I was speaking of the Jewish-American experience here in the US historically, not worldwide as the historical US experience of AA and other marginalized minority groups at the hands of the dominant White majority is what the protests were touching on.
Unless you can dig up a case of Jewish-Americans being enslaved and effectively treated as an underclass due to that historical basis here in the US from before the founding of the US Republic till very recent times…and some would argue into the present.
The Jewish-American experience with oppression here in the US was very different and one which makes PG’s point about Jewish students choices to protest Ford or not not only irrelevant…but in this particular situational context smacks of someone of greater situational privilege lecturing to another marginalized group with less situational privilege in this context to “get over it”.
Something which struck out at me as it’s no different in tone and situational orientation than the ignorant fundamentalist White Christian pastor at a friend’s church who angered atrocity survivors in Europe and WWII vets by giving a sermon where he disapproved of the Holocaust survivor’s refusal to see/forgive a Nazi on his deadbed asking for forgiveness for the atrocities he was responsible for because of his horrific experiences with the Nazis during the war in Europe.
Wasn’t too surprised when a large number of the congregation either walked out immediately or got up to denounce him in a manner not unlike that of the female Y student criticized here by several posters. My friend and I were among the ones who walked out in solidarity with them.
Can you provide a citation…and one which isn’t from a neo-Confederate or pro-Lost-Causer source?
Actually, most non-revisionist historical sources state while the Confederates did induct some Blacks into the Confederate army, it came only weeks before the Surrender at Appomattox and the decision was quite contentious among many in the Confederate ruling establishment. None of the units with Black soldiers were documented as being involved in the fighting even the last battles as there wasn't enough time or equipment to train them up to being ready to engage in combat. Especially considering the military and supply situation in the Confederacy at this stage of the war was extremely chaotic as Union forces were literally at Richmond's door.
Stanford’s president did not kowtow to the protesters. Granted, their demonstration was not race-related. Secondly he is on his way out and probably does not have to do anything he doesn’t want to do right now since they have no replacement for him yet. While the students were occupying his office area, rumor has it he went out to get a haircut.
I suppose it’s possible that STEM-focused schools are less susceptible to this kind of protest–it remains to be seen, of course. I did look up Harvey Mudd on Wikipedia to see if he was likely to be a target. It seems unlikely, but who knows? Perhaps there are some Cypriots who think he was an exploiter.
I wonder if the protests are being indirectly heated up by the backdrop of national political campaigns, where a candidate making overt appeals to bigotry is polling well.
In practice, Wilson’s own actions demonstrated he didn’t believe the 14 points or the rights of nations to self-determination applied to all societies/groups as shown by his executive order to send Marines to Haiti in 1915 in part, to ensure France was able to collect on debt based mainly on demands for compensations for financial losses from the loss of Haiti as a French colony and the coerced free labor from its formerly enslaved residents who made up the vast majority of revolutionaries/Haitians.
Those Marines continued to occupy Haiti for around 2 decades in part to ensure those debt payments for a morally/ethically dubiously based debt continued to be paid.
A list of all our presidents since 1900 who have ordered military action against sovereign nations since 1900:
William McKinley (Spanish-American war and subsequent occupation of the Philippines)
Woodrow Wilson (As detailed above)
FDR (Another war you may have heard of - in addition to steps like the internment of Japanese citizens)
Harry Truman (Korea)
Kennedy (Bay of Pigs)
LBJ (Vietnam)
Nixon (Laos, Cambodia)
Bush senior (Panama)
Clinton (US in Haiti, round 2)
Bush the lesser (Iraq)
Obama (Syria)
It’s worth noting that Theodore Roosevelt supported a coup in Panama when the existing government resisted his plans for a canal, while Dwight Eisenhower ordered the CIA to support revolutions in Iran, Guatemala, and the Congo. Gerald Ford backed Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor, which led to a butcher’s bill between 100,000 and 200,000. Jimmy Carter initiated our support of the Taliban when they were fighting the Soviet Union, while Reagan oversaw the Iran-Contra imbroglio.
William Taft, to his credit, managed to largely stay out of other nations’ affairs. So did Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge, despite continuing Wilson’s occupation of Haiti, while Herbert Hoover began to bring it to a close.
In short, the list of US presidents who’ve failed to violate national sovereignty through a military intervention in the last century is short. Some of those presidents’ wars are few, and may all be justifiable (WWII, Korea). Obviously there are others - Iraq for Bush Sr, the Balkans for Clinton - which are defensible, but those presidents also have wars on their record which run counter to the idea of self-determination.
If Wilson’s non-adherence to the notion of national self-determination is an argument in favor of removing his name from the School of Public Policy, we’ll need to rename a lot of buildings.
That doesn’t necessarily mean there are no protesters or radical progressive lefty activists at such schools. Maybe it was coincidence…but most of the CS/engineering graduates I’ve worked with were either active hardcore libertarian-right or radical progressive lefties* not too unlike ones one would find at schools like Oberlin.
Made for a lot of heated contentious and sometimes profanity-laced lunchtime debates outside the office. In that group, I was one of the few who was regarded as quite middle-of-the-road.**
Some are graduates from hardcore engineering/tech schools like MIT, CMU, etc.
** Both camps would feel very much at home at Columbia judging by how equal in number, loudness, and in your face obnoxiousness both the conservative/libertarian-right and radical progressive left activists were on that campus IME.
“The Jewish-American experience with oppression here in the US was very different and one which makes PG’s point about Jewish students choices to protest Ford or not not only irrelevant…but in this particular situational context smacks of someone of greater situational privilege lecturing to another marginalized group with less situational privilege in this context to “get over it”.”
Why is it when someone who isn’t “marginalized” has an opinion, it’s called lecturing? It’s just a different opinion. That’s all.
