wondering the same thing about UNC Chapel Hill. I thought that it was near the top of last year's list. Does anyone have a link to last year's list? I hope that this does not reflect a change in their program.</p>
<p>It seems obvious that the schools at the top of the list ought to be Olin, Deep Springs, Cooper Union, and Berea. Where are they?</p>
<p>
No, it seems to have been forgotten last</a> time as well.</p>
<p>What's even more shocking is that UNC Chapel Hill is not listed among Princeton Review's larger list of the</a> top fifty best value publics, although four other public NC universities are (NCSU, UNCA, UNCG, UNCW). Similarly, UF is left out of the list despite NCF, FSU, UNF, USF, and UCF being included.</p>
<p>UNC-Chapel Hill is almost impossible to get into OOS. In state it is not as "fair and just" as people think it is. If you are a minority there is one set of admission standards. If you are caucasian or asian, and NOT in the top 10% of your high school class, forget it. They do take a lot of kids off the wait list every year (about 200 or so), but there is also an "inside edge to that" as well. If you write a bleeding heart liberal essay it really helps. If you are conservative and your guidance counselor has a negative view of conservatives (wink wink), they can tube you faster than you can say gopher! on a golf course.</p>
<p>Carolina is an outstanding university. It is a tremendous value for anyone who can get in, whether they get aid or not. But getting in is very much in question. Also, inside NC, if you don't apply to UNC early action they PUNISH you. They view that as an insult. So if you apply RD, get ready to be waitlisted unless you are in the uber stat category.</p>
<p>Yes, getting in is the hard part but this middle-to-upper middle class family found the need-based aid very generous at one of those top ten value LACs (Williams). I cried when I opened the financial aid letter.</p>
<p>electronblue-what part of the country are you from? Just curious. Trying to figure out the intangible assests of location/sex/choice of major if a choice was stated when schools determine who gets $$ and who does not when all else is equal. </p>
<p>D got the most money from a NE LAC not well known as a science powerhouse, her interest fell in the sciences.</p>
<p>I am afraid the high cost of OSS and Private School tuitions are getting out of hand. Middle income earners, those earning between $125K to $175K gross income are smack in between a 'rock and a hard place.' Majority of earners in this income group will most likely get nothing to something very small depending on certain family factors such as number of children in college, saving and family asset. As someone has mentioned on this thread, after deducting for federal and state taxes, mortgate payment, car loan payment, living expenses etc., a year 'cost of attendance' at OSS and private college can easily take another 40% to 50% off your take home pay. This leave nothing for saving and contigency. In this economy, who can afford to spend that kind of money and send your kids to private or OSS colleges anymore. I predict, private colleges, especially those not so well endow will go bust when enrollment start to drop for the coming and subsequent academic years. This is the next bubble waiting to burst if private colleges do not control their cost and subtantially lower the tuition to attract more qualified students from the middle income group.</p>
<p>White female, non-recruited athlete, non-legacy, leaning towards math/science, from the northeast. I consider us to make a decent living but we live in a modest house without a lot of assets. When I say middle to upper middle class I'm not talking about making 200K a year.</p>
<p>Thanks ADDad - my thoughts exactly.</p>
<p>For those whose kids don't qualify for need based aid, the Kiplinger lists (100 Best Values in Private Colleges and Universities and 100 Best Values in Public Colleges and Universities) are a bit more useful because you can rank lists by "total costs", "cost after non-need based aid" and "percent receiving non need based aid" - and the public colleges list lets you rank and look at in state vs out of state.</p>
<p>Privates in the top 100 with lowest total costs are:
Elon, Baylor, Whitworth, Gonzaga, and Xavier
It is noted that Baylor (in Texas) and Gonzaga (in Washington) give a lot of merit aid as well.</p>
<p>Assuming your kid isn't a fit for an in state public, privates in the top 100 with lowest total costs for out of state students (under $20,000 per year total costs and all except one give non-need based aid to the majority) :
Louisiana Tech
Murray State
University of Minnesota Morris
New Mexico IMT
Truman State
U Michigan Dearborn
U Wisc Eau Claire
U Wisc La Crosse</p>
<p>Rankings</a> for 100 Best Values in Public Colleges
You can sort the lists by SAT Score, class size, admission rate...
