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what is wrong with Maryland-CP?
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<p>I've wondered about that too. It's actually pretty high in those ever-debatable national rankings for state universities. Is it the surrounding neighborhood that makes some Marylanders reluctant to go there?</p>
<p>I was leaving that alone since I am prejudice. I actually think it is an amazing university and agree it ranks up there...18 in nation by USNWR and 53 internationally.</p>
<p>Many yrs ago when DH went it was easier to get in, but those days are gone, esp. since it only accepted 1 in 7 ly.</p>
<p>As far as programs they now have Scholars, Gemstone and Honors(mostly humanities). Add in Smith school of Business and their journalism school...I am not sure what major they don't have that somebody would have to go somewhere else. Granted they will never be a Julliard, but than again, I don't any state university that is.</p>
<p>UVA and UNC CH have always been on the same realm as UMich and UC Berkeley. </p>
<p>The true problem in my eyes at UMDCP is that they are not renovating dorms quick enough. DS is in the Scholars program and the dorm is still the same as it was when Bullet went there 20 yrs ago. Have to admit the Athletic stadiums get the big bucks, but they also bring in the money with all the tv revs.</p>
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what is wrong with Maryland-CP?
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<p>Oh, nothing's really WRONG with it. It's fine. I just hope my kids don't go there. Who knows, maybe they will. I'll deal with it. In fact if I had to choose, I'd rather they end up at College Park than Towson, (mine and H's alma mater).</p>
<p>My main complaints are the size of the student body. Too big for me to like. I'd rather not see my kids be nameless, faceless numbers taught by TA's for their first four semesters. And yes, the surrounding community leaves a lot to be desired. Likewise for the dorms. Bleh. </p>
<p>As I mentioned in an earlier post, Son's best in-state public fit is probably St. Mary's. That's a solid match for him. Salisbury will be his academic safety. For the sake of price shopping, we'll throw UMCP in the mix. There. Three Maryland schools to compare to the privates. Covering all the bases, just not thrilled about them.</p>
<p>Bluebayou asks,"what is wrong with Maryland-CP? :</p>
<p>Response: nothing per se. The problem with Maryland is that it doens't offer the plethera of majors that other large state universities offer. For example, Maryland has a crappy art department that isn't even NASAD accredited. Its music program doesn't rival those of any top school.</p>
<p>For what it has, it has good programs,but , as I noted, they are limited.</p>
<p>Also, College Park is NOT in one of the better areas of Maryland. There is a LOT of crime around there, and it isn't as safe as I would have liked. </p>
<p>Moreover, humanities at Maryland are mediocre. Maryland is known for its sciences and engineering, and business programs, and education. Humanities isn't as top rated.</p>
<p>Finally, all Maryland state universities have funky general education requirements. Kids must fulfill ten categories. Frankly, I hate gen ed requirements and especially dislike those that aren't very flexible or mandate set categories of requirements. Just my own opinion though.</p>
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Finally, humanities at Maryland are mediocre. Maryland is know for its sciences, and business. Humanities isn't as top rated.
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<p>Yes. Good point that I forgot to mention. My kid is leaning toward English, French, Soc, and Music. Not exactly stuff UMCP is famous for.</p>
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I finally heard an answer from a college on how it is that a need-blind school could just happen to have the same percentage of full fare customers year after year
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I would guess using, for example, home zip codes, parent's educations, and parent's occupations allows a school to be "need Blind" (not explicitly looking to see if an applicant has applies for financial aid) while being amble to guess need fairly well.</p>
<p>A public school kid who wants to signal his ability to pay can do so by applying for financial aid at a Profile school. In addition to the detailed financial information requested, the Profile questionnaire asks what amount the student's parents think they will be able to pay for the student's college expenses the next year.</p>
<p>Are the admissions departments in need-blind schools supposed to be looking at Profile data? I thought they were supposed to be making decisions independent of financial data submitted to the financial aid department. I do agree about the ability of those schools to guess what students may be full pay based on the other examples given above (town of residence, parents' occupation, etc.) Even the students at our school discuss this, according to my son, and assume it may give them an advantage.</p>
<p>quote]My main complaints are the size of the student body. Too big for me to like. I'd rather not see my kids be nameless, faceless numbers taught by TA's for their first four semesters. And yes, the surrounding community leaves a lot to be desired. Likewise for the dorms. Bleh.
