<p>Interesting article...</p>
<p>Princeton</a> University to suspend freshmen who join Greek organizations | NJ.com</p>
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In keeping with a belief that fraternities and sororities promote social exclusiveness, Princeton University says any freshman who joins, rushes or pledges to a Greek organization starting this fall will face suspension.
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<p>Wouldn't their eating clubs also promote social exclusiveness?</p>
<p>^^^ this has been discussed on CC ad nauseum with, unsurprisingly, no consensus ever.</p>
<p>^^ Oh, since it was all over the radio and articles came out today, it seemed like the suspension thing was something they just decided.</p>
<p>Moving on…</p>
<p>Fresh meat!</p>
<p>I do think the suspension thing is new. Arguing over eating clubs at Princeton isn’t :)</p>
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<p>Eating clubs? How about the university, Princeton?</p>
<p>Isn’t Princeton itself a bastion of social exclusiveness?</p>
<p>Thanks katliamom, that was the part of the post that was really my point. I heard this on the radio today and was shocked that they could do that. I could have easily asked if they could suspend someone if they joined the Masons too. It is not about the eating clubs etc. I just thought since the Fraternities aren’t actually part of the school, would it be something under their control or even constitutional for them to have that kind of restriction?</p>
<p>ucbalumnus, DH made a similar comment when we heard it on the radio, he asked “doesn’t their admissions department do the same thing?”.</p>
<p>The eating club my nephew is in sounds just as fratty as any frat, and I have a feeling their drunken debauchery is far more than what goes on in my S’s fraternity.</p>
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Because Princeton is a private school, they can do this–whether they should do it is a different question. I think it’s problematic, because exactly where are they going to draw the line one what off-campus organizations their students can and cannot join?</p>
<p>Edited to add: I see that this is just a ban on freshman rush, so it’s not as big a deal as it seems.</p>
<p>My alma mater has automatic expulsion for anyone who joins a fraternity -on or off campus - and has had such a policy for 45 years.</p>
<p>mini, what’s the definition of “fraternity” in the school’s policy?</p>
<p>This is just a ban on freshman rush. The ban itself was announced long ago, but they hadn’t said how they planned to enforce it. This is the “we really mean it!” enforcement option.</p>
<p>There’s a lot of Princeton-specific factors at work here. The university doesn’t recognize fraternities, and it has a kind of love-hate relationship with the more powerful, selective eating clubs. The grand compromise reached a few years ago was having students not join the eating clubs as full members until their junior years (maybe the end of their sophomore years? not sure). Apparently some of the un-recognized fraternities also align themselves as unofficial affiliates of particular eating clubs, and I think there is a suspicion that the fraternities, or some of them, are part of a scheme by which some of the eating clubs are cheating on the grand bargain. That’s bad enough (from the administration’s point of view) if they are recruiting first-term sophomores, but a complete abrogation of the deal if it happens with freshmen. Hence the extraordinary sensitivity to recruitment of freshmen by fraternities, and the desire on the part of the administration and faculty to put real teeth in their enforcement scheme.</p>
<p>The eating club system is way more democratic than than it was in my day, but I think it’s pretty clear that there remains a current of thought among some students in some clubs (and some alumni of those clubs) that things are a little too democratic now and it would be fun to be snootier. I doubt it matters much to most Princeton students either way, but some are going to feel passionate about the issue on either side. And anyone who reads the Princeton forum here occasionally knows that some applicants are attracted by the glamour of selective eating clubs, but many potential applicants are turned off by anything that looks like preppy snobbery, and that’s just what the university fears.</p>
<p>“I think it’s pretty clear that there remains a current of thought among some students in some clubs (and some alumni of those clubs) that things are a little too democratic now and it would be fun to be snootier”</p>
<p>LOL, JHS</p>
<p>As I understand it, there are a lot of schools that ban freshman rush. Maybe it’s a little different in that Princeton doesn’t officially recognize Greek organizations but I think that it is a great policy for any school. It gives kids a chance to orient themselves, engage in their more diverse residential colleges for a while and have much better criteria for deciding what they want to do as sophomores.</p>
<p>Not to get into yet another debate about eating clubs, but for those who haven’t heard it all before–while there are similarities with Greek organizations, the main differences are:</p>
<p>1) They are all coed (hence not subject to either the positive or negative tendencies of same-sex group bonding).
2) They are non-residential. All but a few officers live in mixed upperclassmen dorms.
3)Half are non-selective–members chosen by lottery and there is room for everybody who wants to join.
4)Joined in Spring of Sophomore year, but full membership (most of your meals there) doesn’t happen til Junior year.
5)Few if any rituals or time obligations.</p>
<p>That said, they do have varying reputations with a couple considered more preppy or snooty (or alcohol-thirsty). But the overall system is not exclusive and fulfills a social service as there are always some open parties on weekends.</p>
<p>My sophomore D decided not to join one and will be happily cooking for herself in an apartment-style dorm next year but she supports the system and her many friends who will be members of clubs.</p>
<p>“mini, what’s the definition of “fraternity” in the school’s policy?”</p>
<p>No clue, though I know it is in the student handbook. This is what I found there:</p>
<p>Williams students may neither join nor participate in fraternities during their time at the College. This policy was first adopted in 1962, and it is strongly supported by the College community. The College will take disciplinary action against students who are found to be participating in such organizations. Penalties may include suspension or expulsion from the College.</p>
<p>To insure that all students understand the history of and reasons for this policy, the Board of Trustees of Williams College issued the following statement in June, 1989:</p>
<p>It has now been twenty-seven years since the Board of Trustees of Williams College determined that the academic aspirations of the College, and the educational and social needs of our students, would best be served by abolishing fraternities and inaugurating the residential house system. The Trustees note with particular pleasure the role the residential house system has played in insuring that all Williams students would be fully integrated into the life of the College. In making all important decisions over nearly three decades, the College has had as its central goal the sustenance of a community characterized by openness, academic vitality, and equality of opportunity.</p>
<p>Mindful of the College’s history and committed strongly to the College’s goals, the Trustees wish to reaffirm the policy that Williams students may neither join nor participate in fraternities during their time at the College. The Trustees’ views on this subject were most recently expressed in the statement appearing below, approved in October, 1976 and later endorsed unanimously by the faculty. In light of efforts to reestablish fraternities on other campuses, and of apparent interest among a handful of Williams students in reviving fraternal organizations here, the Trustees are reissuing and affirming that statement, and expressing full support for the officers of the College in their efforts, disciplinary and otherwise, to insure that it is understood and adhered to in the Williams community.
Statement of the
Williams College Board of Trustees
Concerning Fraternities (1976)</p>
<p>In addition to banning freshmen rush, pledging and affiliation, the policy will also prohibit freshmen attendance at any fraternity- or sorority-sponsored event. In particular, sophomores, juniors and seniors will not be permitted to bring freshmen of any gender to formal and semiformal events as dates.
So if you are a sophomore and want to bring your freshman girlfriend to your formal dance the university could expel her. Hardly treating their students like adults, are they? It is one thing to ban recruitment until sophomore year (which is not unusual), but this seems a little ridiculous.</p>
<p>I am sure that is something they considered carefully, and based on their experience, came to this conclusion. They know their own campus culture better than you do.</p>
<p>You are so right mini and I will cease to have an opinion on this matter.</p>
<p>That’s reasonable.;)</p>