Here is the methology. Very useful lists.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We narrow the list to about 120 schools based on several measures of academic quality, including:
Percentage of the 2008-09 freshman class scoring 600 or higher on the verbal and math components of the SAT (or scoring 24 or higher on the ACT)
Admission rates
Freshman retention rates
Student-faculty ratios
Four- and six-year graduation rates, which most schools reported for the student cohort entering in 2002 </p>
<p>We then rank each school based on cost and financial aid. We look at:
Total cost for in-state students (tuition, mandatory fees, room and board, and estimated expenses for books)
Average cost for a student with need after subtracting grants (but not loans)
Average cost for a student without need after subtracting non-need-based grants
Average percentage of need met by aid (need-based assistance)
Average debt a student accumulates before graduation </p>
<p>To determine out-of-state rankings, we run the academic-quality and cost numbers again, this time using total costs for out-of-state residents and average costs after aid.</p>
<p>In our scoring system, academic quality carries more weight than costs (almost two-thirds of the total). To break ties, we use academic-quality scores and average debt at graduation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am afraid the high cost of OSS and Private School tuitions are getting out of hand.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No one disagrees about that!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Middle income earners, those earning between $125K to $175K gross income
[/quote]
</p>
<p>...Are you kidding me?</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The actual median income for CA:
[quote]
California 55,864
[/quote]
<a href="http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/income07/statemhi3.xls%5B/url%5D">http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/income07/statemhi3.xls</a></p></li>
<li><p>Percent of people living in poverty (aka people who actually need financial aid)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
[quote]
The official poverty rate in 2007 was 12.5 percent
[/quote]
<p>Hrm, what does that mean?
Poverty thresholds: (people/income)
[quote]
1 $10,400
2 14,000
3 17,600
4 21,200
...
[/quote]
2008</a> Federal Poverty Guidelines</p>
<p>I hope this has been a pleasant reality check. Be thankful for having enough money to pay for your house, food, etc.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, those of us who diligently began saving as soon as the kids were born, and mistakenly put those savings in the kids' names before it was pointed out that savings should be in the parents' names don't qualify for finaid even if a spouse has been laid off and unemployed for two of the four years. And yes, we did go back to the school without any success.</p>
<p>Best value for those who can get in, and aren't poor enough to be on Pell Grants.</p>
<p>When the 50% of the private school class who are full boat tuition payers leave the private school system the jig will be up for price gouging at private colleges. It is their acquiesence in being "robin hooded" that makes the whole system work. At over $50,000 per year the value proposition for 'full boaters" no longer works as the net present value of an up front investment of $250,000 is only going to pay off at about 20 schools whose clout with top 14 law, top 10 MBA and medical schools make them worth the cost.</p>
<p>Shouldn't examination of "best value" include the quality of the education and of the experience of college life, not just the cost before and after financial aid?</p>
<p>hazelorb - all I am saying is, even people who made between $125k to $175k have real difficulty paying out $50k a year in 'cost of attendance' at OOS or private college. </p>
<p>I am sure, people who have enough money to pay for house, food, etc. is indeed thankful for what they have. </p>
<p>You are merely pointing to me what 'median income' is in America. What I was alluding to you about the income group, I was referring to 'middle class' family. Perhaps I have used the wrong word 'middle income', whereas I should have said 'middle class' family instead. The definition of middle class family are those who earned around $125k to $200k etc.</p>
<p>Middle class families earn $43k - $57k.</p>
<p>Actually, though, the issue is about assets. NO college expects parents to pay for college out of income, but out of assets - either in the form of savings prior to college and/or savings to be accrued after college (i.e. loan repayments). For every 100% increment above the median income in income, families have on average 3x-4x time the assets. In other words, a family with a $150k income will have 6-8x the assets of one making $50k.</p>
<p>The problem, at least until this year, is that the list price of prestige colleges has been way too low, lower in fact, relative to the income of the folks paying full freight than it has been in almost 30 years. The result is that the colleges end up subsidizing large numbers of upper income families who don't require the subsidies. That's what makes the list of "10 Best Value Colleges" such a good "value".</p>
<p>
[quote]
net present value of an up front investment of $250,000 is only going to pay off at about 20 schools whose clout with top 14 law, top 10 MBA and medical schools make them worth the cost.
[/quote]
I'm not sure if medical schools should be included here -- I've seen plenty of kids from state university enter very top medical schools. Many have turned down admission to top undergrad schools because state u was such a low-cost way to end up where they wanted.</p>
<p>
Under what income/level of assets generally qualifies for financial aid ?
Harvard has a program where anyone with income under $60,000, the EFC is $0. Between $60-$80k, the EFC is scaled. I think they also say $0 in student loans.</p>
<p>I think that is for 1 kid in college, so I presume that having 2 or more kids would expand the range.</p>