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<p>DS is there right now as a freshman...only 1 course was with a TA (econ)...Scholars, Honors and Gemstone all live in their own dorms for freshman/sophomore yr and are req to attend colloqium seminars, giving them a much smaller feel. Next semester he will not have 1 TA, nor from any pt on. He is Govt/International Relations major. He has had the ability to enjoy the big college feeling without ever being a number. Govt Scholars accepts 60 kids per yr into the program, thus many of his friends for the fall were in the same courses. The program is so competitive that if you drop out of it they tell you that it is over. I am sure Smith is the same, not as far as dorms, but as far as classes being smaller. </p>
<p>As far as the safety with UMCP...I agree College Park isn't the safest town, but thse kids aren't going into downtown College Park. </p>
<p>Back on topic. Most parents will fill out the FAFSA so it is all a moot pt about the zip code, and the folks job. FAFSA will require your tax return. Merit is merit. Bullet and I are professionals with Masters, our DS still got merit. None of his colleges, including IVY and top tier asked for financial aid need for admission purposes. Top tier schools aren't concerned as much as you think about if they need fin aid...they want the best student. 75% of kids at Princeton are on some type of FA. </p>
<p>When DS did apps to Notre Dame and UPENN, they pd much more attention to his resume than info about us...UPenn has had implemented since 2006 their FA policy....make under 90K no tuition, under 40K full ride. According to them 60% are on FA</p>
<p>Notre Dame prides themselves on meeting every FINANCIAL NEED for all accepted so they have 100% FA.</p>
<p>All of them are way better in FA than a prestigious selective State Univ for OOS. Believe it or not UMDCP is now considered very selective according to USNWR</p>
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Don't forget: when a kid applies from a public school, many top private colleges don't know if this kid comes from rich parents. However, private school kids probably do meet this criterion.
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<p>True, but I also know some kids who attend private schools and the tutition for those prep schools are funded by grandparents. If grandparents continue to hold onto most of "the old family money", some families might qualify for FA!! They won't qualify at profile schools if they are living in McMansions with a lot of home equity because they bought with mostly family cash, taking out only a small mortgage in proportion to the home's value.</p>
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Most parents will fill out the FAFSA so it is all a moot pt about the zip code
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<p>If it's a profile school, or if the school has their own forms, home equity might change things. Also, the school can decide to gap. At one school that was a safety for my son and where he showed a lot of interest, I think the school rolled the dice. I think that they bet that he'd attend without a good FA package or merit aid (only loans offered). We live in what is considered an expensive zip code and son showed lots of interest. Fact is that one can find homes all over the map within our zip code (mansions, McMansions, fix me up falling apart homes, and everything in the middle. One can find above a store apartment rentals too within a commercial zone. All still within one zip code).</p>
<p>^^^ Also many private schools give out scholarships for kids that can't afford it. </p>
<p>--- Sidwell (where Obama's girls are going) 22% of the children will receive at least 2/3rd of the cost for attending.
---Peddie, 40% of the students are on FA
---Langley offers FA
---Gonzaga High School states if you are accepted we will find the FA
---Pennington is one of the only that I know of that doesn't offer FA</p>
<p>Going private is not equivalent to saying you are there b/c the folks are wealthy</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang notes,"Schools aren't dumb. They look to see whether the student asked for aid and where the parents work. They know zip codes too."</p>
<p>Response: I am not convince of that. However, even zip codes known to have McMansions might also contain less desirable housing. This is particularly true in Maryland, for example, where all areas must have "moderately priced dwelling units." However, If a kid goes to an expensive private school, chances are that someone ( parent, grandparent etc.) has a lot of money.</p>
<p>I do know that someone will chirp up and note that even private high schools do have scholarships for less affluent kids. However, these would be a very small exception. For the most part, kids that attend, expensive private high schools are the offspring of rich ancestors. It doesn't take a lot of guesswork on the part of admission's officers to assume that these kids come from money!</p>
<p>Yes, there are some private high schools that are known to give FA. There are also many private high schools that are known to contain the kids of the rich and famous. Colleges know how to distinguish which are which!</p>
<p>In fact, I would bet that the better, more well-known private schools have lots of connections and discussions with ivy league and top LAC admission's officers. I wouldn't put it past these counselors to tell the schools which kids have very wealthy parents.</p>
<p>taxguy, this is what I was saying. Now, if grandparents paid for private prep high schools that does not mean that they have gifted signifcant money to their kids, or that they won't ask their kids to apply for FA. Where it will unravel is if grandparents paid a substantial downpayent for their children's McMansion. This is where the Css Profile can comes in. If FA is not good at a "dream school", I suppose grandparents will continue to pay.</p>
<p>My best friend works for a private school, pre-k is 23K, and if you don't do the pre-k, your child needs to pass an entrance exam for K. She teaches 8th grade Math. These kids are applying to places like Sidwell, Gonzaga, Archbishop Carroll, Georgetown High for 9-12. This last week she finished her recs. She is a military wife and finance is not an issue in her recs., grades are! </p>
<p>Again they have FA budgets, Georgetowns FA budget is over 1.2 million per yr.
