Princeton students NOT intellectually up there

<p>sorry to post this here and pton09
I'm trying to decide between Princeton, Stanford Yale and to be honest, right now I'm leaning towards Yale. The reasoning is dead simple (alas). What I noticed on my campus visits is that Yale students seem to be much more intellectually engaged. And this isn't just my view.
One Princeton alum "that's what I hated while I was there, the mismatch between students and professors"
A princeton professor and alum "Yale student's are far more intellectual"
another princeton professor, formerly at Yale, observed the same thing
and many other's have said it.
Honestly, I'm worried cuz i love princeton, but i wan't the best undergraduate body to be in.
this has been reified by the respective institutions' differing ethoi of success. Princeton touts the wealth of its alums, the strength of the alumni network. Yale, in contrast, points out that wherever you look, Yalies are the LEADERS in their field. they are the people who matter</p>

<p>HELP</p>

<p>Far more intellectual? Haha, that's almost insulting.</p>

<p>When you consider the fact that many who get into Yale also get into Princeton (and that some who get into Yale are rejected by Princeton), things don't add up. The student bodies are on the same level intellectually. There is no one that is "above" the other.</p>

<p>It would be different if you were talking about the intellectual atmosphere (which Princeton still has, as several current students have attested to). Princetonians are leaders everywhere as well. Check out Princeton on wikipedia and the princeton.edu to see how Princeton students new and old are continue to change the world. If you like intellectualism, there's no doubt you'll be able to find it at Pton. The small classes, precepts, and seminars foster the intellectualism characteristic of the top schools. True, some may not have had a good experience at Princeton. Not everyone does. But the fact that I've found overwhelmingly more people who have had positive intellectual experiences at Princeton than not leads me to believe that the intellectual atmosphere at Princeton is pretty amazing. I mean, students are attending symposia, forums, lectures, and seminars on campus led by leaders of the world in their respective fields. There are so many intellectual opportunities outside of class at Princeton it's almost ridiculous (but then again...it could never be ridiculous).</p>

<p>Princeton students are out there getting the research grants, the internships, and the opportunities just as Yale's are. So, in my opinion, the intellectualism of the student body shouldn't be a selling point for the university. This isn't to discredit your experience or anything, but from my own, I saw Princetonians actively engaged in the intellectual magnet that is Princeton.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision! You can't go wrong with what you choose...but I hope it'll end up being Princeton ;)</p>

<p>I'm not sure what you're looking for...
Are you waiting for people here to say "oh we're really un intellectual...you should go to yale"? </p>

<p>I think, wherever you go, the "intellecual atmosphere" depends on the students..so, if you want to lead a philosophical discussion, go right ahead! It truly depends on the student body; I don't think it's like the school is trying to stunt intellectual conversation. So I think that wherever you go, if intellectual conversations are what you want, you can find (and start) them. Princeton people are just as smart and Yale people, and plenty of them are leaders, so I don't think you can make a comparison like that...</p>

<p>I personally dislike schools that tout their intellectual atmosphere so much that the students don't seem to be down-to-earth (not talking about any school in particular). I prefer to have conversations that are about tv shows just as much about plato, so I really like the fact that I can talk about something as unintellectual as shoes (god forbid) and not be scorned upon. On one level, I think it's very pretentious for a student body to constantly propagate the intellectual persona-- most of us are still teenagers, after all...</p>

<p>lki: don't torment yourself with minor differences. Go where your heart says to go. You have 3 fine choices - there is no wrong. Heads - you wind, tails - you win, lose the coin (during tossing) - you win. Are you posting this to justify your hidden bias or your final selection?</p>

<p>lol speaking of heads or tails, simba...at the princeton reception I went to, an alumni was talking to an acceptee who was chosing between harvard and princeton and said:
"oh you can't go wrong there. flip a coin-- head: princeton wins, tail: harvard loses" </p>

<p>lol :p</p>

<p>If you want to go to Yale, you should. It's an amazing school. Different people can be comfortable in different places. I don't get why you feel you ought to make yourself go to Princeton if you like Yale. </p>

<p>There is a low-key style at Princeton that can be deceptive. Students I talk to are extremely energized by what they are doing and by ideas. They do tend to frown on intellectual arrogance, and they enjoy their social life, which may make them appear less intellectual to some. Some of the most challenging courses at Princeton are the ones that are hardest to get into. </p>

<p>Some years ago I read comments echoing the concerns of the alums you quote, and the university has made it a priority to seek students who are not only extremely bright but intellectually engaged. It must be working. </p>

<p>Have you seen this? <a href="http://www.campusprogress.org/page/community/post_group/main/BW9%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.campusprogress.org/page/community/post_group/main/BW9&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Yale student's are far more intellectual"</p>

<p>i guess this is one case where princeton's modesty is bad? ive never heard of someone debating schools because one school acts more intellectual? haha</p>

<p>yalies are leaders in their field? thats cuz yale has a graduate school, graduate degree is what will direct where ur field will be. undergraduate degree helps u get to that grad school.</p>

<p>yeah alot of those yale leaders probably didnt undergrad at yale. for instance, bill and hillary clinton. and when you say yale students are more "intellectual" this is probably referring more to personality than intelligence. id say that princeton students are very down to earth yet deceptively intelligent (id include myself in that generalization). honestly in high school people who arent in class with me are genuinely surprised when they find out im going to princeton, from what my friends have told me. ("I didnt know he was that smart?!?!?!")</p>