BTW, I’m half Catholic half Jewish; am I more or less marginalized than my 100% Jewish spouse? Do I get brownie points for my Irish ancestors who were told NINA (No Irish Need Apply)? I’m just curious who determines the scale here.
You still haven’t answered why today’s Jews should carry any “burden of guilt” associated with Judah Benjamin. Maybe you missed when Jews emigrated here in your history class.
CMU had a “die-in” after Ferguson last year and a rally in support of/solidarity with the Mizzou protesters this month. But not demands directed at their own universities.
So I guess one can make a “safe” college list with those, and the religious/conservative schools…
“Something which struck out at me as it’s no different in tone and situational orientation than the ignorant fundamentalist White Christian pastor at a friend’s church who angered atrocity survivors in Europe and WWII vets by giving a sermon”
You’ve got to stop thinking that “X reminds me of Y” is an argument. It’s not a convincing or compelling argument. At all. Please discuss / debate the actual issue, instead of throwing out the red herring that the person saying it “reminds you” of someone, whether that’s Mickey Mouse or Hitler.
"several hundred students at Stanford University, where I am a professor of comparative literature and comparative studies in race and ethnicity, held a rally in solidarity with students at the University of Missouri, Yale University, and Ithaca College. "
And there is a BlackatStanford hashtag with some interesting videos and stuff (it’s against TOS to link to twitter so will not).
Actually, while the majority of Jews emigrated here after the Civil War, there were sizable Jewish communities dating back to the beginning of the US. One interesting historical fact was that Charleston, South Carolina had one of the largest Jewish communities in the US during the antebellum period.
And Jews in the south during the antebellum were largely accepted as White among the southern White establishment. Many like Judah P. Benjamin owned slaves and staunchly defended slavery in writing and/or in combat by taking up arms against the Union on behalf of the pro-slavery Confederate cause. .
Considering the historical facts above…many AA activists I’ve read of or talked to in college/afterwards would feel you are lecturing from greater situational privilege.
They would also be quite familiar with arguments along the lines of “but my family/most of [insert one’s own] White ethnic group weren’t here during that time” and regard it no differently than many White descendants of Confederate soldiers/officers who argue “My family/ancestors didn’t own slaves”. The more polite ones IME would roll their eyes at those types of arguments.
Only if they live in the Northeast or in coastal California. And assuming of course that they are reliably and comfortably progressive in their politics.
The lengths some will go to attempt to rationalize absolutely silly and destructive behavior is astonishing.
“Actually, while the majority of Jews emigrated here after the Civil War, there were sizable Jewish communities dating back to the beginning of the US. One interesting historical fact was that Charleston, South Carolina had one of the largest Jewish communities in the US during the antebellum period.”
Yes, I’ve been to Charleston. But SO WHAT? It’s TRUE that none of my ancestors ever owned slaves. (And even if they did, I’m not responsible for them.) So I don’t see why that means if an African-American person thinks, does or says something, that I shouldn’t be allowed to voice my opinion because i have “greater situational privilege.”
Does that mean I can shut any New England WASP up as well, since historically they had greater situational privilege than Catholic/Jewish me? All I need to pull is a Catholic or Jewish card, and since they were more marginalized than New England WASPs, they have to shut up? Wow.
Here’s an American concept for you, cobrat. Everyone gets to have his /her own opinion on things. We are not bound by what our ancestors, either individually or collectively, did or did not do. This isn’t one of those cultures in which it’s the collective first and the individual second.
“Considering the historical facts above…many AA activists I’ve read of or talked to in college/afterwards would feel you are lecturing from greater situational privilege.”
Goody for them. Does that mean I’m obligated to agree with their opinions?
And so what if I have greater situational privilege? A lot of the privilege I have, I worked my butt off for, and I won’t apologize for it.
They want a place in Princeton just for black students. Is this the re-enactment of segregation. Can Muslim ask a space for their own?
If Princeton caves in, in the future, Princeton will be divided into many areas, one for black, one for White, another for Jews, another for Muslims. etc…
Harvard’s Paine Hall, a music performance space, has the names of big name composers etched in stone around the walls- all male. I think we need to do something about this too. How about all those sepia portraits of hospital administrators or doctors all down the halls of some major hospitals. Take them down as well. I could go on…Can we change the past? How does it affect the present to keep these things preserved? I am asking because I really don’t know. I am sometimes offended but then remind myself that those honors and memorials reflect values of the past that are changing in the present- maybe not fast enough for some.
The AA activists would argue that while you may have worked hard from it, you along with other Whites or White ethnic groups hadn’t faced the same degree of being relegated to underclass status for centuries as slaves, being discriminated against largely due to that history, or not having the same opportunities to build up multi-generational wealth due to the different experiences their group had with de jure and de facto discriminatory practices in US society.
Rightly or wrongly, they’d view the “I worked hard for it” arguments in the same light as some hardcore computer techies I know of who scoff in ROTFLOL terms at hardcore Microsoft fans citing Bill Gates’ life story in Horatio Alger terms…especially those which play up his CS techie chops. In actuality, he came from a well-to-do family** and the product which launched Microsoft on the road to OS was based largely on code he and his company purchased from a small programming firm for mere tens of thousands of dollars back in 1980.
That’s not to say Gates and Microsoft weren’t innovators…but that the area of innovation was actually in marketing/IP concepts(concept of software license) and that he personally had a large financial safety net to fall back on in case the Microsoft venture failed to work out*.
Summed up by some such scoffers as arguing/perceiving oneself/individual concerned as hitting a triple when one was already born on third base.
** Father was a partner in a prominent Seattle area law firm, mother a prominent board member of some organizations, grandfather was president of a bank.