Washington International has 15% on FA. This is besides me showing the other hs in the VA area that give substantial FA if your child is admitted.</p>
<p>PEddie has 40% on FA, that is alot of FA. 1 in 4 on FA for 2/3rd of the cost at the school our Presidents kids are going to is saying alot, and to me it is saying there are alot of smart kids from families that they can't afford the cost</p>
<p>Hey... maybe this will even out the fact that the '09 class was supposed to be the most competitive in history. That would be nice :)</p>
<p>I am guessing that 09 will be the most competitive...remember 09 has a small baby boom due to the Iraq war in 90, plus many kids are applying to tens of colleges which increases tha competition. Believe it or not I met somebody who applied to 17 colleges this yr...I sat in awe and asked when did you start this....JULY was her answer</p>
<p>At some colleges, it will still be more competitive next year and the year after. Here's my FAQ on the subject: </p>
<p>DEMOGRAPHICS </p>
<p>Population trends in the United States are not the only issue influencing the competitiveness of college admission here. The children already born show us what the expected number of high school students are in various years, but the number of high school students in the United States, which is expected to begin declining in a few years, isn't the whole story. </p>
<p>First of all, if more students who begin high school go on to college, there will be more applicants to college even with a declining number of high school students. And that is the trend in the United States and worldwide. </p>
<p>Second, colleges in the United States accept applications from all over the world, so it is quite possible that demographic trends in the United States will not be the main influence on how many students apply to college. The cohorts of high-school-age students are still increasing in size in some countries (NOT most of Europe). </p>
<p>Third, even if the number of applicants to colleges overall stays the same, or even declines, the number of applicants to the most competitive colleges may still increase. The trend around the world is a "flight to quality" of students trying to get into the best college they can in increasing numbers, and increasing their consensus about which colleges to put at the top of their application lists. I do not expect college admission to be any easier for my youngest child than for my oldest child, even though she is part of a smaller birth cohort in the United States. </p>
<p>And now I would add to this that at the very most selective colleges that have just announced new financial aid plans, next year's (and the following year's) crush of applicants will be larger than ever. When colleges that are already acknowledged to be great colleges start reducing their net cost down to what the majority of families in the United States can afford, those colleges will receive more applications from all parts of the United States, and very likely from all over the world. </p>
<p>The Economist magazine published a brief article about these trends in April 2008. </p>
<p>University</a> admissions in America | Accepted | The Economist</p>
<p>^ tokenadult, </p>
<p>I generally think what you say here is right, and it explains why HYPS and a small handful of other schools at the top of the heap will continue to have strong, possibly record numbers of applicants. </p>
<p>But that still leaves the next cohort of schools---small private colleges and universities without the enormous endowments of HYPS---in a very precarious position right now. They were already falling behind HYPS in their ability to provide FA, even before the current economic downturn. The downturn has left them financially weaker---their endowments are down, annual giving is likely down, and more students (both current students and new applicants) will have more financial need than in recent years. Where are they going to find the money to meet that need? Also, with rare exceptions they are far more heavily dependent than HYPS on a regional applicant pool. Schools in the Northeast in particular are looking at sharp declines in the number of applicants from the New England and Mid-Atlantic regions that typically supply 2/3 or more of their student bodies. Yet, despite well-deserved reputations for academic quality, most simply haven't established the same kind of national and global brand identification as HYPS, making it more difficult for them to compete effectively for applicants from the growing regions of the country (generally the Southeast and Southwest) and internationals. </p>
<p>It's easy enough to say they should just cut prices or (what amounts to the same thing) offer more FA. But the fact is, they just don't have the money to do this without drastically slashing payrolls, i.e., shrinking the faculty and curriculum and swelling student/faculty ratios, thereby undercutting their principal selling point, academic quality in an intimate setting. In short, what's being put to the test here is the ongoing viability of their basic business model---the model of the small private LAC.</p>
<p>I have recently come across 2 small LACs that very recently built new housing so that they could increase freshmen enrollement by about 200. If a small LAC of 1400 students did increase enrollment by 200 students I would think that would be financially very significant. You might recall, I believe it was a Time Mag. article which said that Beloit was impacted financially when about 34 freshmen did not show up. 200 extra students is nearly 6 times the number of no shows at Beloit. I do understand that the increased enrollment also increases expenses to some degree.</p>