<p>yea....</p>

<p>yale is known for having a cocky/"we know we are smart" attitude</p>

<p>one of the larger reasons as to why my friend last year chose to decline yale</p>

<p>I do think there differences in the personalities (very general) of the student bodies of these schools. I'm not sure one is better than the other, but they are different. When I'm at Yale, I'm struck by the energy of the place. Part of that has has to do with being in a city instead of an upscale suburban neighborhood, I think.
Shrek - Pton does have a graduate school. My H attended years ago - we were married and lived on campus for four years. We loved it.
My D visited Pton during the app process and didn't really like the feeling based on her very subjective and limited view of the students she met. In her view, Pton's too preppy, too "monied" - basically too conservative for her tastes. (I'm sure if someone visited Yale on any given day, they might say the same thing.) You have to go with what feels right for you. I do think that connecting with the student body is more important than admiring the buildings. There is a zaniness to Yale - the sort of place that free spirits can find soulmates. If that appeals to you, I can see why you would want Yale. Both schools have VERY smart students, however, so don't underestimate the Pton kids.</p>

<p>"i wan't the best undergraduate body to be in"</p>

<p>While i'm a Penn guy, i'll be the first to admit that Princeton, in my opinion, is the ivy that is the geared the most towards undergrad students. To me it seems that the kids are also VERY down to earth. Probably the most down to earth kids in the ivies are at Princeton (next to UPenn students).</p>

<p>I'm tired of hearing about this intellectual atmoshere stuff. I think that if you want that it can be found at ANY major university, especially a top-tier one. Let's be serious, we don't want to walk through the quad talking quantum physics, sit at lunch for 40 minute discussing the aspects of the Laplace Transform, and be running on the treadmill at the gym yelling to your neighbor how you and you prof are discussing the flaws of Bush's plans to stabilize the Middle East. The atmosphere is there , go find it.</p>

<p>Well, I think it's been established that all of the students in HYPS are basically equally intelligent and talented, looking at the admissions numbers. I understand what you mean about wanting an "intellectual environment," but trust me, if I thought Princeton weren't a highly intellectual environment, I'd choose somewhere else. (I'm definitely not part of the "party scene.") Academics and my outside pursuits are by far what's most important to me, and of all schools, Princeton seemed to me to be the place where academics are nurtured, and where interests are refined. From my visit, it seemed like Princeton's students are encouraged to synthesize their interests, academics, and outside pursuits, and thus find something that they're truly interested in studying. This kind of fusion was what made Princeton so appealing to me.</p>

<p>Princeton is a residential campus, and the majority of what students do happens on campus, which helps with student-professor interaction. So, while the recreation element is largely on-campus at Princeton, I've heard that Yalies club a lot, so those students aren't always visible on campus. </p>

<p>As for the difference between the images that the two schools try to convey, it really shouldn't be considered, because the difference is just that--a difference between images. Princeton is a close-knit community, and that is one of its main features, so clearly that's a selling point that Princeton pushes. That doesn't mean that Princetonians are any less distinguished than Yale College graduates, or that you'd somehow be academically limited by choosing Princeton. I'd argue the opposite: Princeton is such a nurturing and intellectual environment, it's hard not to find success in whatever pursuit you choose.</p>

<p>Of course, Yale is an amazing school. But, to quote my friend: "Yale is comprised of a bunch of hippies. I'm turning them down for Penn!"</p>

<p>Just thought you'd enjoy it. </p>

<p>Oh and, to follow up on somebody else's post: I wonder how many of the intellectual students / leaders at Yale grad schools went to Princeton for undergrad? Not intellectual?--PLEASE!</p>

<p>-David B. / Princeton '09-
Miami, FL</p>

<p>everyone knows princeton has a graduate school, thats why its a "university" but it doesnt have the professional schools - law/med/business.</p>

<p>i agree, princeton is the most down-to-earth ivy. penn is there too</p>

<p>Princeton challenges stereotypes. I say this as someone who grew up geeky/artsy myself. Party guys end up as Marshall Scholars, sorority girls are among those who run the (feminist) Organization of Women Leaders. I would agree that for the most part students would not be described as "zany" in the sense of having green hair (to quote Princeton's president), but the high energy is definitely there.</p>

<p>This has been debated before too often... if you want that "intellectualism" you can find it anywhere.</p>

<p>just to clarify why I posted this here. I went to Princeton. I left thinking: I want to go to Princeton after all. Then I went to Yale. I realized I actually wanted to go to Yale. I was in a bit of security until I started to doubt myself and I'm back to thinking I have no clue. Honestly, I'm not using this as an attempt to justify my choice. That's what all those people I've talked to have done. It's rather that part of me wants to go to Princeton and I'm trying to get you to disagree with my statement and thereby justify princeton</p>

<p>As a recruited athlete, my S was looking at H, Y & P. His impression of Y was echoed by that of another poster here recently on CC, which is the only reason I mention it, because I would have otherwise thought it an isolated circumstance. S was surprised and disappointed by the amount of drinking by Y athletes during his visit to the campus. His impression of P students seemed to be they are intellectually equal to Y but that they are more mature, have more self-respect and exercise better judgement.</p>

<p>He really, really liked Y and the students he met there, but felt P was superior. That's just one opinion.</p>

<p>Princeton > *</p>

<p>settled.</p>

<p>Dizzymom returns with her awesome bundels of wisdom! Yay! :)</p>